RE: When?

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brian brian -> RE: When? (1/3/2013 4:59:22 AM)
if you have read this thread for a long time, you would know that Steve has had help at times from Matrix/Slitherine, with them standing by for final polishing, as they are the publisher, not the author. perhaps they are abdicating on being a forceful editor, but this isn't a big revenue project destined for millions of dudes to play...it's the specialty high end (monster game) of an esoteric hobby (turn based historical games); a hobby that has kept it's adherents entertained for decades now, but has never made anyone very much money, nor had more than a couple firms (AH, ADG, ???) to last more than about a single decade of being in business. a few folks with serious skills in historical research and modeling of that and simulation design have been able to have enough of a career that they can share their skills with us over those decades, but that's about it. you can bang your head against those facts, as we all do, but you will only get a headache. Slitherine appears to be one of the few companies so far even trying to keep intelligent turn-based strategy gaming alive on new platforms, as everyone else flails around making shallow, cheap games hoping to strike Angry Bird paydirt. that has been encouraging to discover about the actual business behind this effort.

Patton_71 -> RE: When? (1/3/2013 9:12:38 AM)
Num, before you peer into a crystal ball and guess how old I am, perhaps you should look at my previous posts on this thread. Specifically, posts #2902, 2984, and 3051. The simple, easy question I have posed is...where is Matrix leadership? Answer, quite clearly is, nowhere to be found. There has been no direct response from any member of of the staff either in public or in private. But ABJ finally came out and said what I had already concluded: no support for their designer, Steve is on his own. I know Steve is a big boy, and has shown more preseverance on this than Job. I have nothing but respect for this man, especially considering what he has faced in his personal health issues, and a cold hearted non supportive Ogre like Matrix on top of that. I would not blame him for walking away tomorrow, and I actually would applaud it at this point. But the one fact that gets companies like Matrix's attention is when they get money, and when they lose it. My attempts to motivate Matrix by letting them know that their behaviour is costing them sales now and in the future is using that power of the consumer. If that offends you, tough. Its called capitalism, deal with it. Furthermore hypocrytes, I have seen endless pedantic and immature debates surrounding this game on idiotic topics as grammar and syntax, unit descriptions, and rules concerns. Many of those have gotten out of hand yet no one has blurted out the 'its just a game, relax' line in any of those. But heaven forbid, when someone actually expresses frustration at the inexcusable behaviour and bungling of the Matrix staff, the chill out and take some anger management assaults begin. Sounds like the legal team for Jerry Sandusky. One last point. ABJ's post that got me my answer began with calling the people who helped his precious family take that vacation insane. Is this someone you would want to give your business? Would you take your car to a mechanic who referred to you as the loser with the Ford Focus? Would you go to a barber who referred to you as that slob with the comb over? I certainly wouldn't. (even if it was true [;)] ) This is why Matrix will not get a dime out of me other than WIF. And thanks to ABJ, now that amount is in jeopardy. Think about it. If just 100 or so of us would vow not to purchase any Matrix product at all until WIF's release, we would have this in a month.

pzgndr -> RE: When? (1/3/2013 12:51:24 PM)
quote: The simple, easy question I have posed is...where is Matrix leadership? Simple, easy... and wrong. As brian brian pointed out, Matrix/Slitherine is a publisher of other people's independent work. They are not an employer with paid employees tasked with cranking out wargaming code under deadline. In a few cases there are staff actively involved in some game development, but this is an exception and not a rule. Perhaps there is a better way of funding/managing niche game development, considering the time/effort involved in pre-release development as well as post-release patches/enhancements. This isn't exactly World of Warcraft with millions of customers providing a steady stream of income for more, more, more. When you discover a more efficient and profitable business model for niche computer wargame development, please enlighten us all? quote: Think about it. If just 100 or so of us would vow not to purchase any Matrix product at all until WIF's release, we would have this in a month. Brilliant. Perhaps if 1,000 of us take your silly vow, then Steve might be done tomorrow. [8\|]

Klydon -> RE: When? (1/3/2013 1:38:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Patton_71 At last I have an answer. I have been waiting for some sign of the level of the support Steve has been receiving from Matrix. The simple answer is: NONE. ABJ unoquivically stated that Steve, not Matrix, is driving this project. Per ABJ: "Therefore, Steve controls the project and drives it forward on his schedule. If he was a member of a company publishing the game it would have been killed long ago. The fact that Steve is the company authoring the software means it will keep moving along provided he does not pass away." This absolutely confirms what I have suspected all along. Matrix, as a company, does not care when, or even if it is completed. This comes directly from a member of the Matrix staff. This also confirms that Steve, and only Steve, has been actively working on this project from the get-go. ABJ stated this so clearly himself in the above quote. Interpreted another way, Matrix does not care about keeping its customers (especially those as passionate as WIFers are) informed. Also, it can be interpreted as an example of the callous lack of concern for Steve. "Go ahead and keep working like a dog Steve, we aren't going to help you one bit, even if you 'pass away'. To ABJ and all Matrix staff: Go straight to hell, do not pass go, do not collect $200. For abandoning your one and only programmer, burn for a long, long time. Idiots like you who take such coldhearted view of their employees and their clients deserve a well-done and crispy fate in Hades. To Steve: I don't know why you continue with this. Your employers have clearly stated in open forum they don't give a crap. I cannot fathom what it has been like to work with/for these people. God bless you for your devotion. I for one appreciate it immensely, and by the looks of things, you need to hear this alot, because it is apparent Matrix does not give a damn. I am actually now undecided for the first time if I will buy this game. If I do, it will be in recognition of Steve's accomplishment. Not to reward Matrix. But one thing is clear. I will not give Matrix one penny beyond WIF purchases, if or when I decide to purchase it. Awaiting to be banned by cowards who should not be even able to look thimselves in the mirror, Patton LOL [:D] Sort of sad at the same time that people actually feel this way. The hate and venom directed at a company is an all too often occurance these days unfortunately.

composer99 -> RE: When? (1/3/2013 2:47:50 PM)
Personally, I would have reserved the kind of outrage Patton_71 expresses for companies which engage in widespread exploitation of humans and/or ecological destruction. (Extremely narrow) niche market game development? Not so much.

Numdydar -> RE: When? (1/3/2013 3:28:16 PM)
Exactly Composer. You summarize my point well :) Patton, Forum debates are so much fun lol. Ever hear of Big Fish games? They have the EXACT same business model that Matrix and other game publishers have these days. Big Fish is a PORTAL for HUNDREDS of small INDEPENDENT programmers, some just one person like Steve, that create the actual program and then, if Big Fish approves it, they will publish it. This is the same as Steam's Green Light program, except the Steam community helps to choose the games. And these companies are publishing mass market games that a hell of a lot more people will buy than WiF. How many units do you think Matrix will sell of Wif, 10K, maybe if it is a HUGE success 50K. And for the TINY profit margin this game will bring in, you expect this huge effort by Matrix and ADG to add resources (which are NOT free) to satisfy your personal need to get the game done quicker? Ridiculous. What you should be doing, (as I am) is THANKING Matrix and ADG for finding someone willing to do this AT ALL. Regardless of how long it is taking and how many people are involved. The fact that many seem to miss here is that this project would NEVER have happened without this type of business model, i.e. one person (working on a commission basis I am sure). Also without the community support of the Beta testers AND ADG staff willing to spend time answering rules questions, this never would have happened. ADG themselves have been offering to publish an updated WiF board game for YEARS and cannot get 500 orders. When I checked this morning their web site was completely down. And you expect these people to have the funding to support a team of programmers to develop this game faster just to satisfy your need to have it quicker? As I agree that my guess as to how physically old you are is not correct, the attitude you expressed does appear to be extremely childish to me and a lack of understanding of how the business world works. Especially in regards to publishing esoteric games for an extremely small market base.

parusski -> RE: When? (1/3/2013 3:47:57 PM)
quote: Brilliant. Perhaps if 1,000 of us take your silly vow, then Steve might be done tomorrow. Well hell, if 10,000 of us take the vow then the game will be done in 20 minutes.

Omnius -> More Programming Help (1/3/2013 5:19:18 PM)
I think the problem is having one programmer involved in this project and unfortunately that one programmer having serious health issues. It sure would be nice if another programmer could be brought in to assist Steve get this project back on track. Just reading the 1/1/13 progress report from Steve leads me to believe there is still a lot to do. If Steve suffers another health setback then that delays the release again. What if Steve has such a bad health issue that he can no longer work on the project at all? That would mean game over most likely. I wish Steve would be smart and ask for programming help and that Matrix would be smart and offer it. I know too many chefs spoil the pie but in a worst case scenario having another programmer could save the project. I could care less about the AI, always thought delaying release was a massive mistake. It's been something like 2.5 or more years since the release was delayed because of wanting to include an AI. The only good thing I saw was getting the resource convoy system working properly, unlike the ADG version. I hope that AI issues can be pushed off to the end, heck even after release, to just focus on getting the system working properly so we players can finally get the game we've been waiting for for so long. Heck Matrix better get hot releasing it before the projected customer base dies off first. [X(] Omnius

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: When? (1/3/2013 5:30:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Patton_71 Num, before you peer into a crystal ball and guess how old I am, perhaps you should look at my previous posts on this thread. Specifically, posts #2902, 2984, and 3051. The simple, easy question I have posed is...where is Matrix leadership? Answer, quite clearly is, nowhere to be found. There has been no direct response from any member of of the staff either in public or in private. But ABJ finally came out and said what I had already concluded: no support for their designer, Steve is on his own. I know Steve is a big boy, and has shown more preseverance on this than Job. I have nothing but respect for this man, especially considering what he has faced in his personal health issues, and a cold hearted non supportive Ogre like Matrix on top of that. I would not blame him for walking away tomorrow, and I actually would applaud it at this point. But the one fact that gets companies like Matrix's attention is when they get money, and when they lose it. My attempts to motivate Matrix by letting them know that their behaviour is costing them sales now and in the future is using that power of the consumer. If that offends you, tough. Its called capitalism, deal with it. Furthermore hypocrytes, I have seen endless pedantic and immature debates surrounding this game on idiotic topics as grammar and syntax, unit descriptions, and rules concerns. Many of those have gotten out of hand yet no one has blurted out the 'its just a game, relax' line in any of those. But heaven forbid, when someone actually expresses frustration at the inexcusable behaviour and bungling of the Matrix staff, the chill out and take some anger management assaults begin. Sounds like the legal team for Jerry Sandusky. One last point. ABJ's post that got me my answer began with calling the people who helped his precious family take that vacation insane. Is this someone you would want to give your business? Would you take your car to a mechanic who referred to you as the loser with the Ford Focus? Would you go to a barber who referred to you as that slob with the comb over? I certainly wouldn't. (even if it was true [;)] ) This is why Matrix will not get a dime out of me other than WIF. And thanks to ABJ, now that amount is in jeopardy. Think about it. If just 100 or so of us would vow not to purchase any Matrix product at all until WIF's release, we would have this in a month. ABJ does not work for Matrix/Slitherine Games.[:-]

Centuur -> RE: When? (1/3/2013 5:43:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bo Paladin 1128, 2 posts in 8 years and that last one was posted without much thought [:-] the man from Hoorn will straighten you out real quick about the king of beers, [&o] right Peter! Bo That depends upon the kind of beer you want to drink in a situation as this. Looking at the previous discussion here, I think I need a strong one. Also, it's winter. And that means it's time for a stong one. I've just opened a bottle of "Kasteelbier"... http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/kasteelbier-donker/5205/

Anendrue -> RE: When? (1/3/2013 6:05:57 PM)
My vacation came from my own funds and has nothing to do with Matrix. I am not employed by Matrix nor have any business dealings with them other than developing an advertising free, unpaid, and not reimbursed in any manner whatsoever web site for MWiF. It was my hope to provide a simple free and easy to use site to help people learn to play, learn new strategies and connect with others through skills matching. My time here has been strictly unpaid and totally volunteer. Well it seems clear that the public at large does not understand the roles of author, publisher and editor in regards to software. Many times I do not either as the roles vary from company to company. So you have my apologies for trying to explain a business model that I am only seeing from the outside and not the inside. On a personal level I do not need the grief or headaches that the trolls here continuously provide. I would much rather see my parents in their last years , my children, and grandchildren than deal with the issues we are assaulted with for volunteering to help a project come to fruition. Since my own health is not the greatest I will be taking an extended vacation until all of this dies down. If troll goals are to drive people away then they have succeeded. I am gone for awhile but will be back. Until then the web site is on hold.

bo -> RE: When? (1/3/2013 7:31:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Centuur quote: ORIGINAL: bo Paladin 1128, 2 posts in 8 years and that last one was posted without much thought [:-] the man from Hoorn will straighten you out real quick about the king of beers, [&o] right Peter! Bo That depends upon the kind of beer you want to drink in a situation as this. Looking at the previous discussion here, I think I need a strong one. Also, it's winter. And that means it's time for a stong one. I've just opened a bottle of "Kasteelbier"... http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/kasteelbier-donker/5205/ Kasteelbeir hmmmm rated at 96% overall, I think I read where Budweiser was rated at 97% overall but for some strange reason I cannot find that article about the rating for the King of beers which is Budweiser. [;)] Bo

bo -> RE: More Programming Help (1/3/2013 11:19:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Omnius I think the problem is having one programmer involved in this project and unfortunately that one programmer having serious health issues. It sure would be nice if another programmer could be brought in to assist Steve get this project back on track. Just reading the 1/1/13 progress report from Steve leads me to believe there is still a lot to do. If Steve suffers another health setback then that delays the release again. What if Steve has such a bad health issue that he can no longer work on the project at all? That would mean game over most likely. I wish Steve would be smart and ask for programming help and that Matrix would be smart and offer it. I know too many chefs spoil the pie but in a worst case scenario having another programmer could save the project. I could care less about the AI, always thought delaying release was a massive mistake. It's been something like 2.5 or more years since the release was delayed because of wanting to include an AI. The only good thing I saw was getting the resource convoy system working properly, unlike the ADG version. I hope that AI issues can be pushed off to the end, heck even after release, to just focus on getting the system working properly so we players can finally get the game we've been waiting for for so long. Heck Matrix better get hot releasing it before the projected customer base dies off first. [X(] Omnius Even though I agree with you about Steve should be getting extra programmers to help out I believe that is between Steve and Matrix I really do not want to start a p**s war again but I have to take exception to that crap about the AI holding things up for two and a half years that's plain bull crap, and I am tired of you so called special people here who only care for the game to be released for your little pleasure and the hell with all the other war gamers at Matrix and Battlefront who just might desire an AI good or bad. After a few years of fighting for a decent AI, I have surrendered to the powers that be and just maybe some of the blame for the delay could be put on the shoulders of the WIF purists that roam around here now and then, because the game has to be exactly as the board game which I am sure has caused Steve enough headaches for this endeavor. I am not saying Steve would have it any other way but I wager he was under a lot of pressure from certain people that the game had to be PURE BOARD GAME WIF! I could care less about that stuff I just want to see a good computer war game done reasonably well with most of the WIF features in it in a short period of time. And hopefully this game when done will remain on our computers for many years to come. How many games do we have sitting on the shelves that we will never play again because their playability has long since been used up. I believe this game when finished will never get on that shelf. Bo

parusski -> RE: When? (1/4/2013 1:38:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: abj9562 My vacation came from my own funds and has nothing to do with Matrix. I am not employed by Matrix nor have any business dealings with them other than developing an advertising free, unpaid, and not reimbursed in any manner whatsoever web site for MWiF. It was my hope to provide a simple free and easy to use site to help people learn to play, learn new strategies �and connect with others�through skills matching. My time here has been strictly unpaid and totally volunteer. Well it seems clear that the public at large does not understand the roles of author, publisher and editor in regards to software. Many times I do not either as the roles vary from company to company. So you have my apologies for trying to explain a business model that I am only seeing from the outside and not the inside. On a personal level I do not need the grief or headaches that the trolls here continuously provide. I would much rather see my parents in their last years , my children, and grandchildren than deal with the issues we are assaulted with for volunteering to help a project come to fruition. Since my own health is not the greatest I will be taking an extended vacation until all of this dies down. If troll goals are to drive people away then they have succeeded. I am gone for awhile but will be back. Until then the web site is on hold. Well, I DO understand your situation and I hate to see you take cover from the idiot trolls. Good luck.

Jimm -> RE: When? (1/4/2013 7:41:07 PM)
No one should EVER read the When? thread. It's just asking for grief.

paulderynck -> RE: When? (1/4/2013 10:26:00 PM)
The funniest thing about Patton_71's post was the stupendous ignorance it displayed with respect to abj's status. Truly a long term lurker... not!

CrusssDaddy -> RE: When? (1/5/2013 4:11:42 AM)
Warspite1, are you here? I started a new game of CWiF over the holiday. Can you guess which CW vessel was first to be sunk by the Italians?

aaronden -> RE: When? (1/5/2013 6:36:29 AM)
Happy new year Steve, and thanks for your commitment to the project. As a fellow IT guy, I'm astounded every year that you keep on this. I've owned WIF cardboard since about 2000, but have never managed a game, mostly due to space concerns and cats. : ( Hence, I'm a guaranteed buyer the day you're ready to sell. Keep up the great work, and thanks again!

warspite1 -> RE: When? (1/5/2013 8:11:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy Warspite1, are you here? I started a new game of CWiF over the holiday. Can you guess which CW vessel was first to be sunk by the Italians? warspite1 Oh, oh quizzes, I love quizzes! Er was it HMS Ramillies?

tigercub -> RE: When? (1/5/2013 9:44:26 AM)
quizzes quizzes Sir Sir her ugly Sister?

warspite1 -> RE: When? (1/5/2013 9:46:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tigercub quizzes quizzes Sir Sir her ugly Sister? warspite1 Am I alone in not understanding what the hell you just wrote? [;)]

Centuur -> RE: When? (1/5/2013 1:34:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jimm No one should EVER read the When? thread. It's just asking for grief. Why not? It's amusing at times. I'll take a beer and just sit back and see how people are getting frustrated because of the long wait... And than I'll think: well I'm a beta tester and know a lot more that I can't tell here... How nice to be part of the show...

warspite1 -> RE: When? (1/5/2013 1:44:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jimm No one should EVER read the When? thread. It's just asking for grief. warspite1 That's not true Jimm, its fun here - see post 3139, they 'ave great quizzes an' everyfing! [:)]

paulderynck -> RE: When? (1/5/2013 4:37:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy Warspite1, are you here? I started a new game of CWiF over the holiday. Can you guess which CW vessel was first to be sunk by the Italians? The last time I sank the HMS (ship who's name must not be mentioned) the toilet upstairs sprang a leak and water dripped through the light fixture above the game. Now that was annoying !!!

warspite1 -> RE: When? (1/5/2013 4:43:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: paulderynck quote: ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy Warspite1, are you here? I started a new game of CWiF over the holiday. Can you guess which CW vessel was first to be sunk by the Italians? The last time I sank the HMS (ship who's name must not be mentioned) the toilet upstairs sprang a leak and water dripped through the light fixture above the game. Now that was annoying !!! warspite1 ..and totally deserved. It's called karma [;)]

Empire101 -> RE: When? (1/5/2013 9:33:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Patton_71 Think about it. If just 100 or so of us would vow not to purchase any Matrix product at all until WIF's release, we would have this in a month. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH............. Man.. I have'nt laughed so much in ages.....thank goodness I had my jacket buttoned up, or methinks my sides would have split!. I'll just go outside and get a small group of people together to make a vow about world peace or overpaid footballers or something.... and KABAM!!! It will happen. Why did'nt we all think of that before...... And for the quizzers.....what character is the laugh ...AHAHAHAHAHAH etc taken from?

warspite1 -> RE: When? (1/5/2013 10:30:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Empire101 quote: ORIGINAL: Patton_71 Think about it. If just 100 or so of us would vow not to purchase any Matrix product at all until WIF's release, we would have this in a month. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH............. Man.. I have'nt laughed so much in ages.....thank goodness I had my jacket buttoned up, or methinks my sides would have split!. I'll just go outside and get a small group of people together to make a vow about world peace or overpaid footballers or something.... and KABAM!!! It will happen. Why did'nt we all think of that before...... And for the quizzers.....what character is the laugh ...AHAHAHAHAHAH etc taken from? warspite1 More quizzes! Great..and I know this one...it's HMS Ramiliies! [:)]

Empire101 -> RE: When? (1/6/2013 10:19:15 AM)
No...not HMS. Ramilles unfortunately. Here is a clue.... [image]local://upfiles/29250/4558AFAFC4CB4282A87BE73224E31C5B.jpg[/image]

warspite1 -> RE: When? (1/6/2013 10:23:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Empire101 No...not HMS. Ramilles unfortunately. Here is a clue.... [image]local://upfiles/29250/4558AFAFC4CB4282A87BE73224E31C5B.jpg[/image] warspite1 Not Ramillies? Are you sure?

Empire101 -> RE: When? (1/6/2013 11:03:56 AM)
Well if the question had been say; 'What was the first of the Revenge class of battleship to have anti torpedo bulges fitted', then yes, you would be right Mr. W. That sadly though, is not the case is it![;)]

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