List Of Known Bugs Remaining. (Full Version)

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Bodhi -> List Of Known Bugs Remaining. (8/2/2005 5:29:45 AM)

Is there one? If not, would one be useful?

I've just had a Paratroop unit disappear after being air-dropped onto, and successfully capturing, an unguarded enemy base. I'm sure I'm not the first to have seen this, but searching the forum hasn't brought up any matches that I can find.

As the forum search function fails to return results, and as the game is now a year after release, does anyone think it worth having a thread listing the remaining bugs and any possible work-arounds? I know 2by3 aren't against this in principle as they agreed to having one in the WaW forum. What does everyone think?



jwilkerson -> RE: List Of Known Bugs Remaining. (8/2/2005 5:44:47 AM)

I've lost a para unit during an airdrop ... and first occurance I recall was 2ndACR losing one as well. So with yours we have at least 3... 2ndACR and Joe discussion would've been around Dec 04 I think ...



witpqs -> RE: List Of Known Bugs Remaining. (8/2/2005 5:44:57 AM)

They've declined to publish one in the past. Maybe you can get them to change their minds?



Graycompany -> RE: List Of Known Bugs Remaining. (8/2/2005 5:57:04 AM)


quote:


As the forum search function fails to return results, and as the game is now a year after release, does anyone think it worth having a thread listing the remaining bugs and any possible work-arounds? I know 2by3 aren't against this in principle as they agreed to having one in the WaW forum. What does everyone think?




I will start the list

1. forum search; Known bug.[:D]



Bodhi -> RE: List Of Known Bugs Remaining. (8/2/2005 6:47:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

They've declined to publish one in the past. Maybe you can get them to change their minds?


Well they (Joel of 2by3) agreed to a bug list in the WaW forum.

As the game's over a year old now, and new patches are going to be less regular, it'd be handy to have a single reference source for bugs, and, as important, any known work arounds.



jwilkerson -> RE: List Of Known Bugs Remaining. (8/2/2005 7:17:43 AM)

Well if we start one and can maintain it - even if it is "unofficial" - it would be far better than nothing - like Halsey has maintained his "house rules" thread - for quite some time now - and even if everyone doesn't agree with all his house rules - you have the opportunity to snipe at them on that thread.

So same for bug list. But someone kind of needs to be the owner and continuously bump it .. and direct people to add things to it.

Another question might be - why isn't the " WITP support - sub-forum" essentially this list ? I report all things that I really think are bugs that aren't known there. One problem is many things there aren't bugs but just people needing to learn more about the system.

So if we want a "filtered" bug list. That may need to be manual for now.

But it needs an owner




Bodhi -> RE: List Of Known Bugs Remaining. (8/2/2005 7:23:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

I've lost a para unit during an airdrop ... and first occurance I recall was 2ndACR losing one as well. So with yours we have at least 3... 2ndACR and Joe discussion would've been around Dec 04 I think ...



Thanks. I thought I'd seen a mention of a para-related bug before, that's why I searched. In order to get a response from the search, I restricted to posts within 3 months: any wider timespan and the search often seems to time-out.

As I originally mentioned the bug, I may as well give a few more details here in case anyone else has seen it. Set up plenty of C-47s to drop the paras in on one turn. They appeared to get dropped and successfully shock attacked the base, capturing it. Their 75mm pak howitzers were left behind, but I left the C-47s on the troop transport mission for transferring the unit to see if they would be taken next turn. During the next turn resolution, the first couple of C47 groups indicated paras being transfered, later groups gave a supply transport message, so I assume everything that could be transferred was. However, after the turn had completed there was no sign of the para unit at the base, and it had disappeared from the list all land units screen.



jwilkerson -> RE: List Of Known Bugs Remaining. (8/2/2005 10:04:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bodhi


quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

I've lost a para unit during an airdrop ... and first occurance I recall was 2ndACR losing one as well. So with yours we have at least 3... 2ndACR and Joe discussion would've been around Dec 04 I think ...



Thanks. I thought I'd seen a mention of a para-related bug before, that's why I searched. In order to get a response from the search, I restricted to posts within 3 months: any wider timespan and the search often seems to time-out.

As I originally mentioned the bug, I may as well give a few more details here in case anyone else has seen it. Set up plenty of C-47s to drop the paras in on one turn. They appeared to get dropped and successfully shock attacked the base, capturing it. Their 75mm pak howitzers were left behind, but I left the C-47s on the troop transport mission for transferring the unit to see if they would be taken next turn. During the next turn resolution, the first couple of C47 groups indicated paras being transfered, later groups gave a supply transport message, so I assume everything that could be transferred was. However, after the turn had completed there was no sign of the para unit at the base, and it had disappeared from the list all land units screen.


2ndACR and I seemed to convince ourselves that the disappearances were related to losing the "parent fragment" ... so if the one plane flying the parent fragment was lost due to attrition or enemy action or flak .. then "unit be toast" ...

Some poor sod lost the 18UK Div around the same time, when 98% of it unloaded at Rangoon and then the Parent Fragment was sunk ... whole unit then was gone. So the incident of the 18th and our own experiences jelled the theory.

I haven't lost another para since .. but I did lose a whole Hindquarters at another point in time - same theory - loss of parent fragment = loss of entire unit. 2ndACR had made a rule for himself ... no tranporting LCA by air - period - too risky !




witpqs -> RE: List Of Known Bugs Remaining. (8/2/2005 10:22:07 AM)

Back in December I submitted a repeatable save of an air transported unit disappearing. I think the saves were going to Kid at the time, but I forget. Anyway, he said it did not repeat for him. This was one of the Australian ENG units with only men (no vehicles) - great for air transport if only they didn't vanish.

In current game I have air transported an USA AV Rgt. It's all av and support, good for air transport. I used only a squadron of C-47's, so it took a long time, maybe around 7 to 9 turns. I noticed something that might lend credence to the parent unit theory.

The unit at the target location was the sub, and the unit at the source location was the parent. In theory, once the target was bigger it should have become the parent, yes? That did not happen. I watched it every turn. I resolved to follow the advice on this board to stop the transfer until the unit at the target location became the parent. When I figured I had 1 or at most 2 more turns to go (it was hard to be sure and I didn't want to lose the unit and roll back) I stopped the transfer by standing down the C-47's. Sure enough, next turn the target became the parent. Good! So I restarted the transfer. Next turn, some more of the unit transferred, but there was a bit left. Here's the thing: the unit at the source location reverted back to being the parent! I again stopped the transfer, the parent switched, I restarted the transfer and the last bit of the unit transferred. All is well.



treespider -> RE: List Of Known Bugs Remaining. (8/2/2005 2:30:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bodhi


quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

I've lost a para unit during an airdrop ... and first occurance I recall was 2ndACR losing one as well. So with yours we have at least 3... 2ndACR and Joe discussion would've been around Dec 04 I think ...



Thanks. I thought I'd seen a mention of a para-related bug before, that's why I searched. In order to get a response from the search, I restricted to posts within 3 months: any wider timespan and the search often seems to time-out.

As I originally mentioned the bug, I may as well give a few more details here in case anyone else has seen it. Set up plenty of C-47s to drop the paras in on one turn. They appeared to get dropped and successfully shock attacked the base, capturing it. Their 75mm pak howitzers were left behind, but I left the C-47s on the troop transport mission for transferring the unit to see if they would be taken next turn. During the next turn resolution, the first couple of C47 groups indicated paras being transfered, later groups gave a supply transport message, so I assume everything that could be transferred was. However, after the turn had completed there was no sign of the para unit at the base, and it had disappeared from the list all land units screen.



It sounds like:

#1 You paradropped a fragment. Even though it is larger than the now parent which contained the howitzers.
#2 You left the transports on transport so ...they picked up the remaing parent unit in the next turn or two.
#3 When your last remaing bit (still considered the parent unit) joined the main fragment the unit disappears.

Frag discussed this in the Air transport rule....You need to pause the air transports one turn to allow the parent unit and the main fragment to switch names and then continue on with the air transport mission.

Workaround:
#1 Do not air tran the unit all at once!
#2 Pause one turn after the landed fragment is larger than the parent
#3 Continue air mission.

Using these rules I've been air transporting units all over the SRA with no problem in my PBEM with Toast.



michaelm75au -> RE: List Of Known Bugs Remaining. (8/2/2005 2:36:42 PM)

Hi
The parent unit seems to be the unit with the most support, not necessarily the one with the most number of devices/squads.
I ended up with one fragment which had almost all the (Inf Division) unit's TOE except for about 90% of the support. The parent unit basically had 90% of the support plus a few infantry squads. It stayed that way unitil I brought the parent to the fragment, and then they combined into one unit.

Michael



Graycompany -> RE: List Of Known Bugs Remaining. (8/2/2005 3:19:43 PM)

Bodhi, when the para troop wsa dropped, was it the whole unit or not?

what was the circumstances, this bug worrys me.



treespider -> RE: List Of Known Bugs Remaining. (8/2/2005 3:25:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Graycompany

Bodhi, when the para troop wsa dropped, was it the whole unit or not?

what was the circumstances, this bug worrys me.



In a later post he indicated the howitzers were not included in the initial drop.



Feinder -> RE: List Of Known Bugs Remaining. (8/2/2005 4:27:15 PM)

Political Point Conversion Cost -

You only have to pay the cost of the undamaged planes in a squadron. So if you have 3 flyable, and 9 damaged, you can transfer the 3 to a new base (they're now the parent), and then convert them to a new command. As the damaged planes repair, they can be recombined with the parent (undamaged), and they will be in the new command. Note that if you convert the "/1" unit of damaged planes (not the parent), they points are wasted and they will revert to the command of the parent.

If you simply made the conversion cost of the unit, the -MAX- cost of the unit, you'd see less off the mass exedous from PI/Malaya/SRA.

Same would be true for LCUs. As it stands now, the cost of the LCU is based on the non-disabled squads. If you simply made the conversion cost based on the TOE, you'd see far fewer units scrabling out of the away of the Axis offensive.

All that being said, I'm a big proponent of allowing cadres because of the under-representation of the Allied OB (and paying the full Political Points would effectively eliminate cadres). If this were to be implemented you'd see a more historical representation in PI/Malaya/SRA. However, you'd also see a very unhistorical mass extinction of LCUs. I believe that if the full Political Points were to be implemented, that the units should be allowed to rebuild from squads in the pool in 180 days or something similar.

-F-



Bodhi -> RE: List Of Known Bugs Remaining. (8/2/2005 4:37:44 PM)

Yep, I've rooted around the game saves that I have and had another look. Unfortunately I only have the autosaves from immediately after each turn resolution, I hadn't been bothering to make saves after entering all orders for a turn. In the turn where the paras were initially dropped, all troops except the howitzers did indeed make it to the destination. The remaining howitzers were, however, still designated as the main unit. I immediately ran another turn, without entering any new orders. This time the howitzers moved as before, later transports indicated they were only transporting supplies, but at the turn end, the paras were still present. [X(] Of course, I didn't plot any of the other moves (unrelated to the paras or transports) that I'd done originally, so the turn resolution won't have been exactly the same as before. So I don't have a game save that can reproduce the bug, only two saves that show the situation before and after. I must admit, I also find this worrying, especially as it's almost impossible to keep track of all units from turn to turn.



witpqs -> RE: List Of Known Bugs Remaining. (8/2/2005 9:01:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

Hi
The parent unit seems to be the unit with the most support, not necessarily the one with the most number of devices/squads.
I ended up with one fragment which had almost all the (Inf Division) unit's TOE except for about 90% of the support. The parent unit basically had 90% of the support plus a few infantry squads. It stayed that way unitil I brought the parent to the fragment, and then they combined into one unit.

Michael

Michael,

See my post above. In that case the parent unit was tiny (I'm talking when it switched back to being the parent unit). There's something weird in the routine that determines which unit is the parent. That might be the source of the bug, but who knows?



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