Any suggestions of good ancient world strategy games? (Full Version)

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Brian Dickson -> Any suggestions of good ancient world strategy games? (7/22/2005 2:12:09 PM)


Hi, I used to be an avid wargamer in the 80s, and recently I've had an urge to get into strategy games again. I've got a few titles such as Europa Universalis 2, Rome Total war (yet to play!) and Age Of Empires 2. To be honest from my experience I don't really much like RTS games that much. It's kind of entertaining to watch your army of little men marching across a digital landscape, but I just don't like the idea of racing against the clock to build a huge army. So I tend to prefer either turn based games, or real time games that don't place too much emphasis on mouse hand speed. And I have an interest in the ancient world era, So my question is as to what the best "grand strategy" games of ancient times are available (excluding Rome Total War, the obvious pick) I've done a bit of surfing on the net, and I've seen a few candidates that could be interesting such as

Gates Of troy
Pax Romana
Great Battles series (of Caesar , Alexander)
Alexander
Tin Soldiers(Caesar , Alexander)

Unfortunately "Pax Romana" seems to get some pretty rank reviews, although the main gripe seems to be about bugs (which surely must have been lessened somewhat by the patch?) However the subject matter looks quite interesting, and judging from the screens and gameplay despriptions it seesm to be quite similar to a boardgame called Republic Of Rome I used to play. "Alexander" seems too much like Age Of Empires 2 , which I wasn't too keen on. But I'm still open to persuasion on that one. So could anyone reccomend a fairly deep strategy game about ancient times? (Romans, Greeks, Abyssinians I'm not fussy). it doesn't neccesarily have to be miltary, political or even trading games would suit, just as long as there's depth of gameplay. I generally prefer strategic to tactical games, but again, I'm fairly open minded on the matter. Better a good tactical games than a bad strategic one.

My mother always taught me if I wasn't sure about something ask someone! To be honest it's not the money I object to so much when getting a new game , it's the time required to get into it. Hope someone can help!



Terminus -> RE: Any suggestions of good ancient world strategy games? (7/22/2005 2:22:23 PM)

You should give Rome: Total War a try. It's an amazing game.



Deride -> RE: Any suggestions of good ancient world strategy games? (7/22/2005 9:09:26 PM)

I'm obviously biased, but I would be happy to provide some more details on Tin Soldiers. There is a demo of Alexander the Great available, and I suggest that you download a copy and try it out. It should give you a feel for how battles are played and generally what it is like to command your army.

Both Alexander and Caesar have the same basic game mechanics, but Caesar has an updated graphics engine and a non-linear campaign as well as the changes needed between fighting as the Greeks and Romans.

Deride



Sonny -> RE: Any suggestions of good ancient world strategy games? (7/23/2005 12:38:59 AM)

Pax Romana is a dog! Do not waste your time or money. Those of us who purchased it were left high and dry when the company said they were not going to work on it anymore. It has serious bugs to the point of being nearly unplayable. The same designer Phillipe Thibaut(sp?) is doing another game called Great Invasions (376-1066). He also designed the Europa Universalis board game which Paradox turned into a very enjoyable computer game (Europa Universalis II). I like it and I am not one for playing RTS games.

Spartan is pretty good as is Slitherine's first game Chariots of war.




Brian Dickson -> RE: Any suggestions of good ancient world strategy games? (7/23/2005 12:18:32 PM)

Cheers. Many people complain about the bugs in Pax Romana, judging from my net surfing, but are we talking about bugs that remain after the patch is applied? (Presumably) I can get it for a fiver at Amazon, so it's not the financial aspect.

I was actually seriously thinking about Tin Soldiers too, since after playing Side Meier's Gettysburg I reaised that minature wargaming ona computer is actually fun. I just hope the developers of Pax Romana aren't reading this ;)



Hertston -> RE: Any suggestions of good ancient world strategy games? (7/23/2005 1:28:07 PM)

The Tin Soldiers games are excellent. A great mix of a novel concept, playability (you'll only need to read the manual once) and good AI. What they are not, though, is "grand strategy". I honestly can't think of any half-decent ancient era PC game that fits that description. RTW certainly doesn't, an "empire building" game maybe, not "grand strategy" in the wargaming sense. The same is true of Spartan and Gates of Troy. Pax Romana looked very promising, but having surfed the forums for a while at the time I decided not to buy - it seemed way too flawed in general and buggy in particular, although I guess at a "bargain bin" price it might be worth a try.

The "Great Battles" games are good (if you can find them - they are rather long in the tooth.)They are straight copies of the GMT boargames, but again purely tactical rather than strategic. If you do - quick tip, to get Alexander to run you need to set the installer, and not just the installed executable to Windows 95 compatibility mode.

Not ancients, but if you enjoyed Sid Meiers "Gettysburg" you MUST try "Take Command 1861: Bull Run". It's real-time (but not an "RTS"), and is what "Sid Meier's Gettysburg 2" (or 3) should have been if Sid had ever got around to it. It's published by the History Channel (so its cheap, too), but don't hold that against it - it has nothing whatsoever to do with the previous Civil War game they published.



Brian Dickson -> RE: Any suggestions of good ancient world strategy games? (7/23/2005 2:38:07 PM)

Cheers, although I'm more interested in ancient times, I'll play anything as long as the game system is good. There's also Waterloo Napoleon's Last Battle available cheaply on Amazon which uses an enhanced version of the Gettysburg engine. I nearly bought it this morning but instead went for Combat Mission, a WW2 tactical game.

But returning to ancient times there's a newish game called Children Of The Nile, which seems to be a kind of city management game. My PC specs aren't currently up to it though , so it's on hold for the moment. I've played Caesar 2 years ago and enjoyed it, so I might be interested in Children Of the Nile. Although not most people's idea of "grand strategy", I suppose in some ways it is a bit like grand strategy.



EnPeaSea -> RE: Any suggestions of good ancient world strategy games? (7/25/2005 2:35:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brian Dickson

Cheers. Many people complain about the bugs in Pax Romana, judging from my net surfing, but are we talking about bugs that remain after the patch is applied? (Presumably) I can get it for a fiver at Amazon, so it's not the financial aspect.


Avoid Pax Romana. The patch helps a bit, but the game is still a mess. And the developer is out of business so there is no hope for additional post-release support.



ravinhood -> RE: Any suggestions of good ancient world strategy games? (7/25/2005 12:03:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

You should give Rome: Total War a try. It's an amazing game.


No, no no, not RTW, it's a worthless pos game, trust me, there's no strategy to it at all, it's so easy my 10 year old nephew can beat it. If you want a really great challenging game (older than dirt but great), find "Centurion Defender of Rome" an old dos game made back in the early 90's. The AI in that game and strategic and tactical play puts RTW to shame. All RTW has going for it is "graphics", nothing else, just graphics. You will find playing any nation to be a boring repetitive game of conquer the world "with ease", it's that bad.



Terminus -> RE: Any suggestions of good ancient world strategy games? (7/25/2005 12:10:48 PM)

Sorry, ravinhood, but I beg to differ. I played Centurion a lot back in the day, and Rome: Total War is a more than worthy successor to it.



ravinhood -> RE: Any suggestions of good ancient world strategy games? (7/25/2005 12:14:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Sorry, ravinhood, but I beg to differ. I played Centurion a lot back in the day, and Rome: Total War is a more than worthy successor to it.


Not by a long shot, the AI on the most difficult level will slaughter just about anyone. I don't think you played it at all. RTW is nowhere near the challenge that "Centurion Defender of Rome" is.



Terminus -> RE: Any suggestions of good ancient world strategy games? (7/25/2005 1:18:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

I don't think you played it at all.



Well, that's your problem then, itsn't it?



sol_invictus -> RE: Any suggestions of good ancient world strategy games? (7/25/2005 5:21:22 PM)

Yes, avoid Pax Romana like the plague. Great concept that failed miserably in the execution. Spartan/Gates of Troy is probably your best bet for an Ancient strategy title. Rome: Total War is a beautiful game but it has some nasty bugs still and the AI is weak. Hopefully the expansion will improve the overall gameplay. Look for Legion2 at the end of the year.

P.S. I didn't comment on tactical wargames as I thought you were looking for strategy titles. Check out the Tin Soldiers titles for tactical battles.



Warfare1 -> RE: Any suggestions of good ancient world strategy games? (7/25/2005 7:46:55 PM)

I would suggest Medieval Total War and many of the ancient mods for it such as "Fall of Rome" and "Hellenic Total War":

http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=40



Zakhal -> RE: Any suggestions of good ancient world strategy games? (7/25/2005 8:01:50 PM)

Civilization 3 complete that includes conquest add-on has plenty of ancient world scenarios (mesopotania, rome, fall of rome, inkas, samurai japan, etc). The scenarios are not typical civ games but enhanced with units and other stuff according to the scenario period. The AI is very tough and nowadays the game comes pretty cheap also (30 bucks).

quote:

There are nine full Conquest scenarios in the game, covering periods of history from early Mesopotamia to World War II in the Pacific. Three shorter tutorial conquests are also included.



Terminus -> RE: Any suggestions of good ancient world strategy games? (7/25/2005 11:50:18 PM)

As an addendum to my disagreement with ravinhood earlier, I just picked up Centurion from The Underdogs, and replayed it via DOSBox. It changes nothing for me: I did play Centurion in the old days (on my Amiga), but Rome: Total War knocks it on its butt cleanly.



usersatch -> RE: Any suggestions of good ancient world strategy games? (7/26/2005 1:59:34 AM)

Civ 3 is a great game, but even with the patches, the bi%ch still crashes on me, roughly every hour or so. I gave up on it long ago (and their tech support sucks, their only fallback is "load the patch").



ravinhood -> RE: Any suggestions of good ancient world strategy games? (7/26/2005 12:05:26 PM)

quote:

but Rome: Total War knocks it on its butt cleanly.


LOL, don't listen to this guy, he's clearly a RTW fanboi, it wouldn't take five minutes to see the difference between Centurion Defender of Rome and RTW's "challenge" level. Get Centurion, it's the better game of strategy and challenge over RTW any day. ;)



Terminus -> RE: Any suggestions of good ancient world strategy games? (7/26/2005 12:22:32 PM)

Well, if it comes down to it, why not get both? Centurion is available FOR FREE at Underdogs.



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