RE: How waste works... (Full Version)

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Mr. Z -> RE: How waste works... (7/14/2005 4:46:54 AM)


quote:

Designers ought to have explained more about it in the manuel, or simply chosen a more suitable term, so as to make us less inclined to argue about it.

We will try to explain it more thoroughly in the manual errata/update.



Hard Sarge -> RE: How waste works... (7/14/2005 2:52:51 PM)

Hi Mogami
the hassle with most of your posts on this subject, is you got a side that is not makeing much, and so does not get hit with much waste

my game as France, I got more waste then you do on the first turn of the game (let alone, once I take some land or improve my cities)

HARD_Sarge



mogami -> RE: How waste works... (7/14/2005 9:36:05 PM)

Hi, I am running Russia in scenario that began in 1792.
Russia has not fought a battle outside Russia the date is June 1800
Russia has the most cash (2k) only 1 other Nation is over 1k (France)
Russian Army has grown from 330k in 1792 to 560k in 1800 (with 50k in pool)
Russia has maintained 100 percent readiness
Russia has raised training level from below 5 to 12 (Austria has 12.7) 5 countries are below 7 (Spain is below 4)
Russian morale over 4.75 (training level)
Feudalism level 12 (down from 50)

I have done nothing but develop and scored over 400 points so far. (ahead of 3 Nations)
If I unleashed the army I could score points quickly.



mogami -> RE: How waste works... (7/15/2005 10:29:32 AM)

Hi, Well it is Apr 1802. Russia is in 3rd place.
I have never fought a battle outside Russia.
Russia has the highest training level 14.5 Spain in 1st place is a 4.5
Russia has the most wealth
The Russian Army is now over 600k organized in 3 Army with 2 Corps each (plus attached units)
I think I will do away with the last bit of fuedalism next year (national morale is around 700 so it can absorb the hit)
Russia has even aquired new territory (2 provincens) as a result of defeating invaders Sweden invaded with 200k troops lost around 50k and surrendered when Russian Alliance members Britain and Austria captured Stockholm. Russia took 1 province and liberated Swedish controled areas of Finland and parts of Poland.
I do nothing but adjust my production everyturn and develop. It is getting quite expensive now to do any upgrades (they require a lot of labor and textiles) I have to spend a few turns saving up material. However now that the war is over I can spend more on developing and less on the Army.
The present system has allowed Russia to catch and pass Britain in industrial output. Raise and train the most advanced Military (I think I am number two in total strength but I don't have a lot of milita units. I place one in each city but the Field Army is composed of good units. In the one detailed battle the Russian units crushed the Swedes (and the Swedes are one of the more advanced)
I think I could take first place now simply by marching down to Constantinople and forcing another surrender out of Turkey. (Already clobbered them once when they came north)
I still don't see where the system is not working. Anyone else trying this and playing more then a few turns?

[image]local://upfiles/944/519B7B2B53C34E99AE5A65CC6F9E0AAE.jpg[/image]



Uncle_Joe -> RE: How waste works... (7/15/2005 11:29:36 AM)

quote:

If I unleashed the army I could score points quickly.


quote:

Well it is Apr 1802. Russia is in 3rd place.


I think this says it all. You are pursuing an economic strategy. You are, by all rights, swamping the AI opponents in sheer econ. Yet you are in 3rd place.

As you stated (and I agree), if you unleashed the army, you could crank in glory. I submit that had you done so more or less from the get-go rather than trying to invest in the econ that you could easily be in first place, not third. The resources you spent bettering your econ could easily have translated to more glory through conquest.

Also, not to disparage your accomplishments in the game, but the getting ahead of the AI by using 'x' strategy does not mean that it is a good strategy. I think in most games, a good human player can beat whatever AI using almost any strategy unless the AI is given some pretty healthy bonuses. What difficulty level are you playing on?

Again, I'm not trying to say that its impossible to grow your econ...obviously its not. But the cost for doing so (resources and opportunity) are better spent on military units, upgrades, and campaigns if you want to earn glory. The point is the same as its been all thread long...the cost for investing in the econ is not commeasurate with the pay-off in most cases.



mogami -> RE: How waste works... (7/15/2005 8:04:19 PM)

Hi, While I could have just sent the Army off gathering points I think it important to note that first place is currently held by a Nation with a training level of 4.5
Russia has a 14.5 The nation that has done the most conquering Sweden is a 12.75 however Sweden droped from 1900 points to under 300 in less then 1 year. (When she had to fight everyone at once.)
Nations do not wage war and then build their industry. You first have the industry in place and after it has provided the means you wage war.
My current game still has 5 years to run. Victory does not go to the nation who has been in first the longest but to the one in first at the end. Because I have spent 10 years developing Russia I could if I chose embark on a war of conquest and maintain the Army.
The Russian economy can support the Russian military better then Sweden was able to do. (All the other nations are on the verge of going broke)

In multiplayer games the best strategies will all revolve around forming combinations. It is Alliances that matter. I don't think anyone will be left alone long enough to do nothing but develop. But then the game begins after the period where these nations have been develping.
The war has already begun. THe Allies won WWII not because they were able to develop during the war but because they had already done so before it began. (They just required time to gather and use the output)
I think it important to realize that in COG the World War has already begun.



mogami -> RE: How waste works... (7/15/2005 10:14:17 PM)

Hi, OK I am going to start a game as France ("for what we are about to recieve make us truely greatful")
I have been avoiding even booting the French up because of the amount of work required to play France.
I'll will post first reports in a few minutes after I analyze French starting conditions



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