quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

Some CWIF play testers found having to go thru the scrap units phase tedious (say, for the Barbarossa scenario) and wanted the whole issue of scrapping units optional. Please note, if you want the abiltiy to scrap units, you simply turn the option on. No big deal.

What I remember from the playtest process is that what was tedious was to redo the scrapping process each time, and Chris provided an Automated Scrapping process, he did not remove scrapping. Scrapping was always part of CWiF.

quote:

So, what you are saying is that the scrapping option should be titled: Manual or Automatic. I can live with that, BUT ...
Whenever I hear the word 'automatic' I cringe (huddle into a ball in fear). That is because I have learned that automatic means two things: (1) the programmer has to implement the feature, taking into consideration all the details brilliantly becasue if he doesn't (2) the program does things that I, as a user, consider really stupid.

The conditions under which the AI Assistant scraps (does not scrap) planes would have to be very clear.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

Options 72 through 76 were introduced in recent (vis-a-vis circa CWIF) add-ons. I do not currently have copies of Cruisers in Flames, Convoys in Flames, Politics in Flames, America in Flames, and Patton in Flames (they are suppose to be on their way to me). Until I do, I do not want to commit myself to doing something about which I know next to nothing. Once I have an opportunity to reveiw them personally, and thoroughyl, I will be able to make an informed decision. Until that time though, I have them down as ?.

If you have RAW7, you already have all the rules for CoiF & CLiF, there is nothing more in the kits you'll receive. You only miss the countersheets. You can see reduced copies of those countersheets at my website.
Regards
Patrice

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mziln
22.4 Optional Rules and Units

X.X.1 Divisions Option 2
Each division type goes into a new force pool. ARM and MECH divisions count against Armour gearing limits. CAV divisions count against cavalry gearing limits. Other divisions count against infantry gearing limits. Divisions are not restricted from being built ahead (see 13.6.5 Building units) if their equivalent corps type is still available in the force pools, and vice versa.

X.X.2 Artillery Option 3
If you are playing with this rule, there is a new gearing limit class - artillery.

X.X.3 Fortification Units Option 5
Fortification units are a new gearing limit class.

X.X.4 Supply units Option 6
Supply units are a new gearing limit class.

X.X.5 Engineer Divisions Option 7
Some engineer divisions (ENGs) are motorized and receive the benefits of being motorized. Some other engineers have the same special abilities as MAR units. You can play engineers as combat and/or construction engineers.

X.X.6 Territorials Option 10
Some major powers and minor countries have one or more territorial units available in the force pools from the start of the game.

X.X.7 Synthetic oil plants Option 14
The synthetic oil units represent plants designed to turn coal into fuel oil. Such plants were built extensively by Germany during the war but also to some extent by Japan.

X.X.8 Frogmen Option 24
The Italian frogmen and Japanese and Commonwealth mini-sub units are the same unit type for all purposes. We call them all “frogmen”.

X.X.9 Amphibious Units Option 26
Amphibious units (AMPH) form a new force pool. They count against ship gearing limits.

X.X.10 Japanese Command Conflict Option 64
Throughout the war, the Imperial Japanese navy fought a series of bloody disputes with the Imperial Japanese army. They fought over everything from resource allocation to the strategic direction of the war. You would need 2 Japanese players to reflect that result but this rule will complicate the Japanese player’s life a little.

X.X.11 Ski Troop Divisions Option 65

X.X.12 The Queens Option 66 (Rule 22.4.4 The Queens Option 66 (SiF))
This unit represents two converted passenger liners (Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth) that were justly famous for their speed. You use it like a faster than usual TRS except that it cannot transport HQ-A, ARM, MECH, artillery or aircraft units. The Queens can replace a TRS unit from the start of a scenario.

X.X.13 City Based Volunteers’ Option 67
There are several units with the name of a city printed on their back in AfA, AiF, LiF and PoliF. These counters represent volunteers who fought or potentially would have fought for the major power whose background color the counters share. As examples, Vlassov was a successful Soviet general who defected to the Germans after his capture, the SS recruited personnel from the occupied areas and Japan used some Chinese and potentially would have used some Indians or Siberians as well.

X.X.14 Siberians Option 68 (Rule 22.4.7 Siberians Option 68 (AfA))
Each Siberian unit can replace a Soviet INF unit from the start of a scenario. In 1939 games, they must start on the Asian or Pacific map. In other games, they can start anywhere. You decide after set up which units, if any, you wish to replace. Put any Siberians you don’t start on the map into the INF force pool.

X.X.15 Naval Supply Units Option 69
Naval supply units Upgrade and downgrade minor ports.

X.X.16 Guards Banner Armies Option 70
The 8 Russian armies included in LiF are Guards Banner Armies. These are kept as reserves, but do not arrive when other reserves do.

X.X.17 Chinese Warlords Option 71
The Chinese warlord units represent forces loyal to one particular Warlord in China rather than the central Government

X.X.18 Partisan HQs Option 72
Tito and Zoya K. are treated the same as any other HQI except that you cannot purchase them.

X.X.19 Heavy weapons units Option 73
During the war, most countries upgraded their units with heavier weapons in an attempt to gain an advantage over their opponents.

X.X.20 Air Cavalry Option 74
Air Cav (ACV) units are a new unit type.

X.X.21 Light Cruisers & Rough Seas Option 75
The light cruisers in CliF replace those provided in World in Flames and depict every CL and CAA of WWII.

X.X.22 Convoys in Flames Option 76
This SiF option introduces several units that represent in greater detail the naval battles conducted against merchant marine shipping, especially battles by and against submarines.

Yes, I left out A-bombs and V weapons.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

Before reaching final agreement with the artist on how the map and units will be done. I expect to give this forum group the opportunity to view them both in a "nearly final" form. If you guys don't like them, then they will need more work.

Who is "the artist" ?
I asked some questions about the team, and who is the team, and about Robert Crandall's involvement, without having answers.
Is there a problem with this ?

Putting "the team" together is a work in progress. I do not want to commit anyone before I have had a chance to "talk" with them first. So, rather than give you a partial answer, I just let the question hang until I could give you a full answer. But since you asked again ...

The partial answer is that I will be doing all the coding. Chris is answering all my questions about CWIF as I pose them to him. I am trying not to deluge him with the zillions of little questions that come up as I read through his code.

As to the rest of the team, I will hold off on names until we are further down the road. I might mention, that to me, the members of this forum are an integral part of the development process. In the project plan I put together this weekend I have the forum members scheduled to contribute to the design of every important aspect of MWIF. I will also be drawing most, if not all, of the play testers from the people herein.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
The conditions under which the AI Assistant scraps (does not scrap) planes would have to be very clear.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft
Scrapping planes is one of those repetitive gut-twisting decisions with which WiF abounds.

Do I scrap this newly destroyed fighter? But then I'll lose the other on-map unit protecting <important target>. But if I don't then in the production phase I might have to randomly rebuild this unit with its pissy attack factor of 3 instead of the new super-duper units with an attack factor of 7 which just arrived in my force pool... aaargh... decisions... decisions

IMO scrapping has to stay. I could see the information collection being automated but not the actual decision making process. So when you lose (say) a fighter then at the end of the combat you get a dialog box saying:

You have just lost a Sopwith Pup.
The Sopwith Pup has an attack factor of 1
Your on-map fighter force (including units on production spiral) has an average attack factor of 1.2
Your production pool has an average attack factor of 0.9
There are 6 Sopwith Pups in the countermix.
Three are in the force pool (including the one you just lost)
Two are in production, due in Mar/Apr 1917 and Jul/Aug 1917
One is on the map at Chateau-Thierry.

Do you want to scrap the Sopwith Pup?


BTW, did you ever see the WWI version of WiF ? [:)]

quote:

The averages that you described have the limitation that averages always have: they are a single number that represents a group. When a group is small, it is almost always better to look at the individual elements of the group instead of the average. [Sorry, I use to teach statistics and my tendency to lecture is quasi-ingrained.]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

The averages that you described have the limitation that averages always have: they are a single number that represents a group. When a group is small, it is almost always better to look at the individual elements of the group instead of the average. [Sorry, I use to teach statistics and my tendency to lecture is quasi-ingrained.]

I agree with this about averages (I studied statistics too), but I love what Greyshaft wrote (and I'd love to see a WWI version of WiF FE & MWiF).
To make things more useful, you may display the standard deviance as well as the average ? What do you think ? You wouldn't label it as Std Dev, but you could put : Average 5,3 combat factors +/- 0,7 for example. Standard deviance may not exactly be the +/- error, but it looks and means alike.
Patrice

quote:

I still like just showing the players all the units. Letting them sort the planes by one of the combat factors would be a nice touch. For example, "Sort in descendng order by tactical bombing factor." That way you could see how many planes in the force pool are better/worse that the one you are thinking about scrapping. That is usually the major criterion for my decisions when scrapping a plane.

quote:

I agree with this about averages (I studied statistics too), but I love what Greyshaft wrote (and I'd love to see a WWI version of WiF FE & MWiF).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yohan
The Canadian Wargame Group did put out a WW1 version of WiF that was approved by ADG

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yohan
The Canadian Wargame Group did put out a WW1 version of WiF that was approved by ADGI think it was called "Fatal Alliances". I never played it but I thought the idea had potential

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mziln
42 options and still rising. [sm=dizzy.gif]

quote:

Example 1: Naval Air Combat (11.5.9 Naval air combat)

To choose this type of naval combat you must have an aircraft unit or undamaged CV included and the weather in the sea zone you are flying to must not be storm or blizzard

If you are using Option 56: Carrier Plane Units <= this would link to Example 2

The steps in Naval Air Combat consist of:
....Air-to-Air Combat, the air units that are passed through now face;
....Anti-Aircraft Fire, the air units that survive press on to The Air-to-Sea Attack.
....Total the air-to-sea factors of each side’s surviving air units included in the round.
....Adjust each sides total air-to-sea factors of surviving bombers due to the Weather in the Air;

quote:

Example 2: Option 56: Carrier Plane Units (Rule 14.4.1 Carrier plane units Option 56 (CVPiF/SiF))

Naval Air Combats

This requires a carrier plane on the CV. A face down carrier plane can take part in a naval air combat but only if it is flying from an undamaged CV in that area. Carrier planes can never fly a naval air mission from a CV into another sea zone.

You first have to decide which of your FTRs and if you are using and carrier planes will be flying as bombers and which will be flying as fighters. Carrier planes on damaged CVs do not participate in naval air combats.

CWIF	MWIF 1	Option	                WIF FE Rules Reference
NA	NA	1. African & Scandinavian maps	2.1.1, 2.1.4, 2.4.2
Yes	Yes	2. Divisions	2.2, 2.3.1, 9.5, 11.4.5, 11.14, 11.15, 11.16.1, 11.16.5, 22.4.1
Yes	Yes	3. Artillery	2.2, 2.3.1, 11.2, 11.5.9, 11.5.10, 11.8, 11.9, 11.11.2, 11.16.4, 11.16.5, 16.1, 16.3, 22.4.2
NA	NA	4. Pacific & Asian map ZOCs 	2.2
Yes	Yes	5. Fortifications	2.3.1, 4.2, 11.16.1, 22.4.9
Yes	Yes	6. Supply units	2.3.1, 2.4.2, 11.11.2, 11.12, 22.4.10
Yes	Yes	7. Engineers	2.3.1, 11.11.2, 22.2, 22.4.1
Yes	Yes	8. Flying boats 	2.3.1, 8.2.9
Yes	Yes	9. Ships In Flames units	2.3.1, 4.1.4, 4.2, 11.3, 11.5.8, 13.3.2, 13.5.1, 13.6.1, 13.6.5, 14.4.1, 22.4.7
Yes	Yes	10. Territorials	11.16.5, 2.4.2, 4.2, 17.3, 18.1, 19.4, 22.4.5
Yes	Yes	11. Limited overseas supply	2.4.2, 22.4.11
Yes	Yes	12. Limited supply across straits 	2.4.2, 11.10, 13.6.1
Yes	Yes	13. HQ supply and support	2.4.3, 11.16.3
Yes	Yes	14. Synthetic oil plants	4.2, 13.5.1, 22.4.11
Yes	Yes	15. Off-city reinforcement 	4.2
No	Yes	16. Recruitment limits 	4.2
Yes	Yes	17. HQ movement 	11.11.2
Yes	Yes	18. Bottomed ships 	11.2
Yes	Yes	19. In the presence of the enemy 	11.4.2
No	Yes	20. Surprised ZOCs 	2.2
No	No	21. Task forces (hidden)	11.4.3
No	Yes	22. Bounce combat 	14.3.3
Partially	Yes	23. V-weapons and Atomic bombs	11.7.1, 11.8
Partially	Yes	24. Frogmen	22.4.3
Yes	Yes	25. SCS transport	11.4.5, 11.14
Yes	Yes	26. Amphibious rules 	11.13, 11.14, 22.4.12
Yes	Yes	27. Optional CV searching	11.5.5
Yes	Yes	28. Pilots	4.2, 11.2, 11.5.8, 11.5.11, 13.6.5, 13.6.7, 13.7.1, 14.6, 19.1, 22.4.19
No	Yes	29. Food in Flames 	13.6.1
Yes	Yes	30. Factory construction and destruction 	11.7, 13.6.8, 22.2, 22.4.11
Yes	Yes	31. Saving build points and resources	11.7, 13.1, 13.3.2, 13.5.1, 13.6.3, 13.6.8
Yes	Yes	32. Carpet bombing 	11.8, 14.6
Yes	Yes	33. Tank busters 	11.9, 11.16.4
Yes	Yes	34. Motorized movement rates 	11.11.2
Yes	Yes	35. Bomber (& no paradrop) ATRs 	11.12, 11.15, 11.18.1
Yes	Yes	36. Large ATRs	11.12, 11.18.1, 11.18.4
Yes	Yes	37. Railway movement bonus 	11.11.2
Yes	Yes	38. Defensive shore bombardment 	11.16.2, 15.1
No	Yes	39. Blitz Bonus 	11.16.1, 11.16.5
Yes	Yes	40. Chinese attack weakness	11.16.5
Yes +	Yes +	41. Fractional odds 	11.16.5
Yes	Yes	42. Allied combat friction 	11.16.5
Yes	Yes	43. 2D10 Land CRT 	11.16.6
Yes	Yes	44. Extended aircraft rebasing 	11.17
Yes	Yes	45. Variable reorganization costs	13.6.3
Yes +	Yes +	46. Partisans 	13.1, 13.7.4
Yes	Yes	47. Isolated reorganization limits 	13.5
Yes	Yes	48. Oil	5, 13.5.1, 21
No	Yes	49. Hitler’s War ()	13.3.2
No	Yes	50. USSR-Japan compulsory peace 	13.7.3
No	Yes	51. En-route aircraft interception 	14.2.1
Yes 	Yes	52. Night missions 	14.2.1, 14.2.3, 22.4.2
Yes	Yes	53. Twin-engined fighters 	14.3.2
Yes	Yes	54. Fighter-bombers 	14.3.2
Yes	Yes	55. Outclassed fighters 	14.3.2
Yes	Yes	56. Carrier planes	4.2, 11.2, 11.5.2, 11.5.8, 11.5.11, 11.18.4, 13.5.1, 13.6.5, 14.3.2, 14.4,  14.4.1, 14.8, 16.2
No	Yes	57. Limited aircraft interception 	14.2.1
No	Yes	58. Internment 	14.6.4, 19.1
Partially	Yes	59. Flying bombs	14.6, 14.7
Partially	Yes	60. Kamikazes 	14.6, 14.8
Yes	Yes	61. Offensive Chits 	16, (16.1 - 16.5)
No	Yes	62. The Ukraine 	19.12
No	Yes	63. Intelligence 	22.1
No	Yes	64. Japanese command conflict 	22.3
Yes	Yes	65. Ski troops	22.4.1
Yes	Yes	66. The Queens	22.4.4
Mostly	Yes	67. City Based Volunteers 	4.1.2, 22.4.8
Yes	Yes	68. Siberians	22.4.7
Partially	Yes	69. Naval supply units	22.4.13
Partially	Yes	70. Guards Banner Armies	22.4.14
No	Yes	71. Chinese Warlords	22.4.15
No	Yes	72. Partisan HQs	22.4.16
Partially	No	73. Heavy Weapons Units	22.4.17
Partially	No	74. Air Cav	22.4.18
No	Yes	75. Cruiser in Flames	13.5.1, 22.4.6
No	Yes	76. Convoys in Flames	19.4, 22.4.19

quote:

Leaders in Flames
Politics in Flames

quote:

Partially No 73. Heavy Weapons Units 22.4.17
Partially No 74. Air Cav 22.4.18

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

Leaders in Flames
Politics in Flames

Please, tell me that you will keep the extra counters needing no new rule (already present in the MWiF countermix, such as the late war normal counters for every major power, especially France & Italy of CS25 (LiF), and the late war planes, the MIL and extra soviet, US & german HQ, the city based volunteers from CS30 (PoliF)), and that when you say that MWiF will not include PoliF & LiF you are talking about the specific new rule guided new counters. That is, no leaders, and no extra political rules nor political counters. pffffewwww long sentence....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

Partially No 73. Heavy Weapons Units 22.4.17
Partially No 74. Air Cav 22.4.18

I'm so sorry you do not include these ones (basically, counters from AiF / PatiF).

This lowers the possibilities to go to the bitter end (play past '45), because the regular countermixes of WiF and all its add-on without the AiF / PatiF counters do not go past 1945-46. there's nothing more to produce in 1946, and it is bad.
If you add the units of AiF / PatiF to the WiF countermix you have planes, land units & ships to play up to 1952.
I was quite disappointed with this when I played well into 1946 with CWiF. Basicaly there is no more Production Phase.
Even if you only add the planes & ships of AiF / PatiF it is already better.

It's even better because it also adds some planes to the 39-45 force pools and it lowers the possibility of advance building all the '45 force pool in early '44 (sometimes even late '43) for the CW and sometimes Germany (because they have more planes in the force pool, so they have more difficulties to build them all and advance build the next ones), which is very good too.

It would be easy to add the planes & ships of AiF / PatiF to the MWiF game, I can provide you with the CSV containing them all.

quote:

CWIF optional rules that were discontinued in WIF FE and will not be included in MWIF 1:
Separate die rolls on land combat table,
Territorial conquest, and
Vlassov (replaced by city based volunteers).

quote:

The decision of what to include and what to exclude is guaranteed to disappoint almost everyone to some degree.