RE: When?

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brian brian -> RE: When? (9/12/2013 4:53:31 PM)
My favorite Laffy Taffy joke, which is one so harsh I don't think it should be printed on candy for children: Q: What is the hardest kind of tea to swallow? A: Reality

composer99 -> RE: When? (9/12/2013 5:10:41 PM)
Numdydar: For the TL;DR version: We can either choose to pay now for AI/PBEM features, or pay later. We can desire not to pay for them, but I can't see that working out: Matrix has to recoup the development costs for these features and make some extra money. Given that, I don't see why paying later is such a bad thing, or how it constitutes a "stupid" pricing structure. ===== Long version: I see where you're coming from, and over a short enough time frame I would tend to agree. It would be easier as a customer to pay a single price for the released game and get the AI/PBEM features without a separate transaction. However, if there is a longer delay (say, 6+ months) between the release of the game and the release of AI/PBEM features, with the attendant risks that something will happen to cause further postponements (or even cancellations) - say, more health problems or the game sells so badly that Matrix nixes further development, it surely seems to me a better option not to have to pay for the unreleased features yet. I don't really see how grousing about DLC for high-volume games such as Civ or Dragon Age relates to MWiF - indeed IMO it's just grousing about having to pay for stuff one would have to pay for anyway if it was in the base game (only, instead of having the option to pay for it or not, you'd have to pay for it in terms of both increased sticker price and delayed release date - which for various business reasons a publisher might not want to mess with). I might add that arguably this conversation has only come up because AIs are effectively an industry standard feature, and an AI has long been discussed as a core feature of MWiF. If the AI had always been considered "expansion pack content" this cost structure wouldn't be an issue (instead, the designation of AI as "expansion" content would be). MWiF has always struck me as a game that has been expected to have a very low volume of sales, relative to similar strategic-level PC wargames. Otherwise it seems difficult to understand the development process (a single developer working for a pittance for the better part of a decade). As such, I do not think a non-standard approach to the AI release is that unreasonable.

Numdydar -> RE: When? (9/12/2013 5:42:34 PM)
The two versions of the games are very different so comapring them is not a valid argument. However, even bord game conversions to computer based ones have AIs in them for a single cost. No upgrades required [:)] Eclispe, Titan, Ticket to Ride, plus many more board games all have been converted to the computer and all have AIs as part of the intical cost. So if you are going to compare the board game and say it does not have an AI so why should we care if the computer versuion does not you should understand that it is not the lack of an AI that is my issue. I will repeate, I was willing to buy WiF at release WITHOUT an AI. I am NOT willing to buy WiF at release (unless the price point is a LOT less than where I think it will be) knowing that a) I will have to pay more at some point for an AI and b) No one has any idea (or at least not willing to say anything yet) of WHEN the AI Will be ready? As I said before, if you (and others) are willing to buy something under those conditions, then go for it. However, I would much prefer to just pay the entire cost once as I (as a customer) have a right for compensation if Matrix does not deliver on their promise of an AI since that is the terms I bought their product under. If you buy the product under the current terms, customers have NO recourse (other than to bitch and complain here) if an AI never appears. Under this pricing model you are buying the product As Is and (to Matrix's credit) the product clearly states that they is NO AI in the game. So if people are buying the game (to support Steve, the game, etc.) and are hoping an AI will be developed, they have no recourse if an AI is never developed. For whatever reason. So you now have paid X dollars for a game you were expected (and planning) on having an AI and now you have found out that there will never be one. Or it will take 2-3 more years to develop one. If this is the way you want to buy a game, then feel free to do so. Personally, I want to pay MORE for the game at release with the promise of a free AI at some point as that gives the entire customer base leverage for Matrix to actually deliver in a timely manner the product that a lot of us want. Given the history of WiF development timeline, I would think a timely AI delivery would be something that many here would want. Otherwise all we are buying currently is a game without an AI. Unfortunately, that is NOT something I am intersted in. Promises, all made in the best intentions, good faith, and all of that, just do not cut it for me. Business can face many issues where these promises made to the customer base (like Steve's notes above from 2009 clearly show) need to be changed/dropped/etc. So I am not willing to shell my money out for the promise of what I really want to buy without the manufacturer (Matrix) having some 'skin in the game'. In risk management terms, Matrix has pushed all the risk of having an AI or not to the customers versus keeping it where it really belongs, with them.

Centuur -> RE: When? (9/12/2013 5:49:07 PM)
Than don't buy it at this moment and wait until the AI release is there. Why all the fuzz about this? I don't understand. Every consumer has his reasons for buying something or not...

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: When? (9/12/2013 6:04:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: brian brian In the long run, I predict little demand for a pure PBEM. I mean unless you like wargaming in real time on the calendar. The each-side decision points are just so, so much more numerous compared to say an Avalon Hill classic. And if PBEM isn't in the initial release, the new players of the game will learn this quickly. Connectivity of all sorts is so simple, fast, 24/7, and easy these days that I have to wonder who would sit through endless emails of "4 Cruisers enter the North Sea - do you intercept?" followed by "4 Cruisers enter the Faeroes Gap - do you intercept?" or even advance declaring those decisions. Imagine pre-designating FTR intercept hexes across the entire global map for the USA during an Axis impulse in 1944 (for maybe a half-dozen points in the Axis impulse where Allied FTRs might have to fly). Much easier to play against people on roughly the same schedule of occasional free time via connected machines with side-channel Skype, IM chat, cell texts, or what have you. Email could be used to catch up the game on each player's machine when lots of offline decisions can be made, such as placing reinforcements (technically subject to the sequence of play, which is easily forgotten) moving land units, production, etc. But a pure, all decisions by email game of World in Flames just doesn't seem too desirable to me, unless there is some sort of 'override' to allow the other player to tell your units to do something, in a gentlemen's game as it is played sometimes with Cyberboard currently. The AI questions have been sorted out here on a more than annual basis. A lot of new people will be stopping by and just now be learning the answers. Some sort of short version of it all should be easily accessible somewhere. What I want to do, and this was suggested to me by several people in the forum, is to enable PBEM games to switch over to NetPlay games from time to time (at the players' choice). So when one side is moving all their land units, or during production, the exchange of decisions is via email. When things get hot and heavy (e.g., naval movement, air-to-air combat), the players go to NetPlay mode. I haven't thought out the technical details of this yet, but it seems feasible at first glance. I think it might be "a good thing to do".

Numdydar -> RE: When? (9/12/2013 6:22:26 PM)
That is true. But which of the below would you prefer? a) your boss tells you that sometime in the next year you will get a raise if you work hard. You work hard and when review time comes, your boss says, sorry business needs have changed so i cannot give you a rasie now. maybe next year if you continue to work hard. or b) we need you to work hard this year but cannot promise anything about a raise as we do not know how the company will be doing a year from now. You work hard, the end of the year comes and you know that they is not likely to be any raise so you are not expecting one. If you get one great, if you do not, then you are not upset because you knew going in that it was likely you would not get one. So Matrix can say a) We are releasing WiF without an AI (which they have clearly said so so far so good). We (Matrix/Steve) have every intention of providing an AI for the game at some point (and this is the critical part they have NOT said) but due to cirmstances, there may never be an AI developed for the game. or b) We are releasing WiF without an AI (which they have clearly said so so far so good). We (Matrix/Steve) WILL develop an AI for the game at some point and it will cost extra for when we DO develop the AI. Option a is much clearer and allows everyone to understand EXACTLY what they will be buying at release. A game without an AI and a good faith promise that one will be developed at some point in the future. While option b is much less clear and allows a buyer to be mislead into thinking that no matter what an AI will be made for the game. So that is the big deal. People need to understand exactly what they are buying, whether it is a game, DVD player, car, etc. This way if something happens and an AI is never developed regardless of the promisses made, people cannot complain about what they really did buy.

CrusssDaddy -> RE: When? (9/12/2013 6:33:11 PM)
Despite being announced by Matrix as a project supported with professional resources, it's been clear for the better part of a decade that development was in fact a hobbyist effort. Is it really surprising, at this late date, that the marketing/sales/distribution are likewise amateur hour?

warspite1 -> RE: When? (9/12/2013 6:41:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy Despite being announced by Matrix as a project supported with professional resources, it's been clear for the better part of a decade that development was in fact a hobbyist effort. Is it really surprising, at this late date, that the marketing/sales/distribution are likewise amateur hour? warspite1 Oh goody....I wondered when this moron would make his ridiculous presence felt...[8\|]

mjk428 -> RE: When? (9/12/2013 6:59:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 quote: ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy Despite being announced by Matrix as a project supported with professional resources, it's been clear for the better part of a decade that development was in fact a hobbyist effort. Is it really surprising, at this late date, that the marketing/sales/distribution are likewise amateur hour? warspite1 Oh goody....I wondered when this moron would make his ridiculous presence felt...[8\|] He makes an accurate and valid point and all you do is make a personal attack.

warspite1 -> RE: When? (9/12/2013 7:03:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mjk428 quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 quote: ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy Despite being announced by Matrix as a project supported with professional resources, it's been clear for the better part of a decade that development was in fact a hobbyist effort. Is it really surprising, at this late date, that the marketing/sales/distribution are likewise amateur hour? warspite1 Oh goody....I wondered when this moron would make his ridiculous presence felt...[8\|] He makes an accurate and valid point and all you do is make a personal attack. warspite1 Nope - not even close (as you well know).....

composer99 -> RE: When? (9/12/2013 7:11:09 PM)
mjk428: Kindly explain what makes CrusssDaddy's point "accurate and valid". Kindly refrain from resorting to handwaving (e.g. "it's self-evident", "it's obvious" etc.) while doing so. CrusssDaddy's contribution to this thread over the years has generally been similar drive-by trolling (term chosen quite specifically: he has deliberately made an effort to draw out inflamed reactions). Thus warspite's simple rejoinder is appropriate. There is little reason to believe that now, all of a sudden, after years of tedious posts along the same vein, that CrusssDaddy will make "an accurate and valid point" when it reads as just yet another of his pointless potshots.

Le Grand Cond� -> RE: When? (9/12/2013 7:19:00 PM)
Wow! Looks like you are a philisopher Numydar (and not a busy one based on the average length of your post [>:]). We have this saying in French: "enculer les mouches" - I am considering posting a link to this topic in the dictionary to illustrate what it means [:D]

mjk428 -> RE: When? (9/12/2013 7:43:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 Nope - not even close (as you well know)..... I know full well that calling a fellow forum member a moron is a personal attack and a clear violation of forum rules.

Centuur -> RE: When? (9/12/2013 7:46:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mjk428 quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 quote: ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy Despite being announced by Matrix as a project supported with professional resources, it's been clear for the better part of a decade that development was in fact a hobbyist effort. Is it really surprising, at this late date, that the marketing/sales/distribution are likewise amateur hour? warspite1 Oh goody....I wondered when this moron would make his ridiculous presence felt...[8\|] He makes an accurate and valid point and all you do is make a personal attack. Now, I'm similarly inclined to make personal attacks against anything the troll who calls himself CrushDaddy writes in this forum. However, I'm restraining myself to do so, to avoid these kind of discussions. I regret, mjk428, that you are pulled into his very questionable behaviour. The point is not whether or not Mr. CrushDaddy is right or wrong. The point is that he almost always gives his views in such a way, that I (and a lot of people here) can't find anything positive in his writings. Personally, I get the impression that he only comes in this forum, to write things damaging to the program. Sometimes, I even think he is working for a competitor company of Matrix, to foul up things here. Of course is there the fact that he might say what he thinks need to be said. Of course, in this case, it appears he has a point, take from the point of view of people out here. Fact is, that MWIF is going to be put unto the market, on the conditions MWIF has written. That's it. We can discuss it and disagree (or agree) with those decisions. But to call people "amateuristic" is way, way out of line. Hobbyist, maybe, but amateurs? That's to me not the way you should speak about people who make a living out of putting games on the market. Perhaps they are wrong by doing it this way. Perhaps not, that's for the future to decide...

mjk428 -> RE: When? (9/12/2013 7:52:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: composer99 mjk428: Kindly explain what makes CrusssDaddy's point "accurate and valid". Kindly refrain from resorting to handwaving (e.g. "it's self-evident", "it's obvious" etc.) while doing so. CrusssDaddy's contribution to this thread over the years has generally been similar drive-by trolling (term chosen quite specifically: he has deliberately made an effort to draw out inflamed reactions). Thus warspite's simple rejoinder is appropriate. There is little reason to believe that now, all of a sudden, after years of tedious posts along the same vein, that CrusssDaddy will make "an accurate and valid point" when it reads as just yet another of his pointless potshots. CrossDaddy's prior history is irrelevant. He's a current forum member in good standing. Warspite's post was the polar opposite of appropriate. Matrix knows first-hand what an "amateur hour" this project has been. No point in trying to shield them from what is "self-evident" and "obvious". There's little reason to believe that now, all of a sudden, after years of misinformation, broken promises and missed deadlines, that any promises of future additions to this project will ever see the light of day in promised form. But you believe what you want and others will believe what they want. However, personal insults should not be tolerated.

warspite1 -> RE: When? (9/12/2013 7:56:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mjk428 quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 Nope - not even close (as you well know)..... I know full well that calling a fellow forum member a moron is a personal attack and a clear violation of forum rules. warspite1 Do you? Congratulations. Perhaps therefore you will care to tell me why the following ritual has been played out for some years now: - That moron attacks Steve, the beta testers and anyone else he cares to pick upon - Nothing is said - I respond in kind - Suddenly the world and his wife states that I have stepped over a line or some old cobblers. You have been around this forum a long time. You know what he is all about. How about you having a go at the pathetic troll every now and again and telling him that he is in breach of forum rules?

Centuur -> RE: When? (9/12/2013 8:02:42 PM)
@ mjk428 Of course you can have this opinion, but I didn't see you posting every time to express you views the way Mr. CrussDaddy always does. I think this is because you don't like to trash people around verbally (which is something I dislike too). Now, personally, I would have liked it a lot if my right honourable friend Mr. Warspite refrained on reacting to Mr. Crushdaddy, however I can understand he did it. It is very frustrating to have someone who always reacts negative. Nothing which happens with MWIF is good. It's always bad. And that history is always going to be part of his name in this forum. I don't think he is in "good standing" at all, I'm afraid...

warspite1 -> RE: When? (9/12/2013 8:06:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mjk428 quote: ORIGINAL: composer99 mjk428: Kindly explain what makes CrusssDaddy's point "accurate and valid". Kindly refrain from resorting to handwaving (e.g. "it's self-evident", "it's obvious" etc.) while doing so. CrusssDaddy's contribution to this thread over the years has generally been similar drive-by trolling (term chosen quite specifically: he has deliberately made an effort to draw out inflamed reactions). Thus warspite's simple rejoinder is appropriate. There is little reason to believe that now, all of a sudden, after years of tedious posts along the same vein, that CrusssDaddy will make "an accurate and valid point" when it reads as just yet another of his pointless potshots. CrossDaddy's prior history is irrelevant. He's a current forum member in good standing. Warspite's post was the polar opposite of appropriate. Matrix knows first-hand what an "amateur hour" this project has been. No point in trying to shield them from what is "self-evident" and "obvious". There's little reason to believe that now, all of a sudden, after years of misinformation, broken promises and missed deadlines, that any promises of future additions to this project will ever see the light of day in promised form. But you believe what you want and others will believe what they want. However, personal insults should not be tolerated. warspite1 Ah I see - enough said quote: CrossDaddy's prior history is irrelevant. He's a current forum member in good standing. I think that comments tells us all we need to know

mjk428 -> RE: When? (9/12/2013 8:11:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 Do you? Congratulations. Perhaps therefore you will care to tell me why the following ritual has been played out for some years now: - That moron attacks Steve, the beta testers and anyone else he cares to pick upon - Nothing is said - I respond in kind - Suddenly the world and his wife states that I have stepped over a line or some old cobblers. You have been around this forum a long time. You know what he is all about. How about you having a go at the pathetic troll every now and again and telling him that he is in breach of forum rules? Honestly I have no idea who Crussdaddy is. He's never been on my radar. I'd say that ritual has played out because being critical of Matrix & Co. is not an explicit breach of forum rules while personal attacks against fellow forum members is a violation. Having a go at pathetic trolls is a frustrating exercise in futility. If I do see him breaking the rules I'll gladly call him out. Although I'm sure there will be many people ahead of me in line. :)

mjk428 -> RE: When? (9/12/2013 8:13:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Centuur @ mjk428 Of course you can have this opinion, but I didn't see you posting every time to express you views the way Mr. CrussDaddy always does. I think this is because you don't like to trash people around verbally (which is something I dislike too). Now, personally, I would have liked it a lot if my right honourable friend Mr. Warspite refrained on reacting to Mr. Crushdaddy, however I can understand he did it. It is very frustrating to have someone who always reacts negative. Nothing which happens with MWIF is good. It's always bad. And that history is always going to be part of his name in this forum. I don't think he is in "good standing" at all, I'm afraid... If he's able to post in the forum he's in good standing. Doesn't mean he's popular. ;) I understand your frustration but so far at least nothing good HAS happened with MWIF. Hope that changes in the near future.

Centuur -> RE: When? (9/12/2013 8:21:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mjk428 quote: ORIGINAL: Centuur @ mjk428 Of course you can have this opinion, but I didn't see you posting every time to express you views the way Mr. CrussDaddy always does. I think this is because you don't like to trash people around verbally (which is something I dislike too). Now, personally, I would have liked it a lot if my right honourable friend Mr. Warspite refrained on reacting to Mr. Crushdaddy, however I can understand he did it. It is very frustrating to have someone who always reacts negative. Nothing which happens with MWIF is good. It's always bad. And that history is always going to be part of his name in this forum. I don't think he is in "good standing" at all, I'm afraid... If he's able to post in the forum he's in good standing. Doesn't mean he's popular. ;) I understand your frustration but so far at least nothing good HAS happened with MWIF. Hope that changes in the near future. Isn't it a good thing that the product is going unto the market now? I think it is. The way it is going unto the market, I have some questions about that too. I would have liked the AI to be in it too, but it simply isn't at this moment. Now, we can all say: let's wait for it to be included in the game, but there are a lot of WiF players there, who will buy this game without an AI, simply to be able to see if they can play without having to block a whole room for a couple of years (with the dreaded cat, kid and of course the wife as hazardous people around). I've got a couple of friends I used to play WiF with some years ago, who are all waiting for this, since they simply cannot spare the room any more. Computers are that much better to play these kind of monster games by.

composer99 -> RE: When? (9/12/2013 8:36:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mjk428 CrusssDaddy's [sic] prior history is irrelevant. He's a current forum member in good standing. You are entirely incorrect, with respect to his prior history of participation on this thread. No one is obliged, every single time CrusssDaddy leaves some turd of a post whinging about or insulting others, to treat it as a brand new event, leaving out of consideration all the other times he has done the exact same thing. Rather, his posts are best viewed in light of the context of the posts surrounding them, and in light of his total contribution to the thread. That you suggest otherwise (by asserting his prior posting history is "irrelevant") is, suffice to say, a questionable line of argument. Also, what do you mean by "in good standing" (other than "hasn't done anything/enough to merit being banned by Matrix forum administration"), and who are you to decide what it is (apart from the minimal definition I have outlined)? quote: Warspite's post was the polar opposite of appropriate. Matrix knows first-hand what an "amateur hour" this project has been. No point in trying to shield them from what is "self-evident" and "obvious". There's little reason to believe that now, all of a sudden, after years of misinformation, broken promises and missed deadlines, that any promises of future additions to this project will ever see the light of day in promised form. But you believe what you want and others will believe what they want. However, personal insults should not be tolerated. [>:] In light of years' worth of thorough posts by Steve discussing the work in progress, "years of misinformation, broken promises and missed deadlines" is wildly inaccurate, so much so that I can scarcely conceive it being anything other than deliberately so; as there's none so blind as those who will not see, I suppose such nonsense can be chalked up to (unflattering) ignorance on your part. Until the last few days, to my knowledge no formal or official release date for MWiF was ever provided by Matrix or Steve. Early on, Steve issued what turned out to be overly optimistic forecasts for completion, but these are not promises. What is more, unless you are privy to inside information with respect to Steve's dealings with Matrix, who are you to say deadlines have been missed, or even what the deadlines are/were?

Greyshaft -> RE: When? (9/12/2013 9:13:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Numdydar So why should we support a pricing model that is counter to every game that Matrix will release just because of issues with development, etc. that the customers had nothing to do with. My point is that you don't have to support it. You can choose not to buy the game.

Numdydar -> RE: When? (9/12/2013 9:57:20 PM)
And I am chosing not to buy it (unless it is a lot less than what I expect it to be). [:(] Even though I REALLY wanted to before now. I am chosing not to support what I consider really bad behivor on Matrix's part. When (and if) and AI version is released, I will definately buy it at whatever cost is involved. As I will then know that Matrix kept its promise to build an AI for the game. Again I do not care at all if an AI is available at release or not. I just want Matrix to have an incentive to fully develop an AI in a TIMELY manner. Paying them money at release may give them some incentive to develop an AI. it would be a lot better from a customer point of view if we payed upfront for the full product so Matrix would be liabile if the AI was NOT developed. Now there is incentive [:)]. Of course I can totally see why they would not want to do that as well. I just think it is a terrible way to treat their customers. If they sell 500 copies of the game without an AI, how long do you think it will take them to create an AI? Given the proven track record of the dev time so far without an AI are you really ready to trust Matrix to deliver an AI anytime soon? For a game this complex? I am not. I REALLY hope I wrong about all of this. But given events so far, I am not holding my breath.

CrusssDaddy -> RE: When? (9/12/2013 9:57:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: composer99 quote: ORIGINAL: mjk428 CrusssDaddy's [sic] prior history is irrelevant. He's a current forum member in good standing. You are entirely incorrect, with respect to his prior history of participation on this thread. No one is obliged, every single time CrusssDaddy leaves some turd of a post whinging about or insulting others, to treat it as a brand new event, leaving out of consideration all the other times he has done the exact same thing. Rather, his posts are best viewed in light of the context of the posts surrounding them, and in light of his total contribution to the thread. That you suggest otherwise (by asserting his prior posting history is "irrelevant") is, suffice to say, a questionable line of argument. Also, what do you mean by "in good standing" (other than "hasn't done anything/enough to merit being banned by Matrix forum administration"), and who are you to decide what it is (apart from the minimal definition I have outlined)? quote: Warspite's post was the polar opposite of appropriate. Matrix knows first-hand what an "amateur hour" this project has been. No point in trying to shield them from what is "self-evident" and "obvious". There's little reason to believe that now, all of a sudden, after years of misinformation, broken promises and missed deadlines, that any promises of future additions to this project will ever see the light of day in promised form. But you believe what you want and others will believe what they want. However, personal insults should not be tolerated. [>:] In light of years' worth of thorough posts by Steve discussing the work in progress, "years of misinformation, broken promises and missed deadlines" is wildly inaccurate, so much so that I can scarcely conceive it being anything other than deliberately so; as there's none so blind as those who will not see, I suppose such nonsense can be chalked up to (unflattering) ignorance on your part. Until the last few days, to my knowledge no formal or official release date for MWiF was ever provided by Matrix or Steve. Early on, Steve issued what turned out to be overly optimistic forecasts for completion, but these are not promises. What is more, unless you are privy to inside information with respect to Steve's dealings with Matrix, who are you to say deadlines have been missed, or even what the deadlines are/were? You should go reread the "Matrix Seals the Deal..." announcement from 10 (ten) years (a decade) ago. Review that list of bulleted game features -- what percentage, after 10 years of work, made it to the game? Is it really so egregious, reviewing that list and noting truthfully the percentage accomplished in all this time, to characterize the effort as amateur hour or to remark upon stated promises (maybe better termed "hopes?"), information and deadlines that turned out to fall well short of reality? [SPOILER ALERT -- The answer is "20%" after ten years, twenty-percent.]

Tonqeen -> RE: When? (9/12/2013 10:34:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy quote: ORIGINAL: composer99 quote: ORIGINAL: mjk428 CrusssDaddy's [sic] prior history is irrelevant. He's a current forum member in good standing. You are entirely incorrect, with respect to his prior history of participation on this thread. No one is obliged, every single time CrusssDaddy leaves some turd of a post whinging about or insulting others, to treat it as a brand new event, leaving out of consideration all the other times he has done the exact same thing. Rather, his posts are best viewed in light of the context of the posts surrounding them, and in light of his total contribution to the thread. That you suggest otherwise (by asserting his prior posting history is "irrelevant") is, suffice to say, a questionable line of argument. Also, what do you mean by "in good standing" (other than "hasn't done anything/enough to merit being banned by Matrix forum administration"), and who are you to decide what it is (apart from the minimal definition I have outlined)? quote: Warspite's post was the polar opposite of appropriate. Matrix knows first-hand what an "amateur hour" this project has been. No point in trying to shield them from what is "self-evident" and "obvious". There's little reason to believe that now, all of a sudden, after years of misinformation, broken promises and missed deadlines, that any promises of future additions to this project will ever see the light of day in promised form. But you believe what you want and others will believe what they want. However, personal insults should not be tolerated. [>:] In light of years' worth of thorough posts by Steve discussing the work in progress, "years of misinformation, broken promises and missed deadlines" is wildly inaccurate, so much so that I can scarcely conceive it being anything other than deliberately so; as there's none so blind as those who will not see, I suppose such nonsense can be chalked up to (unflattering) ignorance on your part. Until the last few days, to my knowledge no formal or official release date for MWiF was ever provided by Matrix or Steve. Early on, Steve issued what turned out to be overly optimistic forecasts for completion, but these are not promises. What is more, unless you are privy to inside information with respect to Steve's dealings with Matrix, who are you to say deadlines have been missed, or even what the deadlines are/were? You should go reread the "Matrix Seals the Deal..." announcement from 10 (ten) years (a decade) ago. Review that list of bulleted game features -- what percentage, after 10 years of work, made it to the game? Is it really so egregious, reviewing that list and noting truthfully the percentage accomplished in all this time, to characterize the effort as amateur hour or to remark upon stated promises (maybe better termed "hopes?"), information and deadlines that turned out to fall well short of reality? [SPOILER ALERT -- The answer is "20%" after ten years, twenty-percent.] If I'd disliked a game to the piont that you do, I would�nt go to that forum no more. The energy that you hate it must be at level psykopatic

CrusssDaddy -> RE: When? (9/12/2013 11:15:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tonqeen quote: ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy quote: ORIGINAL: composer99 quote: ORIGINAL: mjk428 CrusssDaddy's [sic] prior history is irrelevant. He's a current forum member in good standing. You are entirely incorrect, with respect to his prior history of participation on this thread. No one is obliged, every single time CrusssDaddy leaves some turd of a post whinging about or insulting others, to treat it as a brand new event, leaving out of consideration all the other times he has done the exact same thing. Rather, his posts are best viewed in light of the context of the posts surrounding them, and in light of his total contribution to the thread. That you suggest otherwise (by asserting his prior posting history is "irrelevant") is, suffice to say, a questionable line of argument. Also, what do you mean by "in good standing" (other than "hasn't done anything/enough to merit being banned by Matrix forum administration"), and who are you to decide what it is (apart from the minimal definition I have outlined)? quote: Warspite's post was the polar opposite of appropriate. Matrix knows first-hand what an "amateur hour" this project has been. No point in trying to shield them from what is "self-evident" and "obvious". There's little reason to believe that now, all of a sudden, after years of misinformation, broken promises and missed deadlines, that any promises of future additions to this project will ever see the light of day in promised form. But you believe what you want and others will believe what they want. However, personal insults should not be tolerated. [>:] In light of years' worth of thorough posts by Steve discussing the work in progress, "years of misinformation, broken promises and missed deadlines" is wildly inaccurate, so much so that I can scarcely conceive it being anything other than deliberately so; as there's none so blind as those who will not see, I suppose such nonsense can be chalked up to (unflattering) ignorance on your part. Until the last few days, to my knowledge no formal or official release date for MWiF was ever provided by Matrix or Steve. Early on, Steve issued what turned out to be overly optimistic forecasts for completion, but these are not promises. What is more, unless you are privy to inside information with respect to Steve's dealings with Matrix, who are you to say deadlines have been missed, or even what the deadlines are/were? You should go reread the "Matrix Seals the Deal..." announcement from 10 (ten) years (a decade) ago. Review that list of bulleted game features -- what percentage, after 10 years of work, made it to the game? Is it really so egregious, reviewing that list and noting truthfully the percentage accomplished in all this time, to characterize the effort as amateur hour or to remark upon stated promises (maybe better termed "hopes?"), information and deadlines that turned out to fall well short of reality? [SPOILER ALERT -- The answer is "20%" after ten years, twenty-percent.] If I'd disliked a game to the piont that you do, I would�nt go to that forum no more. The energy that you hate it must be at level psykopatic "Psykopatic" is a great name for a band!

paulderynck -> RE: When? (9/12/2013 11:49:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets What I want to do, and this was suggested to me by several people in the forum, is to enable PBEM games to switch over to NetPlay games from time to time (at the players' choice). So when one side is moving all their land units, or during production, the exchange of decisions is via email. When things get hot and heavy (e.g., naval movement, air-to-air combat), the players go to NetPlay mode. I haven't thought out the technical details of this yet, but it seems feasible at first glance. I think it might be "a good thing to do". That is absolutely the best thing to do.

paulderynck -> RE: When? (9/13/2013 12:07:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Numdydar And I am chosing not to buy it (unless it is a lot less than what I expect it to be). [:(] Even though I REALLY wanted to before now. I am chosing not to support what I consider really bad behivor on Matrix's part. When (and if) and AI version is released, I will definately buy it at whatever cost is involved. As I will then know that Matrix kept its promise to build an AI for the game. Awwww, you really, really, REALLY wanted to? Poor you. Do not buy it. That is best. Your whining and complaining will change nothing. Your buying or not buying will change nothing. Matrix ought to publish the buyers' pseudonyms in November. Then we can be shocked to see: ...Numdydar, ...Crussdaddy... etc.

CrusssDaddy -> RE: When? (9/13/2013 12:19:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: paulderynck quote: ORIGINAL: Numdydar And I am chosing not to buy it (unless it is a lot less than what I expect it to be). [:(] Even though I REALLY wanted to before now. I am chosing not to support what I consider really bad behivor on Matrix's part. When (and if) and AI version is released, I will definately buy it at whatever cost is involved. As I will then know that Matrix kept its promise to build an AI for the game. Awwww, you really, really, REALLY wanted to? Poor you. Do not buy it. That is best. Your whining and complaining will change nothing. Your buying or not buying will change nothing. Matrix ought to publish the buyers' pseudonyms in November. Then we can be shocked to see: ...Numdydar, ...Crussdaddy... etc. quote: paulderynck What a curious and destructive response. I can understand harsh words directed my way, but what is the source of such venom inflicted on someone who has been and desires fervently to remain a supporter of MWiF? This is baffling. Why does reasoned and polite opinion wound you so personally?

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