RE: When?

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WIF_Killzone -> RE: When? (11/23/2009 4:41:46 PM)
SamuraiProgrammer, have you ever programmed in Pascal, do you have any cycles available? [:D]

SamuraiProgrmmr -> RE: When? (11/23/2009 4:46:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WIF_Killzone SamuraiProgrammer, have you ever programmed in Pascal, do you have any cycles available? [:D] I have programmed exclusively in Delphi (think visual Pascal) for the last 12 years and predominately in Delphi for 3 years prior to that. Plus it was one of the first languages I learned in college - UCSD Pascal for Apple 2E So - call it 15 years experience and one of my 'milk' languages. Was your second question rhetorical?

bo -> RE: When? (11/23/2009 4:51:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SamuraiProgrammer Bo, I didn't mean to 'jump down your throat'. I realize now that the tone of my remark was likely to be interpreted that way. I aplogize. I was trying to reiterate things I have posted before without quoting them verbatim. I am not making excuses... It was still wrong to be that abrupt. I was referring to stock in the company but admittedly, the idea of frequent customers carrying some weight as pseudo-investors is truly something to be considered. I will ponder that. No I apoligize to you I am the one who should back off because no good will come out of something that will not change meaning Matrix, I truly from the heart cannot help how I feel about this endeavour of Steve's and Matrix. Bo

Joseignacio -> RE: When? (11/24/2009 8:13:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bo quote: ORIGINAL: Joseignacio quote: ORIGINAL: bo I knew I should not have come back, Steve I am not upset with you how could I be you are the most open programmer I have ever seen on the forums anywhere, but why should you get a free pass you took on this job not me, my complaint is that you should have got more help and if this coding for this game is so difficult then you should have gone to Matrix and got the best programmers around to assist you, I dont care about contracts with you and Matrix thats your problem not mine, not being mean Steve but these people on this forum [not me] are the most patient, kind and considerate group you will find anywhere in cyber land and they dont deserve this 5 or 6 year wait, I stopped posting when I asked you not to give completion dates but you went ahead anyway with dates that could not be met and you knew it, and if the people here can find anything I am saying is incorrect fine go to it, I truly hope for the sake of everyone here you will be able to complete this game bugs and all sometime next year but I have my doubts and I refuse to stick my head in the sand waiting for this to happen. Bo While we have to acknowledge that you are right that Steve didn't meet the dates, I think nobody expected exact accomplishing, after a work of almost 10 years (form the start of CWIF) or anyway, several years (4?) in MWIF itself. However, if I read your text from the (possible, I am trying to empathize) point of view of the programmer, I might feel some general unjustified guilt. I hope it doesn't affect Steve trhis way, since the general feeling of the board is that we prefer a product bug-free (to a reasonable extent) that meeting exactly the dates. Again as always I cant argue with your thinking Jose because it is always one of tolerance and understanding, never harsh, my argument has always been and will be, do not announce dates of completion EVER! Thats what set me off the deep end, when its done its done period. What the hell is so terrible and stupid about that. [Not referring to you Jose.] That has been from the begining my most verbal argument and still is. Bo Haha, yes, I tend to be tolerant but also, I have been sometimes in the dark side and I understand how difficult is to critisize a game in the very page of the developer or even at a games forum, hounded by fanboys. Because of this, I can empathize until a point; of course, this forum is extremely open and I think we are not non-critical fanboys, but I understand the deceive in somebody for whom the release date seems to be critical. For me, the release date has always had a relative importance, I always want to have the games in my hand but, as an adult, I can control my wishes. What made me crazy, instead was that Paradox (for me PatchDox) sold me a game that only worked correctly, without CTDs, weak AI, et al, after one year of the buy. And later they sold another game which was only the same game with one more patch plus 3D images. This is what most of us are trying to prevent, and some months more doesn't seem to be a price too high. Also, consider that the easier for Steve (short term) would be to sell the game as it is, with bugs and the AI incomplete, but it would be a fraud like PatchDox, it honours him that he doesn't take the easy way and then has us one year patching and beta testing, ..., and I believe the temptation is strong...

Sewerlobster -> RE: When? (11/24/2009 2:09:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Joseignacio " hounded by fanboys." Fanboys? We, sir, are fanmen. As one of the "Needs an AI club" I must voice my support of Steve and the business model chosen by Matrix. In the gaming industry, if Matrix were to employ a team like say Firaxis did with Civilization, then this game would need to sell millions of copies to make a profit. The one man, one source model while obviously slower, allows a lower volume game to come to market with Steve getting a higher percentage of the lesser returns. That is Steve and Matrix can make a larger profit this way and Steve can decide how much of his life to commit to this project. If you total the hours he's spent since this first monthly update, I believe you'd discover Steve has completely lost his marbles. Poor guy is probably just too stubborn to admit he'll get about 11¢ an hour in the end; you know, the quartet guy who always muttering under his breath, "... for the love of the game". Bless him. All the fanmen should rally to his banner and show blind fanatical suppoort for his efforts. [sm=character0272.gif]

Joseignacio -> RE: When? (11/24/2009 2:33:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SewerStarFish quote: ORIGINAL: Joseignacio " hounded by fanboys." Fanboys? We, sir, are fanmen. As one of the "Needs an AI club" I must voice my support of Steve and the business model chosen by Matrix. In the gaming industry, if Matrix were to employ a team like say Firaxis did with Civilization, then this game would need to sell millions of copies to make a profit. The one man, one source model while obviously slower, allows a lower volume game to come to market with Steve getting a higher percentage of the lesser returns. That is Steve and Matrix can make a larger profit this way and Steve can decide how much of his life to commit to this project. If you total the hours he's spent since this first monthly update, I believe you'd discover Steve has completely lost his marbles. Poor guy is probably just too stubborn to admit he'll get about 11¢ an hour in the end; you know, the quartet guy who always muttering under his breath, "... for the love of the game". Bless him. All the fanmen should rally to his banner and show blind fanatical suppoort for his efforts. [sm=character0272.gif] Well, maybe the "modern" concept of "fanboy" has evolved or I learnt it wrong. At least, in Spain, we use to call "fanboys" or "fanbois" of a video game to those who are fans but also are so enthusiastic that inmediately jump on you at the minimal critizism in their favourite game/developer, be it constructive or not. [;)]

bo -> RE: When? (11/24/2009 4:48:24 PM)
Maybe I owe Steve and Matrix an apology for my boorish behavior but I will not concede. Let me tell you from my perspective how I see this. I am in my middle sixty's and I figure when this game comes out in one or two years from now and it then takes me two more years to learn this game and know all its rules and another four years to become a decent MWIF player and four more years to maybe beat Jose or Samurai, guess what with my cheap wife and grandchildren I will be put into a cheap state run nursing home with guess what NO STINKING INTERNET!!!!! So come on Steve get with it! Bo

SamuraiProgrmmr -> RE: When? (11/24/2009 5:04:38 PM)
I must admit that this is the best argument for 'hurry up' that I have heard. By the way, $20 says you beat me the 2nd time we play (if not the first). I have this bad habit of not noticing something incredibly bad. I once lost a game because Japan got invaded by the US (from Alaska) while still prosecuting China. NEVER SAW IT COMING. I do wish that Matrix would institute a policy of 'prepay for the game - get access to all playtest releases'. However, I bet it has its problems too.

WIF_Killzone -> RE: When? (11/24/2009 6:21:51 PM)
I understand since Bo's last post that Steve is right now in the boardroom at Matrix head office begging for more resources. Thanks for you post Bo. Bet your glad there will be an AI (no internet required?). Too funny. Word has it your name come up too Samurai, something to the effect that SamuraiProgrammer knows Pascal but don't let him code the AI--he once got beat by some harpoon wielding Eskimos in thongs.

SamuraiProgrmmr -> RE: When? (11/24/2009 6:30:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WIF_Killzone Word has it your name come up too Samurai, something to the effect that SamuraiProgrammer knows Pascal but don't let him code the AI--he once got beat by some harpoon wielding Eskimos in thongs. [:D] That is because I usually teach computers to watch those things for me. Besides, beer goggles (or their Rum equivalent) might have been involved. Have a great day

WIF_Killzone -> RE: When? (11/24/2009 6:31:43 PM)
I would love to have seen the look on your face when they landed in Toyko Samurai. I once marched into the Ural's unannounced, my opponent could not stop crying for a week. [:D]

SamuraiProgrmmr -> RE: When? (11/24/2009 6:45:11 PM)
Yes, but that is not the best one... THIS is the best one. My friend and I were playing DOD to be followed up with WIF. I was the Allies. It was late 38 or early 39. We were playing the variant whereby you actually setup and moved your units on the Big maps instead of the chits on the DOD map. The maginot line had just been extended all the way to the North Sea. This caused great consternation with my friend because he loved to bring all kinds of air power and get max odds on most attacks. He liked sure things and it worked pretty well for him. The maginot line extention would cause him to have to work for France. In an attempt to cause a diversion in Africa somewhere, I started moving some aircraft out of UK to position them. Never occurred to me what he might be willing to do. It was the start of his turn and he went into the tank. He studied for at least 30 minutes. He counted units, he counted factors, he counted hexes. He chewed his fingernails. I swear, if he could have reached them, he would have counted his toenails. Finally, he said, "is it ok if we break here, I have a big decision to make and I want to think about it during the week." "Sure" I said, puzzled. What is your decision? He said "I'm thinking about invading Britain. You left it wide open for me and I think it is a trap, but for the life of me I can't figure it out." Fortune goes to the bold... I was able to keep from freaking out visibly. A week later we reconvened to play and he studied again for about 15 minutes and finally said "I can't see it but I am sure there is a trap somewhere." He then went on with his impulse, declining to declare war early and start the invasion. At the start of my turn, I quickly rebased the aircraft back to Britain, breathed a sigh of relief, and thanked him for pointing out my mistake. He resigned after that in sheer horror that he had missed the greatest opportunity ever offered in the world of cardboard war. Only time I ever beat him. Leaves a hollow feeling. He was awsome at finding the chink in the armor, wherever it might be.

WIF_Killzone -> RE: When? (11/24/2009 7:04:24 PM)
Sounds a lot like my drinking, ahem-gaming buddy. He never did beat me, he always a left a door open somewhere, or fell into the trap--such as when I attacked Gibralter with the duel aim of teaching his navy a lesson if he tried to re-enforce the rock. I stacked all the TAC's with air-to-sea factors along with nav's, fighters, everything to be able to jump on him. He only thought they were for my upcoming attack on the rock. Guess I got some good dice rolls also cause a lot of ship's went to the bottom, including the queen, and all the men on her. Game was over when I closed Suez shortly after claiming the rock. Good beer nights those. C'mon Steve, hurry dammit, I have no-one to play with, boo-hoo.

mavraamides -> RE: When? (11/24/2009 9:52:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bo you should have got more help and if this coding for this game is so difficult then you should have gone to Matrix and got the best programmers around to assist you, Bo Just curious Bo, how big do you think Matrix's budget is for this game? Each of those 'best programmers' would probably command a salary + bennies in the $180k / year range. At least. This isn't EA or even Paradox. Matrix would quickly eat up all the potential profits from this game.

bo -> RE: When? (11/24/2009 10:13:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WIF_Killzone I understand since Bo's last post that Steve is right now in the boardroom at Matrix head office begging for more resources. Thanks for you post Bo. Bet your glad there will be an AI (no internet required?). Too funny. Word has it your name come up too Samurai, something to the effect that SamuraiProgrammer knows Pascal but don't let him code the AI--he once got beat by some harpoon wielding Eskimos in thongs. Killzone I am working on my grandaughter she is the only one with sympathy for my gaming world to at least letting me have dial up internet in the nursing home, at this point I dont care if this game has an AI or not. Bo

bo -> RE: When? (11/24/2009 10:16:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GordianKnot quote: ORIGINAL: bo you should have got more help and if this coding for this game is so difficult then you should have gone to Matrix and got the best programmers around to assist you, Bo Just curious Bo, how big do you think Matrix's budget is for this game? Each of those 'best programmers' would probably command a salary + bennies in the $180k / year range. At least. This isn't EA or even Paradox. Matrix would quickly eat up all the potential profits from this game. Nothing against you Knot but this programming didnt start last week its been 5 years. Bo

bo -> RE: When? (11/24/2009 10:20:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WIF_Killzone I understand since Bo's last post that Steve is right now in the boardroom at Matrix head office begging for more resources. Thanks for you post Bo. Bet your glad there will be an AI (no internet required?). Too funny. Word has it your name come up too Samurai, something to the effect that SamuraiProgrammer knows Pascal but don't let him code the AI--he once got beat by some harpoon wielding Eskimos in thongs. Yo Kill you mean Gore is right, theres no snow and ice in Eskimo land ["thongs, wow"] Bo

bo -> RE: When? (11/24/2009 10:30:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Joseignacio quote: ORIGINAL: SewerStarFish quote: ORIGINAL: Joseignacio " hounded by fanboys." Fanboys? We, sir, are fanmen. As one of the "Needs an AI club" I must voice my support of Steve and the business model chosen by Matrix. In the gaming industry, if Matrix were to employ a team like say Firaxis did with Civilization, then this game would need to sell millions of copies to make a profit. The one man, one source model while obviously slower, allows a lower volume game to come to market with Steve getting a higher percentage of the lesser returns. That is Steve and Matrix can make a larger profit this way and Steve can decide how much of his life to commit to this project. If you total the hours he's spent since this first monthly update, I believe you'd discover Steve has completely lost his marbles. Poor guy is probably just too stubborn to admit he'll get about 11¢ an hour in the end; you know, the quartet guy who always muttering under his breath, "... for the love of the game". Bless him. All the fanmen should rally to his banner and show blind fanatical suppoort for his efforts. [sm=character0272.gif] Well, maybe the "modern" concept of "fanboy" has evolved or I learnt it wrong. At least, in Spain, we use to call "fanboys" or "fanbois" of a video game to those who are fans but also are so enthusiastic that inmediately jump on you at the minimal critizism in their favourite game/developer, be it constructive or not. [;)] I was sorta hoping Jose that you might be the reincarnation of "El Cid"[&o] and your flamenco temper would take over and tell Matrix to get off their duff here, but I guess not meek and mild Jose[:D], El Cid would really be proud of you.[>:] Bo

Joseignacio -> RE: When? (11/25/2009 8:15:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bo quote: ORIGINAL: Joseignacio quote: ORIGINAL: SewerStarFish quote: ORIGINAL: Joseignacio " hounded by fanboys." Fanboys? We, sir, are fanmen. As one of the "Needs an AI club" I must voice my support of Steve and the business model chosen by Matrix. In the gaming industry, if Matrix were to employ a team like say Firaxis did with Civilization, then this game would need to sell millions of copies to make a profit. The one man, one source model while obviously slower, allows a lower volume game to come to market with Steve getting a higher percentage of the lesser returns. That is Steve and Matrix can make a larger profit this way and Steve can decide how much of his life to commit to this project. If you total the hours he's spent since this first monthly update, I believe you'd discover Steve has completely lost his marbles. Poor guy is probably just too stubborn to admit he'll get about 11¢ an hour in the end; you know, the quartet guy who always muttering under his breath, "... for the love of the game". Bless him. All the fanmen should rally to his banner and show blind fanatical suppoort for his efforts. [sm=character0272.gif] Well, maybe the "modern" concept of "fanboy" has evolved or I learnt it wrong. At least, in Spain, we use to call "fanboys" or "fanbois" of a video game to those who are fans but also are so enthusiastic that inmediately jump on you at the minimal critizism in their favourite game/developer, be it constructive or not. [;)] I was sorta hoping Jose that you might be the reincarnation of "El Cid"[&o] and your flamenco temper would take over and tell Matrix to get off their duff here, but I guess not meek and mild Jose[:D], El Cid would really be proud of you.[>:] Bo I prefer to control my emotions, since I am too temperamental. Just recently I have been banned from a website out of being too sarcastic. The fact that it was totally unfair to kick somebody because of being sarcastic specially when your "opponent" is as sarcastic as you and he even (slightly) insults you (he called me "borde" whic in spanish stands for impertinent/unpleasant) doesn't change the fact that I was banned and he was not (at least, he was not by the moderator, but maybe he was later by theadministrator at my request). That broke my last chains and before I was effectively banned I made some comments about how dubious was his male ancestry, as well as his growing up with the rest of the swines... I prefer not to get involved in these situations, at least if not really necessary, so I try to keep cool although I will not be a hero and mercenary general like El Cid, or better a 'ronin'. By the way, my ancestors (known [:D] ) come all from El Cid natal homeland in a 20 miles area around.

WIF_Killzone -> RE: When? (11/25/2009 12:22:07 PM)
Maybe just pm us the training video's and I would be happy, hint-hint nudge-nudge. Be happy to sign a non-disclosure agreement.

SamuraiProgrmmr -> RE: When? (11/25/2009 3:02:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WIF_Killzone Maybe just pm us the training video's and I would be happy, hint-hint nudge-nudge. Be happy to sign a non-disclosure agreement. A head with a camo helment pops up out of the tall grass.... With Wide Eyes and an Alert Look On His face... His head swivels looking for the target.... "Training Videos .... training Videos.... " Where Do I Sign

bo -> RE: When? (11/25/2009 4:30:33 PM)
Damn Jose remind me not to get on your bad side whew![:-] El Cid must have had a errrr[&:] never mind, he sure got along with the senoritas huh, a lot of his ancestors around or within a 20 mile radius[:D] Bo

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: When? (11/25/2009 6:34:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SamuraiProgrammer quote: ORIGINAL: WIF_Killzone Maybe just pm us the training video's and I would be happy, hint-hint nudge-nudge. Be happy to sign a non-disclosure agreement. A head with a camo helment pops up out of the tall grass.... With Wide Eyes and an Alert Look On His face... His head swivels looking for the target.... "Training Videos .... training Videos.... " Where Do I Sign The last time I discussed this with Dave and Erik (at Matrix Games) their decision was to wait until ~ a month before initial release and then made a coordinated and comprehensive marketing push for MWIF. Since marketing is an area where my skills are negative ("if you let me help - you'll have fewer sales"), I defer completely to Dave and Erik, who have both more experience and more success than I. [As a player, releasing the training videos earlier appeals to me; but see the previous sentence for the worth of my marketing ideas.][sm=nono.gif]

WIF_Killzone -> RE: When? (11/25/2009 8:23:22 PM)
I see its time to apply the negotiating skills.[:'(] I'm sure once we explain to Dave and Erik that the loyal MWIF forum folks would relish the opportunity to view the video-tutorials as a reward for their continued commitment to the product and their ongoing valuable, if not invaluable contribution they would be more than happy to capitulate. Steve, do you have a number where Dave or Erik can be reached? [8\|]

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: When? (11/26/2009 2:56:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WIF_Killzone I see its time to apply the negotiating skills.[:'(] I'm sure once we explain to Dave and Erik that the loyal MWIF forum folks would relish the opportunity to view the video-tutorials as a reward for their continued commitment to the product and their ongoing valuable, if not invaluable contribution they would be more than happy to capitulate. Steve, do you have a number where Dave or Erik can be reached? [8\|] Try MatrixGames.Com email or use a PM.

WIF_Killzone -> RE: When? (11/26/2009 3:30:49 AM)
Hmmm, thats encouraging. I was really thinking I would be shown the door, with a "don't slam it behind you" [:)] Steve's a god!

Joseignacio -> RE: When? (11/26/2009 9:13:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bo Damn Jose remind me not to get on your bad side whew![:-] El Cid must have had a errrr[&:] never mind, he sure got along with the senoritas huh, a lot of his ancestors around or within a 20 mile radius[:D] Bo Not trying to frighten anybody, [8\|], just answering about your comment about my supposedly meekish attitude, I have nothing to prove. And when I need to prove something I use to do it personally.[:D] As for El Cid, I don't know how many young ladies he had, but I don't care, I was not meaning I descend from him but that I come from the land from where the steel comes for these souls.

WIF_Killzone -> RE: When? (11/26/2009 12:02:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets quote: ORIGINAL: WIF_Killzone I see its time to apply the negotiating skills.[:'(] I'm sure once we explain to Dave and Erik that the loyal MWIF forum folks would relish the opportunity to view the video-tutorials as a reward for their continued commitment to the product and their ongoing valuable, if not invaluable contribution they would be more than happy to capitulate. Steve, do you have a number where Dave or Erik can be reached? [8\|] Try MatrixGames.Com email or use a PM. Samurai, I think we need to create a target profile on Dave and Erik prior to the negotiation. Something like: Target Name: Forum member name: Age of target: Weight of target: Favorite donut: Likes Twinkies Y/N: Max foot speed of target: Time of day when most likes to Nap: Still has hair?: Type and age of car: Modifications (nitrous, racing tires, etc): Close talker? Loud talker? Quiet talker? Mumbler? Twitcher? Hearing impaired? Visually impaired? Just generally impaired? Born again? Has own office when other staff haves cubicles?: Despises programmers for being more intelligent?: Star wars or star trek?: The first two are required fields [:)]

nanorider426 -> RE: When? (11/26/2009 9:25:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SamuraiProgrammer Trust me on this one... HOPE THE PHONE DOESN'T RING AT EXACTLY THE WRONG MOMENT.. you will 'drop' the cloud of quickie tasks floating in your head and likely not pick them all back up when you resume. . . . . NOW consider this analogy.... When was the last time that you got lost driving somewhere you have never been before. Consider that - Really. You had a map. You studied it ahead of time. You consulted Mapquest. You followed the path as good as you could, but you just couldn't find the spot. Oh, you got there eventually - maybe even quickly ... but DID YOU DO IT CORRECTLY THE VERY FIRST TIME? And then, what if when you did not drive directly to the destination, it had the potential to disrupt any other trips that you are about to take OR have taken previously. Furthermore, if you suspect that a previously taken route may have been affected, now you have to retrace it EXACTLY and alter it if needed. Meanwhile.... you are being paid based on how many trips you make. Meanwhile... everyone believes they are the best navigator in the world and consider you a failure if you choose (for reasons they may have never considered) a path that they would not have chosen. And it has to work even if the streets have potholes (bad drivers, hardware problems, etc.) And it needs to work for cities where the speed limit is low (old machines) And it needs to work well enough that at the end of the day, people feel that it almost made as good of choices as they would have (i.e. the AI needs to be a challenge but can be beat - otherwise everyone will accuse it of being stupid or cheating) SUMMARY Writing large computer programs is a very challenging task that involves keeping up with huge amounts of detail and tying ALL of the loose ends together in a nice package. WOW![X(] You guys really have been busy in the time I've been gone from the forum! I want to bring your attention back to the above post by SamuraiProgrammer for a minute. I've abridged it (quite a bit) for the sake of brevity. Dear SamuraiProgrammer. First of all, I believe you've hit the nail on the head with that post. Thank you so much! It's really something to hear it from another person. I can really identify with what you write. Secondly, I laughed out loud when I read the line about the ringing phone. Been there lots of times; and it's equally annoying EACH ¤%@# TIME! [:@] But when put like you do above it's funny as heck. [:D] Third. I believe that your analogy to driving is the best I've heard so far. Explaining something technical and extremely specialized knowledge to a layman - and making sure that he understands what you're saying - is one of the greatest challenges I can imagine. Congratulations! I think you may have done just that. So thank you for the music. :-) And as always : The biggest THANK YOU goes out to Steve!!! [&o][&o][&o] May your lines of code never become entangled. Best regards guys. Nanorider426 Edit: PS: Can't wait for the next update from Steve. It's almost like it's X-mas once a month! [;)]

nanorider426 -> RE: When? (11/26/2009 9:27:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WIF_Killzone Samurai, I think we need to create a target profile on Dave and Erik prior to the negotiation. Something like: Target Name: Forum member name: Age of target: Weight of target: Favorite donut: Likes Twinkies Y/N: Max foot speed of target: Time of day when most likes to Nap: Still has hair?: Type and age of car: Modifications (nitrous, racing tires, etc): Close talker? Loud talker? Quiet talker? Mumbler? Twitcher? Hearing impaired? Visually impaired? Just generally impaired? Born again? Has own office when other staff haves cubicles?: Despises programmers for being more intelligent?: Star wars or star trek?: The first two are required fields [:)] Only the first two??? Surely the last is the most important! [:D]

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