RE: When?

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marklv -> RE: When? (11/9/2012 2:22:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: abj9562 quote: ORIGINAL: abuspud Perspective Department: My son was about a year, a year and a half, when Harry announced CWIF, IIRC. He's a senior in high school now. Yes and CWiF was released a long time ago. Maybe not the greatest software but it did come out. If you want it ADG sells it at their website for 20$. http://www.a-d-g.com.au//cgi/product_details?pr_id=110 We distinguish CWiF from MWiF as they are 2 different computer games although MWiF is based on the original code. Amazing that all this started in 1995!! [X(] 17 years of development and reworking - and the game is still not finished. This has to be the longest gaming project in history.

marklv -> RE: When? (11/9/2012 2:24:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets Back in the hospital! More marvels of modern medicine! Endoscopic-retrograde-coangio-pancreoscopy. That is what they say today, that Dr. Lim will do to me. If everything goes alright, my bile duct will again flow free. Endoscopic-retrograde-coangio-pancreoscopy. On October 31, I had the cataract removed in my left eye. That all went well according to the surgeon in my follow up visit the nex day. But 2 days later I had stomach pains (unrelated) and made a visit to the Emergency Room. After alot of tests the doctors concluded my gall bladder is kaput. The little ditty above is the procedure they will use to go through my mouth down the throat into my small intestine and back up into the bile duct where they expect to find a gall stone that they will remove. If that goes well then a second surgical procedure will happen later this afternoon to remove the gall bladder and I should, theoretically be discharged tomorrow and able to work a couple days after that. This makes 5 surgeries in 15 months after 60 years of none. I blame my parents for not getting the extended warranty. I'll give a full monthly report when I'm able to type myself rather than dictate to my loving wife. As Winston Churchill used to say, 'keep buggering on' and all the best with your medical treatment. You will be back stronger and fitter than ever.

Maucat -> RE: When? (11/9/2012 3:31:58 PM)
After 17 years I've lost the hope to see and play this game... When I began to wait this version I was single now I'm married with 2 sons in the high schools... I think that a simpler but playable version should be better than nothing... Matrix Games hasn't trusted in this project... it's clear now... If I want to play WIF I must take off from the cellar the old original boardgame... the problem will be find one opponent... I hope that Shannon V. OKeets should be home and he resolved his wealth problems too.

bo -> RE: When? (11/9/2012 4:12:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel Any word how things went for Steve? That's whats important here. mo reb I agree Missouri about Steve but we are just trying to keep our sanity here after nine years of frustration. [:(] Remember the date October 31st 2003? And as a beta tester with nothing to do in the last few months it gets more frustrating. I think abj and I were just having some fun which is a lot better than it was 2 years ago right abj? A comment above about a little help from Matrix might be a good thing to bring this game to market. But I will not hold my breath on that one [;)] Hopefully when Steve gets the supply straightened out we can get cracking again. Bo

bo -> RE: When? (11/9/2012 4:23:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Maucat After 17 years I've lost the hope to see and play this game... When I began to wait this version I was single now I'm married with 2 sons in the high schools... I think that a simpler but playable version should be better than nothing... Matrix Games hasn't trusted in this project... it's clear now... If I want to play WIF I must take off from the cellar the old original boardgame... the problem will be find one opponent... I hope that Shannon V. OKeets should be home and he resolved his wealth problems too. Wow Maucat you do not post much [2 posts] but when you say something you lower the boom [&o] Two sons in high school huh! Try 2 grandsons in high school [;)] Near Philadelphia we have a nursing home called Fair Acres I am just hoping they have internet when I get there. Probably not [:@] Bo

Anendrue -> RE: When? (11/9/2012 8:28:43 PM)
Think about this. A software publisher is similiar to a book publisher. An author writes the book or software while the publisher edits and sells the product. Regardless of what we want a company to do, they are limited by the contractual obligations written into the contracts. Just because you know an author wants to write a book doesn't mean it's coming out when he says it will regradless of our desires. So unless the publisher has a timeframe in the contract it's pointless to debate the subject. Siunce we do not know what is in Steve's contract it is even more pointless to discuss it. Personally we should be thankful we are even aware the game is being developed. Why, because we have put a massive amount of effort into letting Steve know what we liked and disliked and he responded. Last but not least, I do not know of any programmer who would take this project on. Especially, since rulebooks of monster games are notoriously impossible to code into reality. It is much easier to code a game that has only the rules the developer knows will work. Steve has overcome more impossible programming tasks than I care to even think about. Laymen who do not understand will both congradulate and complain about this game ad infinitum. As for me, I send my thanks and best wishes to Steve who never complains, never gripes, and always has a positive outlook. If only I could exhibit those traits more consistently I too could be a better person. Thank You Steve!

paulderynck -> RE: When? (11/9/2012 11:11:30 PM)
Exactly !

bo -> RE: When? (11/10/2012 12:33:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: abj9562 Think about this. A software publisher is similiar to a book publisher. An author writes the book or software while the publisher edits and sells the product. Regardless of what we want a company to do, they are limited by the contractual obligations written into the contracts. Just because you know an author wants to write a book doesn't mean it's coming out when he says it will regradless of our desires. So unless the publisher has a timeframe in the contract it's pointless to debate the subject. Siunce we do not know what is in Steve's contract it is even more pointless to discuss it. Personally we should be thankful we are even aware the game is being developed. Why, because we have put a massive amount of effort into letting Steve know what we liked and disliked and he responded. Last but not least, I do not know of any programmer who would take this project on. Especially, since rulebooks of monster games are notoriously impossible to code into reality. It is much easier to code a game that has only the rules the developer knows will work. Steve has overcome more impossible programming tasks than I care to even think about. Laymen who do not understand will both congradulate and complain about this game ad infinitum. As for me, I send my thanks and best wishes to Steve who never complains, never gripes, and always has a positive outlook. If only I could exhibit those traits more consistently I too could be a better person. Thank You Steve! You are getting on my nerves again abj [:-] You are always right, or you do explain things correctly whichever [;)] but cant you let me be in my little dream world for at least a couple of days hoping Matrix would help out, keep this up and I am going back to my 81mg aspirin and then you will be sorry[:D] BO

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: When? (11/10/2012 1:37:42 AM)
Short health update. They ran an MRI just before midnight on Sunday and it showed there were no gallstones blocking my bile duct. Their conclusion was that my gall bladder was so full of stones that it was swollen to the point that was pressing against the bile duct, restricting flow. The result of this analysis was that the ERCP was unnecessary, so it was deleted from the surgery schedule. However, on Tuesday they removed my gallbladder, going in through my belly button (now that hadn't seen any use in a long time). They made 3 other small incisions for shoving other instruments into my stomach, so they could see what they were doing. But the belly button was the opening where they removed the mass of the gallbladder. While this surgery was suppose to take 1 hour, in practice it took 4. The technical description given by the surgeon afterwards was "that was a nasty gallbladder". I woke up in Recovery just as the election results were coming in so in my dazed state I was hearing: 141 over 89 (no that isn't my blood pressure, that's for the woman over there) 131 over 76 (now that was said by by the nurse standing next to me, so that is my blood pressure) with 53% reporting in Caiugha Country, Obama has 55% of the vote (but who won Ohio?) heart rate 68 . . . It took me a while before I was able to figure out where all the voices were coming from and what everything meant. I went home Wednesday morning, which was very good. They only let you escape if they are pretty sure you won't be coming back the same or next day. On the downside, I have a tube coming out of my gut that drains into a little bulb (about the size of a hand grenade). We drain that once or twice a day. I see the surgeon again on Monday and the tube will be removed then. There are no followup visits planned, so this is a lot less intensive that the other operations I have undergone. --- 60 years with no hospital visits and then 5 major operations within 15 months. Bad joss I guess. I tried a simple Sudoku this morning and messed it up.[:@] Usually I have no trouble solving even the hardest of those puzzles. Clearly I shouldn't even look at the code until my mental state improves. Oh, and I am off the pain meds already. No need to confuse myself more than I already am.

PaxMondo -> RE: When? (11/10/2012 3:43:12 AM)
Welcome back Steve!! Hang in there. Head should clear up by Monday. Enjoy your weekend off. Take in some sites! Some clean air! [:D][:D][:D]

Missouri_Rebel -> RE: When? (11/10/2012 1:32:02 PM)
Yes but what about the nurses? Dresses? Scrubs? Hair pulled up? Nurse fight? I demand an update. Sudoku, isn't that some kind of crossword puzzle for nerds? Glad things went good for you Steve. Take it slow and do not try to do too much too early no matter if your pride tells you otherwise. mo reb

Anendrue -> RE: When? (11/10/2012 6:19:01 PM)
Glad to hear things are on the mend. Remember the three R's - Rest, recuperate and return.

warspite1 -> RE: When? (11/10/2012 6:25:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel Yes but what about the nurses? Dresses? Scrubs? Hair pulled up? Nurse fight? I demand an update. Sudoku, isn't that some kind of crossword puzzle for nerds? Glad things went good for you Steve. Take it slow and do not try to do too much too early no matter if your pride tells you otherwise. mo reb warspite1 Nurse fight??? [:D] [image]local://upfiles/28156/9E910C3E330341AC9C0F3A2B60376B58.jpg[/image]

Missouri_Rebel -> RE: When? (11/11/2012 5:52:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 quote: ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel Yes but what about the nurses? Dresses? Scrubs? Hair pulled up? Nurse fight? I demand an update. Sudoku, isn't that some kind of crossword puzzle for nerds? Glad things went good for you Steve. Take it slow and do not try to do too much too early no matter if your pride tells you otherwise. mo reb warspite1 Nurse fight??? [:D] [image]local://upfiles/28156/9E910C3E330341AC9C0F3A2B60376B58.jpg[/image] That is exactly how I envisioned it to be. You have no equal.

Susel1975 -> RE: When? (11/11/2012 8:56:40 PM)
I've waiting years, too - about 10??? With mid-20 I've played WIF as TableTop with 2 other Friends, then WIF as a PC-game was announced - hell, yeah. Why did I've played WIF? I liked to playback the WW II. Why did I've been waiting for WIF computer-game? The maps are huge and the game tooks long - we doesn't had have enough room to host the giant maps :) Then the first strategic computer-games come out: Does somebody remember steel panther??? But it wasn't that what i want - i wanted a game where you could play more nations, a gigantic map.... Then Hearts of Iron I was born - a great game. And today, where you can play Hearts of Iron II with the x. expansion... Did we need realy WIF computer game???

warspite1 -> RE: When? (11/11/2012 8:59:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Susel1975 Did we need realy WIF computer game??? warspite1 Well thats something only an individual can answer... If the answer is yes, then keep waiting and hoping...if no then I guess no point hanging around here [;)]

Caquineur -> RE: When? (11/12/2012 10:18:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets my belly button (now that hadn't seen any use in a long time). As always, accurate, precise and to the point [:D] Glad to know you're back [:)] !

Anendrue -> RE: When? (11/12/2012 3:54:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Susel1975 Then Hearts of Iron I was born - a great game. And today, where you can play Hearts of Iron II with the x. expansion... Did we need realy WIF computer game??? Comparing HOI3 to WiF or even MWiF is apples and oranges. However I will attempt to do so. First a real time simulation (RTS) is not the same as a chess game and HOI3 is a RTS. HOI3 seeks to simulate all aspects of warfare and does so to a certain extent. It is very much a set your orders, watch them resolve, and micro manage the heck out of events and actions. It is a very fluid game. The event system, massive message notifications, and micromanagement are what makes HOI3 a different game. WiF is a highly complex I-go U-go based game in extensive detail. Every turn, phase, and impulse requires strategic thinking. WiF is sort of a super extensive chess game. Every move, every response, every action you take requires you to evaluate your move and your opponents reaction. So it becomes a matter of what you like. Do you want RTS with fluidity or a structured game with extensive interaction with your opponent.

Joseignacio -> RE: When? (11/13/2012 8:43:36 AM)
I have played HoI 1 and 2. For me, HoI 1 was way better than 2, that's why I don't even try HoI 3 no matter that some have told me that it has solved some of the stupid setbacks of 2. HOwever, comparing HoI to WIF must be a joke. HoI (3 I guess, too) is a serious game, no doubt. Not totally RTS like abj9562 says. It is pausable RTS, and the pausable part changes it enormously, as well as the control of the "time speed". It can be assimilated (in a game versus AI) as "Per turns" WE GO. It's not but the result is similar. However, IMO, it's way far away from the strategic depth of WIF. It's something different, I would say if the Total War are Parcheesi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parcheesi), HoI is checkers, and WIF would be Chess.

Gendarme -> RE: When? (11/13/2012 9:07:11 PM)
Glad to hear Steve is overcoming his latest illness. We wish him all the best and admire the fortitude in his intention to press on with programming as soon as he is able and healthy. Seeing as that progress on Mwif has regrettably but necessarily come to a halt, I have a request concerning an aspect of this game that has had me interested from the start. And this question is addressed to anyone who can answer. What are the chances of Matrix issuing a Pre release disc containing only files of the finalized maps? At a zoom level printable to the same hex measurements as the current tabletop Wif? If enough people are interested, this may be a path for Matrix to start making money on Mwif sooner rather than later. Thanks. Anthony DeChristopher

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: When? (11/13/2012 9:15:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gendarme Glad to hear Steve is overcoming his latest illness. We wish him all the best and admire the fortitude in his intention to press on with programming as soon as he is able and healthy. Seeing as that progress on Mwif has regrettably but necessarily come to a halt, I have a request concerning an aspect of this game that has had me interested from the start. And this question is addressed to anyone who can answer. What are the chances of Matrix issuing a Pre release disc containing only files of the finalized maps? At a zoom level printable to the same hex measurements as the current tabletop Wif? If enough people are interested, this may be a path for Matrix to start making money on Mwif sooner rather than later. Thanks. Anthony DeChristopher I'll mention it to Eric Rutins next time I talk to him.

parusski -> RE: When? (11/20/2012 9:00:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 quote: ORIGINAL: Susel1975 Did we need realy WIF computer game??? warspite1 Well thats something only an individual can answer... If the answer is yes, then keep waiting and hoping...if no then I guess no point hanging around here [;)] You mean the last 17 years I have waited for Matrix to complete this game has been a waste??

warspite1 -> RE: When? (11/20/2012 9:25:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: parusski quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 quote: ORIGINAL: Susel1975 Did we need realy WIF computer game??? warspite1 Well thats something only an individual can answer... If the answer is yes, then keep waiting and hoping...if no then I guess no point hanging around here [;)] You mean the last 17 years I have waited for Matrix to complete this game has been a waste?? warspite1 No, not if you think we need a WIF computer game.....

Anendrue -> RE: When? (11/20/2012 9:55:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: parusski You mean the last 17 years I have waited for Matrix to complete this game has been a waste?? Just setting the record straight since so many people confuse CWiF and MWiF all the time. I am not looking for a fight, but 17 years is just incorrect and wrong. So I want to set the record straight for anybody who comes to these foriums and looks around. Matrix Games has only existed for 13 years. Matrix did not agree to start the World in Flames project now known as MWiF until Oct 2003. Then they had to contract with a skilled programmer willing to do the impossible. That took a year and a half to find someone who could accomplish that. Steve came to the forums in May 2005. He then had to familiarize himself with the previous code, plan requirements, analyize thousands of items and write requirements before he could write one line of code. So I would assume real coding did not start until sometime in mid to late 2006 or early 2007. That is not 17 years. If you meant more then 7 years then you must be referring to CWiF which was the forerunner of MWiF and produced by ADG and not Matrix Games. If you wish to purchase CWiF goto ADG's website and buy it. It has been there for many years and is still available. Then complain to them about 17 years. Tarnishing Matrix or Steve for ADG's issues can never be correct, fair, or even reasonable. Especially when you consider that CWiF was produced by ADG who was a competitor of Matrix Games when they released CWiF.

bo -> RE: When? (11/21/2012 1:33:30 AM)
Here we go again, first let me say this so there is no misunderstanding, abj you are one of the good guys here I mean that. I truly respect you and your opinions. I respect every ones opinion here, even Crussdaddy's. There is a problem here, I don't care if it's Matrix fault, ADG's fault or Steve's fault, I DO NOT CARE! PLEASE! I said it before and I will say it again Steve needs help, if you get mad at me again so be it. This game is worthless to me without an AI and I mean that with all my heart and soul, if Steve wants to have me leave the beta testers for saying this then that's on him. I will continue to do what ever he asks me to do as I have done for the last 6 months, anything. You WIF board gamers do not care about an AI and I accept that. Unless someone want's to correct me this game is a long way from done, if it ever gets done [Steve's health] Maybe there is no better programmer in this country [Hawaii included [;)] than Steve, but there is an old axiom two eyes are better than one. I do not believe Parusski was demeaning anyone, he is just plain fed up waiting, I never heard him complain before. We are all very tense about Steve's health for him first and secondly the game. And if Steve cannot go on because of his health you and others better dust off that board game because this computer game is headed for the trash can. Sorry but that's the way I see it. Bo

paulderynck -> RE: When? (11/21/2012 6:18:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bo Here we go again, first let me say this so there is no misunderstanding, abj you are one of the good guys here I mean that. I truly respect you and your opinions. I respect every ones opinion here, even Crussdaddy's. There is a problem here, I don't care if it's Matrix fault, ADG's fault or Steve's fault, I DO NOT CARE! PLEASE! I said it before and I will say it again Steve needs help, if you get mad at me again so be it. This game is worthless to me without an AI and I mean that with all my heart and soul, if Steve wants to have me leave the beta testers for saying this then that's on him. I will continue to do what ever he asks me to do as I have done for the last 6 months, anything. You WIF board gamers do not care about an AI and I accept that. Unless someone want's to correct me this game is a long way from done, if it ever gets done [Steve's health] Maybe there is no better programmer in this country [Hawaii included [;)] than Steve, but there is an old axiom two eyes are better than one. I do not believe Parusski was demeaning anyone, he is just plain fed up waiting, I never heard him complain before. We are all very tense about Steve's health for him first and secondly the game. And if Steve cannot go on because of his health you and others better dust off that board game because this computer game is headed for the trash can. Sorry but that's the way I see it. Bo You are right Bo but at the same time you've provided the answer to your plea about the possibility of getting any more resources involved. CWiF was a one-man show for 7 years and MWiF is a one-man show. Not only will Matrix not try to involve another developer, realistically they can't because the time that developer would need to invest to get up to speed is completely uneconomical both for him and for Matrix. And BTW people don't seem to realize that there has and is being a lot of help provided in areas where realistically it is possible to do so. The audio and graphic backgrounds, the production and printing of the player manuals, RAC, and various other myriad player aids. On top of that there has been programming help. There was help with the Netplay code and with the Tutorial development that came on a volunteer basis for heavens sake! Now that's dedication! There was a whole support platform for a Netplay server that came as part of a deal between Matrix and another computer game company. And there's a few more examples that I don't recall the details of at this time. So you are just going to have to face up to the fact that the only way you'll get an AI is if MWiF gets published and the AI gets added later. And the only people that can get MWiF published are first and foremost Steve, and to a lesser extent, the beta testers. Those are the hard facts of life and no matter how much complaining you do about it (although perhaps it makes you feel better) it's not going to change.

tigercub -> RE: When? (11/21/2012 6:36:13 AM)
Even if steve was not able to finnish, its so far down the road now it could be picked up by other brilliant man! Steve has set the bar high not surprisingly ! i am sure his road to recovery is paved for the better now! Tigecub

parusski -> RE: When? (11/21/2012 1:17:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: abj9562 quote: ORIGINAL: parusski You mean the last 17 years I have waited for Matrix to complete this game has been a waste?? Just setting the record straight since so many people confuse CWiF and MWiF all the time. I am not looking for a fight, but 17 years is just incorrect and wrong. So I want to set the record straight for anybody who comes to these foriums and looks around. Matrix Games has only existed for 13 years. Matrix did not agree to start the World in Flames project now known as MWiF until Oct 2003. Then they had to contract with a skilled programmer willing to do the impossible. That took a year and a half to find someone who could accomplish that. Steve came to the forums in May 2005. He then had to familiarize himself with the previous code, plan requirements, analyize thousands of items and write requirements before he could write one line of code. So I would assume real coding did not start until sometime in mid to late 2006 or early 2007. That is not 17 years. If you meant more then 7 years then you must be referring to CWiF which was the forerunner of MWiF and produced by ADG and not Matrix Games. If you wish to purchase CWiF goto ADG's website and buy it. It has been there for many years and is still available. Then complain to them about 17 years. Tarnishing Matrix or Steve for ADG's issues can never be correct, fair, or even reasonable. Especially when you consider that CWiF was produced by ADG who was a competitor of Matrix Games when they released CWiF. Wow, did you miss the sarcasm. I have been a MEMBER OF MATRIX since it was founded. It's called a wee bit of fun, something we do in Uttoxtter.

Anendrue -> RE: When? (11/21/2012 2:26:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: parusski Wow, did you miss the sarcasm. I have been a MEMBER OF MATRIX since it was founded. It's called a wee bit of fun, something we do in Uttoxtter. I did miss the sarcasm and I should have looked at your join date. However I believe in the truth and just posted to that effect. All I was trying to do is set the record straight for new people who are unaware of the actual record of events. As for those who are bothered by the time involved. That's their business, heart attack or whatever happens to people who stress too much about the unimportant tihngs in life. I used my stress quota when I was in the Gulf War, when my son was in a neo natal intensice care unit, and when the doctors told me I would never see again. To me those were worth worrying about. The funny thing is I couldn't really control any of those events. So my worrying in the end was for nothing since, I survived the war, my son lived, and surgeries with meds returnd my sight enough to get around and read again.

pzgndr -> RE: When? (11/21/2012 2:31:37 PM)
quote: Not only will Matrix not try to involve another developer, realistically they can't because the time that developer would need to invest to get up to speed is completely uneconomical both for him and for Matrix. One comment. Another code developer/programmer is one thing. But it's another thing for Steve and Matrix to consider involving some more AI developers once the LAIO scripting parser and AIO command structure is in place. It's going to be an iterative process to improve and enhance the computer opponent, but this is an area where multiple developers working in parallel to script various strategies can speed things up.

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