wrong provinces in Kingdom of Bavaria (Full Version)

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marirosa -> wrong provinces in Kingdom of Bavaria (7/18/2005 4:38:22 PM)

Playing SPA in a 1792 game, i dowed Bavaria and start besieging Babaria and Nuremburg (Tyrolia was already austrian conquered). Of course theirs armies tried to figth me back but i destroyed them and keep besieging.

Few turns later a new army of Bavaria attacked me. I surveyed the map and, surprise!!! France now have a new protectorate. It consist of the provinces of Palatinate, Kleves and Berg and are those troops, under the flag and name of Bavarian Army what are attacking me. Of course, i am also at war with France.

I've checked eu2prov.txt in 1792 folder and supposedly Palatinate, Berg and Kleves are uniprovincial minors so i don't know how the game ended making this error.

PD: is the same game where i do not recieve militia from Colonial Regiments upgrades.




kerguelen -> RE: wrong provinces in Kingdom of Bavaria (7/18/2005 7:17:18 PM)

This seems to be correct. You also have to check provstrt.txt. Some provinces of minors are listed there as conquered by other minors (among them Palatinat, Kleve and Berg) (Tyrol was not Austrian conquered, it is Austrian inherited since 1363/64, Bavaria only had it in the early Middle Ages - when Austria proper was a part of Bavaria as well - and from 1805 to 1814).
btw I think it's a bit to much to give Bavaria all three of them. It makes Bavaria to big in the West. Why not give them only Palatinat (as the original country of this branch of the Wittelsbachs) and give either Berg or Kleve to Prussia (to get some western expansion dynamics for Prussia - these holdings were important in Prussias decision to occupy Hannover in 1805/06 (and the subsequently worse relations with the U.K.)



Mr. Z -> RE: wrong provinces in Kingdom of Bavaria (7/19/2005 1:50:55 AM)


quote:

btw I think it's a bit to much to give Bavaria all three of them. It makes Bavaria to big in the West. Why not give them only Palatinat (as the original country of this branch of the Wittelsbachs) and give either Berg or Kleve to Prussia (to get some western expansion dynamics for Prussia - these holdings were important in Prussias decision to occupy Hannover in 1805/06 (and the subsequently worse relations with the U.K.)

We though Bavaria should also have some lower Rhine provinces, as they had recently inherited Juelich and Mark (Juelich is a part of our Kleves). It seems a bit wrong therefore to hand over the province called "Berg" (even though it includes a bit more than Berg proper) to Prussia, though I agree it would have been nice in retrospect to give Prussia something to represent its Western lands.

I like the large Bavaria--Bavaria was possibly on its way to rivalling Prussia for dominance of Germany before Napoleon stepped in.



EarlPembroke -> RE: wrong provinces in Kingdom of Bavaria (7/19/2005 4:23:34 AM)

Speaking of Bavaria ... I have conquered a province of Bavaria when it was a Spanish protectorate. It now appears as one of my provinces. I won the war against Spain and made them liberate the other provinces of Bavaria. I would like to give back Nuremburg, but there seems to be no way to liberate it so it will go back to being part of Bavaria. Also, it would seem appropriate that after I forced Spain to liberate Bavaria, that Bavaria would be somewhat favorable to me. As it is, I'm only somewhere in the middle (as Sweden) while they heavily favor Prussia and Austria. I understand how that should be their normal setting , but there should be some relationship benefit to having liberated them.



kerguelen -> RE: wrong provinces in Kingdom of Bavaria (7/19/2005 5:48:48 AM)

quote:

I like the large Bavaria--Bavaria was possibly on its way to rivalling Prussia for dominance of Germany before Napoleon stepped in.


Prussia's rival for dominance in Germany was Austria (or more correct for that time: Austria's rival was Prussia . Bavaria was usually not more than Austria's sidekick (against Prussia; if the Habsburgs were making war with France, Bavaria joined France of course - remember Blenheim). Frederick II. even had to rescue Bvaria from being swallowed by Austria, when the last Bavarian Wittelsbach died and the Palatinat branch would have traded away Bavaria for the Austrian Netherlands.



Naomi -> RE: wrong provinces in Kingdom of Bavaria (7/19/2005 11:37:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kerguelen

quote:

I like the large Bavaria--Bavaria was possibly on its way to rivalling Prussia for dominance of Germany before Napoleon stepped in.


Prussia's rival for dominance in Germany was Austria (or more correct for that time: Austria's rival was Prussia . Bavaria was usually not more than Austria's sidekick (against Prussia; if the Habsburgs were making war with France, Bavaria joined France of course - remember Blenheim). Frederick II. even had to rescue Bvaria from being swallowed by Austria, when the last Bavarian Wittelsbach died and the Palatinat branch would have traded away Bavaria for the Austrian Netherlands.

Heh, a history lesson.



marirosa -> RE: wrong provinces in Kingdom of Bavaria (7/19/2005 11:45:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kerguelen

This seems to be correct. You also have to check provstrt.txt. Some provinces of minors are listed there as conquered by other minors (among them Palatinat, Kleve and Berg)


Thanks, did't knew what was the purpose of that provstrt.txt file. So it tell the provinces conquered by minors, interesting.

About Bavaria then, to create the Kingdom of Bavaria should i have Bavaria, Nuremburg and Tyrolia or i need also Palatinate, Kleves and Berg?


quote:

ORIGINAL: kerguelen
(Tyrol was not Austrian conquered, it is Austrian inherited since 1363/64, Bavaria only had it in the early Middle Ages - when Austria proper was a part of Bavaria as well - and from 1805 to 1814).


By conquered i was meaning in my game AUS just conquered Tyrolia (was french before) while i was trying to make the Kingdom of Bavaria. I've signed a 3 years alliance with AUS so i can't get Tyrolia by now.





Mr. Z -> RE: wrong provinces in Kingdom of Bavaria (7/19/2005 5:28:03 PM)


quote:

Bavaria was usually not more than Austria's sidekick

Ah, but they were beginning to act independently during the last years of the HRE.

quote:

Frederick II. even had to rescue Bvaria from being swallowed by Austria, when the last Bavarian Wittelsbach died and the Palatinat branch would have traded away Bavaria for the Austrian Netherlands.

Heh, good point[:D] Interesting to wonder what would have happened if he'd succeeded.



Mr. Z -> RE: wrong provinces in Kingdom of Bavaria (7/19/2005 5:30:39 PM)


quote:

About Bavaria then, to create the Kingdom of Bavaria should i have Bavaria, Nuremburg and Tyrolia or i need also Palatinate, Kleves and Berg?

If you're trying to create Bavaria after 1806 (Napoleonic Bavaria), then the former list. If you're trying to create Bavaria before 1797, then you'll need all of them, except Tyrolia.



marirosa -> RE: wrong provinces in Kingdom of Bavaria (7/20/2005 5:53:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Z


quote:

About Bavaria then, to create the Kingdom of Bavaria should i have Bavaria, Nuremburg and Tyrolia or i need also Palatinate, Kleves and Berg?

If you're trying to create Bavaria after 1806 (Napoleonic Bavaria), then the former list. If you're trying to create Bavaria before 1797, then you'll need all of them, except Tyrolia.


Sorry i don't know what "former" means. The 3 i listed first?

Also, what happens between 1797 and 1806? can't it be created? In my game is 1799 and i managed to conquer all except Tyrolia that is keep bouncing from hand to hand (now is Britain conquered).



EarlPembroke -> RE: wrong provinces in Kingdom of Bavaria (7/20/2005 11:01:04 AM)

Actually I go back on one point I said before. If protectorates are friendly arrangements, not forced on someone, then it may not make as much sense for them to like me after I "liberate" them. But at least I think it should give some benefit to your relations with them. After all, you didn't conquer their land and keep it. [;)]

But I do still wish I had a way to give back Nuremburg to Bavaria. Though it provides a good supply base in the center of the map, I would rather give it back to Bavaria and hopefully have all of Bavaria love me for it. [:D]



marirosa -> RE: wrong provinces in Kingdom of Bavaria (7/20/2005 11:51:25 AM)

Well, it depends on many external issues as well.

Maybe sometimes it is best to be a satellite of a great power, than be thrown naked in the middle of the circus with very big hungry lions roaming. Shouldn't they hate you a lot for that?

Or maybe they were happy forming part of Spain, and having the spanish laws and taxes and now you force them to "be free and independent" and they now have more unemployement, not enough farms to feed all or a worse social care system... or most probably some old local aristocrats retook the power.

Even some maquiavelical minded bavarians maybe are wondering why did you forced Spain to freed them. To annex as you did with Nuremburg? To sell them to Russia in exchange of Finland?

I think is fair that if you change the status of a nation, such nation will not like you a lot and will like more others that are subsidiceing or charm them.



Mr. Z -> RE: wrong provinces in Kingdom of Bavaria (7/20/2005 4:55:02 PM)


quote:

Sorry i don't know what "former" means. The 3 i listed first?

Yes, the three you listed first.

quote:

Also, what happens between 1797 and 1806? can't it be created? In my game is 1799 and i managed to conquer all except Tyrolia that is keep bouncing from hand to hand (now is Britain conquered).

Basically Napoleon gobbled up what we call "Kleves" after 1797. Oh, and also our "Palatinate"--forgot about that! So 1797-1806 Bavaria would just be Bavaria, Nuremberg, and Berg.



marirosa -> RE: wrong provinces in Kingdom of Bavaria (7/20/2005 8:42:25 PM)

Now in my game is Jan 1799 (was the 1792 scenary, duration 10 years, most glory at finish wins). I conquered Bavaria, Nuremburg, Palatinate, Kleves and Berg. Tyrolia is still british.

How is NONE of such 5 provinces are listed in the nations log? I can't free them so i can't make the Kingdom of Bavaria.



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