RE: When? (Full Version)

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composer99 -> RE: When? (10/1/2007 6:21:47 PM)

I haven't seen much up vis-à-vis barbershop chorus stuff lately. Is MWiF now consuming so much time that you can't spare any for rehearsals?




Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: When? (10/1/2007 7:32:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

I worked on adding code for setting up partisan units during scenario setup. Still left to do on that topic is to add a special little subphase at the end of setup where some major powers (the USSR and France) can place their partisan units on the map after the major power that is occupying their home country (i.e., Germany) has set up. Note that when the occupier places his units first, there is little difficulty.

Aren't all Partisans supposed to be setup after all the major powers are setup ?

********************************
24.1.6 Setting up
(...)
Option 46: Partisans set up as per 13.1, after all major power’s have set up.
********************************


Theoretically yes, but there is no need to have it as a seperate step in a couple of cases. If the Germans and Italians have already setup their units in France (or the USSR) why not have the French (USSR) setup their partisans when they set up their other units? It saves a step in the sequence of play later.




Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: When? (10/1/2007 7:50:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

I haven't seen much up vis-à-vis barbershop chorus stuff lately. Is MWiF now consuming so much time that you can't spare any for rehearsals?

Well, ...
1 - We have been waiting on the chorus director (who has final say) to resolve some script issues for the Xmas show. Until he does that I can't finish writing the dialogue. He has had 5 weeks now in which he has done nothing - but since it is a volunteer organization and he puts in an enormous amount of time for very little pay, all we can do is nag him occasionally.

2 - The tenor in our quartet got a new job where he works from 4 AM to 1 PM. For the first month he was working 7 days a week with occasional double shifts. When we do see him for evening rehearsals, he falls asleep at 8:30 or so. Meanwhile our baritone works on Oahu while hs wife lives on Maui, so he flies to Maui almost every weekend, leaving friday night and coming back late sunday evening. And right now the tenor and lead are in Vermont for 2 weeks visiting relatives. Quartet rehearsal really requires 4 people - sort of like playing doubles tennis.

3 - We had our 60th anniversity party for the chapter in the middle of September and a weekend 'retreat' to northern Oahu too. For the latter, I just drove over for Saturday. For the former, I missed one evening of work time on MWIF.

I still make weekly chorus rehearsals and the odd gig we do (about one a month, though that is going to be more in the last 3 months of the year).

But, yeah, I work on MWIF more or less continuously, starting at 6 - 6:30 AM and going through until dinner at 6 PM, with short breaks for food and cleanliness. I usually get in an hour nap somewhere along the way. I get in another hour or so of work after dinner before the Daily Show (political comedy) and another couple of hours after that before going to bed. And that is my schedule for every day.

I break the month into 5 day intervals, Pentdays (a word of my own invention), for tracking progress against the monthly schedule. That's because weekdays and weekends have lost all their meaning to me.




Anendrue -> RE: When? (10/2/2007 9:21:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

I finished the 10th tutorial (pages 10.3 through 10.19). This tutorial was exclusively on the sequence of play so I am now quite knowledgeable about how a game is suppose to proceed. Without any concerted effort on my part I am becoming disgusting familiar with all the rules and their nuances.


Steve, I haven't posted to the boards in ages but this was too good to pass up. I for one am glad to have an additional rules god that we can [8|]hassel err, uhh, hmmm[8|] - what I mean is someone we can quiz about rules and what they "really" [;)] mean. I can't wait to see the excellent work you have done. Thanks for all the hard work. [:)]




Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: When? (10/2/2007 9:46:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: abj9562


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

I finished the 10th tutorial (pages 10.3 through 10.19). This tutorial was exclusively on the sequence of play so I am now quite knowledgeable about how a game is suppose to proceed. Without any concerted effort on my part I am becoming disgusting familiar with all the rules and their nuances.


Steve, I haven't posted to the boards in ages but this was too good to pass up. I for one am glad to have an additional rules god that we can [8|]hassel err, uhh, hmmm[8|] - what I mean is someone we can quiz about rules and what they "really" [;)] mean. I can't wait to see the excellent work you have done. Thanks for all the hard work. [:)]

"Rules god?"[X(] Hmmm, old testament[sm=terms.gif] or new[sm=innocent0004.gif]?




Anendrue -> RE: When? (10/2/2007 10:14:48 PM)

ROFL, Steve you are just too funny. Since your attitude and personality are built into the game as a creation of yours. I just can not wait. When can I preorder?




YohanTM2 -> RE: When? (10/3/2007 4:34:53 PM)

Player’s Manual
I am chasing after examples of the best documentation of existing Matrix Games’ products to serve as a template for MWIF. In particular, I would like to clone the text for standard sections such as: credits, installing the program, copyright protection, how to contact Matrix Games if there is a problem, and the like. The person at Matrix who does their documentation is away presently but should be back in early October. Meanwhile I am planning on adding Patrice’s work on unit number explanations and the terrain effects chart into the players manual.


Hi Steve, if I could make a request please make sure it is 8.5x11 format, not the usual 2/3 page format. Much better to be able to print it.




Froonp -> RE: When? (10/3/2007 6:42:03 PM)

quote:


Hi Steve, if I could make a request please make sure it is 8.5x11 format, not the usual 2/3 page format. Much better to be able to print it.

I wonder how you americans can use this truncated small 8.5x11 format, and not use the regular worldwide known A4 format [:D].




mavraamides -> RE: When? (10/3/2007 11:31:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:


Hi Steve, if I could make a request please make sure it is 8.5x11 format, not the usual 2/3 page format. Much better to be able to print it.

I wonder how you americans can use this truncated small 8.5x11 format, and not use the regular worldwide known A4 format [:D].


Its our way of saving trees! Think of that extra 3.28% of surface area on your massive A4 page as one more dead tree...




npilgaard -> RE: When? (10/4/2007 10:58:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
But, yeah, I work on MWIF more or less continuously, starting at 6 - 6:30 AM and going through until dinner at 6 PM, with short breaks for food and cleanliness. I usually get in an hour nap somewhere along the way. I get in another hour or so of work after dinner before the Daily Show (political comedy) and another couple of hours after that before going to bed. And that is my schedule for every day.

I break the month into 5 day intervals, Pentdays (a word of my own invention), for tracking progress against the monthly schedule. That's because weekdays and weekends have lost all their meaning to me.


No rational reason that there should be 7 days in a week anyway [:)] (the number '7' is quite arbitrary - from Babylonian tradition iirc)

It is amazing that you can keep going at that pace!
I am truly impressed by your dedication to and great work on this project! Looking very much forward to try the finished product.




SamuraiProgrmmr -> RE: When? (10/4/2007 11:04:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: npilgaard
No rational reason that there should be 7 days in a week anyway [:)] (the number '7' is quite arbitrary - from Babylonian tradition iirc)



Or Jewish Tradition...




Anendrue -> RE: When? (10/8/2007 3:47:39 AM)

hmmm, perhaps we still do not know what metric means [;)]




hakon -> RE: When? (10/12/2007 6:10:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SamuraiProgrammer

Or Jewish Tradition...



Babylonian (or older, like sumerian) seems vastly more likely, given the relative importance of the two nations at the time, and given the fact that the 7 day week has existed across the globe for a very long time (certainly predating christianity in a lot of places.)

The two reasons for using seven days, were the seven heavenly bodies (known at the time), ie sun, moon, mars, mercury, jupite, venus and saturn, as well as the practicality of dividing the lunar month into quarters. 7 days is also a practical interval for market days, and small enough for most people to be able to count to, even with no education. (Knowing how long the lunar month was, was important to about half the population.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Days_of_the_week




Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: When? (10/12/2007 6:44:18 AM)

I always thought 13 months of 28 days each with an extra day (or two) at the end of the year made the most sense. In fact, I would even take that day (or two) out of the weekday cycle so the first of the year would always begin on a Sunday (or Monday or whatever). It just seems so much more reasonable. but impossible to change.




SamuraiProgrmmr -> RE: When? (10/12/2007 4:54:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hakon

(certainly predating christianity in a lot of places.)



It is senseless to have a discussion here as it is off topic and not likely either of us would give in.

For the record, I said nothing about christianity. It is clear that you interpreted my remarks as being religious in nature and extrapolated assumptions because of that.

You might look at the following link which does not paint exactly the same tale as the one you posted for me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Week

In fact, it primarily gives three possibilities (Hindu, Babylonian, and Jewish), all tied to worship by either sacred writings or the number of deities worshiped.

If we take that as accurate, it now becomes an issue of whose religion was first. That is probably a very futile argument because we will likely not accept each other's sources of information.

One last thing.

I didn't refute your remark. I didn't say NO, THATS WRONG!. I said 'or'. If I offended your sensibilities with that, I apologise.





composer99 -> RE: When? (10/12/2007 5:27:02 PM)

The upshot to all this being that there are not enough hours in the day or days in the week. [:D] Least of all for playing WiF.




mlees -> RE: When? (10/12/2007 10:54:12 PM)

I gots the time, just not the floor space.




Spiegator -> RE: When? (11/1/2007 11:24:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GordianKnot


quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:


Hi Steve, if I could make a request please make sure it is 8.5x11 format, not the usual 2/3 page format. Much better to be able to print it.

I wonder how you americans can use this truncated small 8.5x11 format, and not use the regular worldwide known A4 format [:D].


Its our way of saving trees! Think of that extra 3.28% of surface area on your massive A4 page as one more dead tree...


The rest of the world thinks that that 3.28% more paper per page lets you write more characters per page so we save pages at the end. BTW a saved page (if we consider the 3.28% as a tree as you wrote) is ........ 30.4878048 trees...., so you save a tree and we save 30 at the same time. Naturally this is true for long documents and naturally the rules book for MWiF is going to be just.... 2 pages maximum, so yes, US Letter Size is better[:D]




Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: When? (11/1/2007 8:39:09 PM)

Actually the physical size of the manual is still in discussion at Matrix. They like the small size to go with the CD but players like the 'full' size. Then there is MWIF whose player's manual is going to be much longer than any of the other games they've published. For example, Section V on optional rules is 60 pages without any graphics. I want to do a rewrite of RAW as RAC (Rules as Coded) which will easily be just as long, even minus the optional rules. I guesstimate about 150 pages.

================

The real reason for my posting in this thread now was to say that the monthly status report was delayed because I had a pretty bad head cold the last 3 days of October. After 10 hours of sleep last night, I'll try to write it up today, provided I do not have a relapse.




Sewerlobster -> RE: When? (11/2/2007 11:23:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

I always thought 13 months of 28 days each with an extra day (or two) at the end of the year made the most sense. In fact, I would even take that day (or two) out of the weekday cycle so the first of the year would always begin on a Sunday (or Monday or whatever). It just seems so much more reasonable. but impossible to change.


What? and then suffer through that lousy Smarch weather.




Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: When? (11/3/2007 1:52:29 AM)

Sorry for the delay on this; a bad head cold wiped me out for a few days. Hey, this is the first time I have been late with this report since I started reporting August 1, 2005.
==================
November 2, 2007 Status Report for Matrix Games’ MWIF Forum

Accomplishments of October

Project Management
Origins 2008 is still the planned release date.

Communications
Rob Armstrong did some but not all of the last map graphics.

Patrice continues to work on MWIF daily and has started on the screen shots for the last of the introductory tutorials.

I monitored all the threads in the MWIF World in Flames forum daily.

I gave new text for the Matrix web site description of World in Flames to Dean Drummy and he replaced the old immediately. I have since sent him 11 new screen shots, though those haven’t been posted yet.

I upload versions 5.03 through 5.08 to the beta testers. At the very end of the month we acquired 11 new beta testers.

I gave Dan Hatchen a copy of the source code for MWIF so he can help with coding NetPlay. After the normal glitches, he was able to get a clean compile and execute.

Robert Nebel (Nebert) and Graham Dodge (Greyshaft) continue to develop a detailed test plan based on the WIF rules for the beta testers.

Graf Zeppelin sent me his naval unit writeups (60+). Capitan reports that all the French land unit writeups have been completed.

No communications with Chris Marinacci, Harry Rowland, or Richard Dazeley (AIO language).

Software Development Tools
I purchased ThemeEngine July-2007 to be compatible with Vista. I have not installed it yet because the beta testers with Vista machines are able to run MWIF fine under XP emulation. Since it isn’t a crisis, I am going to delay putting in ThemeEngine 2007 until a quiescent period occurs in the program coding process.

Beta Testing
I made over 100 changes to the code in response to bugs reported by the beta testers. I continue to give them a new version to work with roughly weekly, which should continue for the indefinite future.

The next version to upload will be 6.00 which will include revised formats for saving and restoring games. Note that in the official numbering system this is actually 00 00 06 00. As far as I perceive this stuff, I am still working on version 0.

MadExcept generated a problem with one of the beta testers’ virus protection software packages. He just told that software to not worry about MWIF and the problem went away. At the very least, the final MWIF program will have to warn purchasers of this potential problem. Or I might remove MadExcept from the final product (very likely regardless).

Most of the bugs relate to player interface these days. There are still some lingering problems with setup data, especially in combination with which optional rules are selected. Along the way, some of the optional rules are getting partially coded.

The game stops in Port Attacks still. It does go farther than when the month started, but not much. I was side tracked by several items, the most recent is getting Save & Restore Game fully functional. Without S & RG, it takes me 5 to 10 minutes just to set up units to test port attacks, which gets real old after about the 10th time you do it. In reviewing the S & RG code I decided that enabling S & RG during setup wouldn’t be difficult to do (just not during Scrap or Lend Lease). CWIF did not allow saves during setup, though I am not sure precisely why.

This is not to be confused with saving and restoring setups (S & RS). The idea behind S & RS is to have certain positions where you want to place the non-random units during setup. For instance, convoy points, named naval units, forts, oil points, and so on are always the exact same units in the setup tray each time you play the sceanrio. S & RS will let a player save the positions on map for those units and load them in from disk every time he starts a new game. You might have different setups depending on how the other players set up, or your mood. This will be especially useful to new players so they do not have to figure out how to build convoy pipelines and deploy the large CW navy.

The new beta testers bring the group size up to 30. Port Attacks and Save & Restore Game bugs, which I wanted to have done before they arrived, remain to be fixed - but such is life.

Units
The Naval Supply unit now shows the number of additional naval units by which it is capable of increasing a minor port’s capacity. I tweaked a few small items about units depictions but nothing really remains to be done with units for game play.

I am undecided about whether to add low resolution bitmap images for the units. I do not believe that will improve their clarity much over medium resolution, and with the addition of Flyouts and the Naval Review form, it might not be needed whatsoever. For now I am placing that task in suspension.

Work continues on unit writeups. I want to inventory what we have done and what remains. Greyshaft wants to review/finish the air unit writeups. Capitan wants to get caught up on the land unit writeups he has received recently, and I want to go through the naval units to see where we stand with them. If anyone wants to take charge of the naval unit writeups, send me a PM or email.

Map
A few more hex graphics done by Rob. A few more remain for him to do.

Scenario Information
The beta testers have cleared up the data problems here. They find & I fix. Today there was 1 item reported, which makes it the only one outstanding (I’ll get to it today or tomorrow). My quest to eliminate all the problems with setting up the 11 scenarios (begun 2 years ago!) is drawing to completion.

One new item about scenarios concerns setting up units when the weather roll is unknown. For instance, can you set up a land unit in a lake hex, assuming it will be frozen? Or can you place a flying boat in the lake hex assuming it will not be frozen? Right now I have the weather set as Blizzard world-wide for all scenarios where the weather roll occurs after set up. However, I am thinking about letting the players change the weather to whatever they want during setup (assuming the weather is not predetermined). This will let them place units where they want on the map, and test the effects of different weather on supply lines if they are concerned about that. Of course, once the weather roll occurs in the actual game, any weather settings made during setup will be meaningless. And, no, you won’t be able to change the weather during play.

Optional Rules
Not a lot of work this month on these, but dribs and drabs as issues are identified by the beta testers. I am in “response mode” on these. Once the test plan gets into the hands of the beta testers we should have a more rigorous examination of all the optional rules and whether they are working correctly.

Player Interface
I added Flyouts for examining individual hexes on the map. When the cursor is placed over a hex, up to 9 units in the hex are shown at zoom level 6 (Z6). Since players are likely to use Z3 - Z5 often, especially when seeking to gain an overview of the game situation, Flyouts let players quickly see (and clearly at Z6) what is in each hex. It’s a big help on densely packed front lines, what with normally only the top unit in each hex being visible.

I have a pretty detailed design for the Task Force Summary and Task Force Details forms. These will be closely cloned as Naval Review forms. In fact, I have decided to start with doing the Naval Review Summary and Naval Review Details forms first since the task forces add another level of complexity to the interface design. At this point I have coded the layout and just need to instantiate the forms with values (i.e., determine what units are in a port/sea area and display them in the form).

The purpose of the NR forms is to provide for naval units the same overview of what is in a hex (or sea area) that the Flyouts do for land and air units. Because so many naval units can be in a port or sea area, the form not only has to be bigger, it also has to organize the units so the player can quickly understand what he is seeing. Summary statistics help in that regard.

I create a rough design for the small form to display Hex & Unit Lists. The purpose of this form is to list the air units that can move and the targets they can move to. I have planned on doing this for a long time and the work on Port attacks let me better understand how it would be used. For example, during the CAP subphase, the non-phasing player would be shown which hexes might be attacked and which fighters are available to fly CAP. During the “phasing player flies air units to port attack” subphase the possible port attack targets and the air units that can fly as bombers and escorts would be shown. And so on. If there are numerous targets (e.g., ground strike), then only the air units would be shown.

This form would be optional and the player could turn it off completely. However, for new players it should be an excellent crutch while they are learning the game. I’ll try to get this up and running next month.

Internet - NetPlay
I made small improvements to setting up the INI file to store NetPlay information but otherwise not much was done here. I’ll take another crack at it next month.

CWIF Conversion
I finished as many of the conversion of components from CWIF to JEDI library routines as I want to at this time. The last 5 I’ll fix when I get to reviewing/revising the phases of play they are concerned with (e.g., air combat). I made an attempt to do them all this past month but kept finding that there were other things in the form that I also want to modify. That became simply too distracting from my higher priority items.

CWIF only had one zoom levels for forms: half size (Z4). I had added full size (Z8) last year since that was rather easy to do. At that time I made some provision for additional sizes but there were undocumented programming routines I had to figure out which I finally got around to this month. I now have provision for unit depictions at zoom levels 5 and 6 for forms. Other sizes could be added, but I do not see any need for them.

Nothing new on the supply line routines.

MWIF Game Engine
I converted a half dozen more game play decisions to Game Record Log entries to support NetPlay.

For the changes to Save and Restore Game I methodically went through all the variables in the game and rearranged their placements in files. Very few required relocation. Pleasantly, some of the work I have been doing (since forever) on organizing variables paid off handsomely. For save and restore game the variables are now all in the modules InProgressVar or GameInProgress. The variables in other files (e.g., GameRecordVar, PlayerInterfaceVar, InitializeVar, etc.) are not saved and restored when a game is saved. The exception is SetupVar which I am now adding to the save and restore game routines. This might seem like a small thing but when you are dealing with 500+ variables, having them cleanly placed in clear locations prevents a lot of opportunities for mistakes and makes finding them when you need them much faster.

Saved Games
My highest priority at the present. To which I will return to work once I finish this monthly report.

Player’s Manual
I am still chasing after examples of the best documentation of existing Matrix Games’ products to serve as a template for MWIF. If someone has a copy (electronic) of a player’s manual they like, I would be interested - no need to reinvent the wheel here.

PBEM
Nothing new.

Historical Detail, Animations, and Sound
Nothing new.

Help System, Tutorials, and AI Assistant
I added a Terrain Effects Chart and Unit Descriptions Chart to the tutorials. At the same time I made those pages accessible from within the game during play. Patrice did the detail work on these though I designed the layout, made numerous suggestions, and reworked the English. Both of these were based on comparable ones by ADG for the board game version, and their English was more Australian than American.

Patrice and I are worrying away at the last few missing pages for the Introductory tutorials. One thing that I did to help in this process is to give the beta testers the ability to change the weather whenever they want.

Artificial Intelligence (AI)
I did almost nothing on the AIO in October. I need to start work on this in November, gather a little momentum in December, and do the big push in the first 3 months of 2008.

Other
The guys next door are trying to organize the foundations in the big hole they dug in the ground. Eventually it should be a 5 story children’s hospital. Looking down from the 19th floor let’s me supervise their progress whenever I need a break from the keyboard. One thing I have noticed is that while the work looks interesting most of the time, on days when it rains the job is a lot less appealing - tromping around in mud while being pelted by rain (even at 70 degrees F) - yuck!

I had a head cold the last 3 days of October which really messed up my schedule. I still have remnants floating around behind my eyeballs.
====================================================================
October summary: Good progress on the last bits of the player interface redesign. But when can I get to NetPlay? And I need to unleash the beta testers on the rest of the sequence of play.
====================================================================

Tasks for November

Communications
Continue monitoring the forum threads.

Map and Units
Hopefully Rob will finish the map. Call Fernando.

Scenarios
Have the beta testers test the sequence of play.

Redesign of MWIF Game Engine
Continue to work through the sequence of play giving each phase its own module. [est. 30 hours]

CWIF Conversion
Continue converting from CWIF style internet formats to Game Record Log Formats. [est. 30 hours]
Test the new random number generator. [est. 1 hour]

Beta Testing
Upload versions weekly. [est. 5 hours]

Player Interface
Finish the code for determining and displaying supply lines. [est. 20 hours]
Work on redesign of Main form layout. [est. 10 hours]
Code Task Forces and the Naval Review forms for ease of naval movement. [est. 20 hours]
Display the sequence of play (SOP) on the screen so the player knows where he is within the SOP and what is coming up next. [est. 30 hours in December]

NetPlay
Test the bidding capability using NetPlay. [est. 10 hours]
Incorporate the Indy10 code for the two player system into MWIF. [est. 40 hours]
Begin coding multi-player (more than 2) system. [est. 10 hours]

AI Opponent
Continue edits on the strategic plans and standardization of same. Work on the syntax for the AIO rules language. [est. 60 hours]

Help System, Tutorials, and AI Assistant
Finish the Introductory Tutorials. [est. 5 hours]

Player’s Manual
Write the sections on: Introduction to Player’s Manual and Installing MWIF. [est. 5 hours]

Historical Detail, Animations, and Sound
Nothing planned for November.

Other
My quartet has an unpaid 20 minute gig for a school fund raiser next weekend. This will be our first time doing more than 3 songs in a gig. By using a stop watch we discovered that most of our songs runs for less the 90 seconds, so it looks like we will be doing 11 to 12 songs - yikes!
================================================================
November summary: Keep the beta testers busy and respond to their bug reports. Test NetPlay communications for 2 players. Continue work on Game Record Log conversions to support NetPlay for entire sequence of play. Finish coding unit supply, the Introductory tutorials, and map graphics. Finish the revisions to the player interface for naval movement.
================================================================




Neilster -> RE: When? (11/3/2007 4:40:22 AM)

Thanks Steve. Garlic has been shown to be an excellent immune system booster. Fresh garlic is best but cooked is good too. The missus best have some too, if you know what I mean. [;)]

Cheers, Neilster




Neilster -> RE: When? (11/3/2007 5:11:39 AM)

quote:

I added a Terrain Effects Chart and Unit Descriptions Chart to the tutorials. At the same time I made those pages accessible from within the game during play. Patrice did the detail work on these though I designed the layout, made numerous suggestions, and reworked the English. Both of these were based on comparable ones by ADG for the board game version, and their English was more Australian than American.


Stone the crows! Turn it up, mate. That's a bit how's yer father. What could be clearer than Strine? [:'(]

Cheers, Neilster




Froonp -> RE: When? (11/3/2007 10:30:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

quote:

I added a Terrain Effects Chart and Unit Descriptions Chart to the tutorials. At the same time I made those pages accessible from within the game during play. Patrice did the detail work on these though I designed the layout, made numerous suggestions, and reworked the English. Both of these were based on comparable ones by ADG for the board game version, and their English was more Australian than American.


Stone the crows! Turn it up, mate. That's a bit how's yer father. What could be clearer than Strine? [:'(]

Cheers, Neilster


Is that Australian, mate ? Or Tasmanian ? [:D]
There was an Australian guy in the IT team where I worked a few months, and he often called me "mate". Is this an Australian habbit ?




Neilster -> RE: When? (11/3/2007 11:48:46 AM)

Yes. It's the most distinctive Australian habit. Australian for hello is "G'day mate"

Cheers, Neilster




cockney -> RE: When? (11/3/2007 7:59:28 PM)

Oh come of if me ol china, strain at nufink but cockney slang with a twang, next ya be tellin me that when ya down the battle ordering a pigs as a chase to that gold, that it was one of ya skins dusbins that come up wiv it.




wfzimmerman -> RE: When? (11/5/2007 2:37:07 AM)

re Vista, I run MWIF fine on two Vista machines without XP emulation on.




YohanTM2 -> RE: When? (11/5/2007 3:14:34 AM)

A Canadian will try to translate...

Buddy, Australian is just broken English mutilated a bit more, Next, my good man, you will try and flomux me by saying that ordering bangers after drinking urine was discovered by your cousins kid eh!


quote:

ORIGINAL: cockney

Oh come of if me ol china, strain at nufink but cockney slang with a twang, next ya be tellin me that when ya down the battle ordering a pigs as a chase to that gold, that it was one of ya skins dusbins that come up wiv it.





Irish Guards -> RE: When? (11/5/2007 3:33:15 AM)

Ah ..
Oh Dear ... [8|]
Hey brethren .. easy now .. [:-]
IDG




Neilster -> RE: When? (11/5/2007 8:28:08 AM)

Actually, Australian English is a combination of many influences. A strong one was the 18th Century British military vocabulary, because the various colonies that eventually became Australia were originally penal settlements. Another was the dialects of the convicts, many of whom were Irish or who were from England's big cities where a fast paced, jargon-filled form of English often known as Flash was commonly spoken in the criminal underworld.

By the 1820s (less than 50 years after first settlement) visitors noted that Australians spoke with a distinctive accent. The gold rush of the 1850s brought settlers from all over the world, many of them from North America. Many words from American English (especially mining terms which often owed their origins to Spanish) entered the vocabulary. I've also noticed there are a fair number of German words lurking around almost unnoticed. Germans were the 4th most common immigrants to Australia.

Many words and expressions that were common 50 years ago are now seen as stereotypical and have fallen out of favour (although I often still use them). Talking to old blokes is often a slightly strange experience as a result. My Dad's Dad was born in 1898 and he spoke with a 19th Century Australian accent and vocabulary which is quite different to today's. For example, to say "Go and get the cow (beast) from down by the far creek", he would say "Goin' git bist frum diwn be fur crick". Speaking of which, I recently saw a documentary about Colonia Nueva Australia (New Australia), where 238 adults and children emigrated to Paraguay in 1893 in an attempt to build a utopian Socialist farming community. Not surprisingly it didn't work and many went home but some stayed and their descendants still preserve some Australian stuff like recipes and certain words. One of the old blokes was the son of one of the original settlers and he spoke with a 19th Century Australian accent in a very similar fashion to my grandfather. It was kind of weird to hear it in 2007.

Personally, I speak a mix of "Cultivated Australian English" (spoken by less than 10% of the population now, with many similarities to British Received Pronunciation) and "General Australian English" (spoken by 80% of people here). I'll also speak "Broad Australian English" (Steve Irwin/Paul Hogan style, also known as Ocker or Strine) if I perceive that the listener speaks that way.

Cheers, Neilster






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