When does an AI Nation surrender? (Full Version)

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ArnaudB -> When does an AI Nation surrender? (7/28/2005 1:05:16 PM)

[&:] Hi All, Just bought CoG, my first Matrix game. Although I find the game great, as many users I wait for the patch. I have one question, in all games I play as france, I end uphaving 15 to 25 ennemy division as POW (Austria). ANd Austria not having any troops. Still they don't surrender. Ar eyou obliged to conquer the capital to finally get a surrender? I'd have thought that having no troops left and lossing many battles in a row would have an impact on the ennemy nation?

When will the patch 1. be available?

[image]local://upfiles/17551/E31D12CB7583459A8204540EB0BA0491.jpg[/image]



Latour_Maubourg -> RE: When does an AI Nation surrender? (7/28/2005 1:09:29 PM)

anxiously is our youngest and newest member awaiting the patch [:D][:D]

Great pic.

L-M [:)]



MarcelJV -> RE: When does an AI Nation surrender? (7/28/2005 3:10:03 PM)

Thats his military advisor.[:D]



Hard Sarge -> RE: When does an AI Nation surrender? (7/28/2005 3:31:08 PM)

LOL
over all, all kinds of things work on making a side surrender, things that happen, change the morale, the lower the morale the better chance of a surrender happening

(my current game as France, the UK has been at war with me from the start, seems like every 2 years, they land and I defeat them, and then they have to wait 2 more years to raise the next army, and there morale is at 1000, so they are happy to be at war, just don't have any troops)

Capturing Cities gives a huge morale hit, losing battles helps, biggest drop I have seen, comes from being in there Cap and hammering it

plus what else is going on around it, they may surrender to you, so they can fight someone else

HARD_Sarge



ian77 -> RE: When does an AI Nation surrender? (7/28/2005 3:54:28 PM)

End of turn Report

1 new population available in forum



ian77 -> RE: When does an AI Nation surrender? (7/28/2005 4:00:21 PM)

Get their national morale down to below -750 and they should surrender - but it might not be to you if they have multiple wars ongoing!

Just being in their capital province cases the morale drop, you do not need to capture the city.(not sure if this is a bug or undocumented game feature[8|])



ArnaudB -> RE: When does an AI Nation surrender? (7/28/2005 4:27:16 PM)

Thanks for the input, does "conquer" a protectorate also hit the ennemy nation morale? How do yo "see" the ennemy nation morale?



ian77 -> RE: When does an AI Nation surrender? (7/28/2005 4:50:44 PM)

Diplomacy screen, relationships, and then view countries, all the powers are displayed, as the mouse moves over the symbols the numeric value is displayed... shows their NML, GPs, resources, Upgrade techs, a VERY USEFUL page!



Reg Pither -> RE: When does an AI Nation surrender? (7/28/2005 6:28:42 PM)

Is there no way via diplomacy to ask them to surrender?



Hard Sarge -> RE: When does an AI Nation surrender? (7/28/2005 6:54:06 PM)

quote:

Thanks for the input, does "conquer" a protectorate also hit the ennemy nation morale? How do yo "see" the ennemy nation morale


well it did to me when the AI took one of mine

I had gotten Prussia to surrender, sent the terms to them, then saved the game, when I came back the next day, I had forgotten I asked to be ceded East Prussia

Russia went to war with me and walked right in and took it as I never put troops in it

I think I took a 150 point hit when the Russians took it over

HARD_Sarge



Uncle_Joe -> RE: When does an AI Nation surrender? (7/28/2005 6:55:29 PM)

quote:

Is there no way via diplomacy to ask them to surrender?


No. It is something a few of us have been asking for. Its possible it will be added later in a patch if its not too hard to do.



Naomi -> RE: When does an AI Nation surrender? (7/28/2005 9:03:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Uncle_Joe

quote:

Is there no way via diplomacy to ask them to surrender?


No. It is something a few of us have been asking for. Its possible it will be added later in a patch if its not too hard to do.

There is a couple of ways to help make them concede defeat sooner - propaganda and pressure peace. Though the latter never worked in my cases. :p



Reg Pither -> RE: When does an AI Nation surrender? (7/29/2005 11:32:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Naomi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Uncle_Joe

quote:

Is there no way via diplomacy to ask them to surrender?


No. It is something a few of us have been asking for. Its possible it will be added later in a patch if its not too hard to do.

There is a couple of ways to help make them concede defeat sooner - propaganda and pressure peace. Though the latter never worked in my cases. :p


Yes, I've often tried those but never had any success. It would be great if there were a Treaty clause to suggest that an enemy surrenders rather than a war dragging on and on as their territory and armies get smaller and smaller.



ericbabe -> RE: When does an AI Nation surrender? (7/29/2005 2:19:09 PM)

quote:


No. It is something a few of us have been asking for. Its possible it will be added later in a patch if its not too hard to do.


It is on my list of things I'd like to do in a features patch. It would be done with a treaty that proposes a surrender; as the game is now, you can't effectively propose treaties to nations with whom you are at war. (The change I'm considering making is that treaties with a clause involving a surrender would not automatically be broken by nations who are at war, and that a surrender to a nation that proposed a treaty via a treaty clause would not award victory points.)


Eric



mogami -> RE: When does an AI Nation surrender? (7/29/2005 2:24:06 PM)

Hi, Now thats a nice picture but I think he needs to raise his draft age because that is taking "infantry" a step too far.



ian77 -> RE: When does an AI Nation surrender? (7/29/2005 2:31:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ericbabe

[
It is on my list of things I'd like to do in a features patch. It would be done with a treaty that proposes a surrender; as the game is now, you can't effectively propose treaties to nations with whom you are at war. (The change I'm considering making is that treaties with a clause involving a surrender would not automatically be broken by nations who are at war, and that a surrender to a nation that proposed a treaty via a treaty clause would not award victory points.)


Eric




Good news!

I dont think victory points are an issue, we just want to be able to end pointless wars, there are times when you would willing give up a province or cash for peace, but it is war or surrender, the more flexibility you can provide the better....though I presume the more flexibility the more difficult it is to code the AI[8|]

Keep up the good work!
Ian



mogami -> RE: When does an AI Nation surrender? (7/29/2005 2:36:28 PM)

Hi, A simple "Peace" treaty would be nice. The war simply ends with no conditions.



ian77 -> RE: When does an AI Nation surrender? (7/29/2005 3:01:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, A simple "Peace" treaty would be nice. The war simply ends with no conditions.


Isnt that a "ceasefire"? (which I have never managed to get the AI to agree to!)



ericbabe -> RE: When does an AI Nation surrender? (7/29/2005 6:14:00 PM)

quote:


Isnt that a "ceasefire"? (which I have never managed to get the AI to agree to!)


There is a ceasefire, yes. The AI will agree to ceasefires, but not very readily, I admit. A good AI tweak might be to accept ceasefires more readily between very distant opponents (Russia/Spain) when the enemy is not allied to another enemy.


Eric



marirosa -> RE: When does an AI Nation surrender? (7/30/2005 6:30:24 AM)

It should be also an option to surrender to various allies at once. If i war someone along with my allies, the foe always surrender to one each time (and leaving the surrender top the human player the last :( ).

Last time was Prusia. I (Sweden) was ally with Rusia and Austria and we dowed it. With no prussian army, the only way to get a surrender was each of us to besiege the capital.

Also last week Spain was at war with EVERYONE but still the NML was 800-1000 so it didn't surrender to anyone. I was playing SWE and managed to destroy the spanish fleet (bah, 8 miserable ships counting frigates and few privareers), and also send diplomats to Spain but it was all the game at war with everyone. I got the "all the world is alarmed with Swedem" but anyways, everyone was figthing Spain, not me [:D]



ArnaudB -> RE: When does an AI Nation surrender? (8/2/2005 1:56:31 PM)

ON the same subkect. Playing France in 1792 I managed to have Austria and Prussia sue for peace. I had 5,500 points for each treaty. then I was at war with Spain, and won, and again 5,500^points. Is this a maximum? Because with Spain I had conquered three provinces and had a diplomat more, I thought I read in the manual that DIplomats ans conquered province had an impact on surredering terms. ALso When I win battles i neer get more than 6 glory points even if there are over 20 000 thousands deads. I thoght the maximum was 10 ?

The young one on the picture is the future of the empire ! heir to the throne of France.



ArnaudB -> RE: When does an AI Nation surrender? (8/2/2005 1:57:16 PM)

As you see I type too fast... apologies



Dayvit781 -> RE: When does an AI Nation surrender? (8/3/2005 6:50:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ArnaudB

ON the same subkect. Playing France in 1792 I managed to have Austria and Prussia sue for peace. I had 5,500 points for each treaty. then I was at war with Spain, and won, and again 5,500^points. Is this a maximum? Because with Spain I had conquered three provinces and had a diplomat more, I thought I read in the manual that DIplomats ans conquered province had an impact on surredering terms. ALso When I win battles i neer get more than 6 glory points even if there are over 20 000 thousands deads. I thoght the maximum was 10 ?

The young one on the picture is the future of the empire ! heir to the throne of France.


I've had treaties with 7500 points and once (or a few times) a 10,000 points. I don't know what affects it, but I just accept whatever they give me when they surrender, usually when I or someone else conquer their capital. But I also try to fight a real war and take the provinces along the way.

I've seen huge glory swings from battles. As the manual says, you gain glory for inflicting casualties and lose it for sustaining them (makes sense). So I usually see battles between 8-32. But if both sides started the battle with over 100,000 troops, that doubles it, so I've seen huge swings come from those major battles. I really enjoy that part of the system. If yhou fight a major battle, you better win or your country could be going down the tubes soon. (because you not only lose morale, but all those men - pretty soon, you've got nothing left... riots, insurrections) FUN STUFF!



Grand_Armee -> RE: When does an AI Nation surrender? (8/3/2005 7:17:38 AM)

Holding control of their capital province i.e., repeatedly knocking back the relief forces, even if the city hasn't fallen does lead to surrender, it seems. France, 1814? Yep, makes sense to me. I had to fight 9 battles as the Prussians at Ile' de France for French to sue for peace. There were still 9k militia in the city.

Heh, luckily I'd just released some 50K Austrian prisoners who even joined me on detailed battles. I couldn't control them, but they were helpful when they weren't fixated on some garrison unit. They also gave up 1/2 of the casualties whenever we breached the walls, so 8k French killed only meant 8k Prussians and a like number of Austrians.

The more I play this game, the more I like it. Get rid of a few bugs and far reaching cossacks, and it'll be perfect. Might not need to buy EIA afterall. (just kidding)



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