RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (Full Version)

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Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (9/20/2006 12:37:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

I don't believe I have posted a recent screen shot showing the medium resolution counters. I've added outlines and moved the shadowing to the right/bottom. I will probably make the shadowing a little larger (up from 1 to 2 or 3 pixels). This is zoom level 3, and I think all the numbers are easy to read (except maybe the # of units in a hex).

Great screen shot !
However, the shadowing are not visible, and what is this outline about ? Before, there was a Green outline for units that were available to perform actions during the step that is in play. Is the green outline replaced by this one ?

Selectable units still have the green outline. This screen shot is taken from setting up USSR reserves so no on map units are selectable.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (9/20/2006 12:40:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

I don't believe I have posted a recent screen shot showing the medium resolution counters. I've added outlines and moved the shadowing to the right/bottom. I will probably make the shadowing a little larger (up from 1 to 2 or 3 pixels). This is zoom level 3, and I think all the numbers are easy to read (except maybe the # of units in a hex).

Great screen shot !
However, the shadowing are not visible, and what is this outline about ? Before, there was a Green outline for units that were available to perform actions during the step that is in play. Is the green outline replaced by this one ?


Also, why are the hexsides that black, especialy those of the hexes bordering the sea ?
It was quite smoother before, wasn't it ?


I just changed the thickness for the shadows from 3 to 5, so they are now more visible.

Good catch on the hex outlines - there are several sections of map rendering code I modified recently that might have caused the (unwanted) change. I'll investigate.



Zorachus99 -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (9/20/2006 4:15:54 AM)

Gorgeous !!! [&o]

[image]http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/upfiles/16701/28749D5846F44FDC85BA23952E589B04.jpg[/image]



Neilster -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (9/20/2006 7:39:11 AM)

quote:

However, the shadowing (is) not visible,...


What about this part of Patrice's question?

I preferred the units without the white outlines, as below (or have I missed something?).

Cheers, Neilster


[image]local://upfiles/10515/028F73FF5D9E4D74925BBCB9F17E0939.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (9/20/2006 8:20:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

quote:

However, the shadowing (is) not visible,...


What about this part of Patrice's question?

I preferred the units without the white outlines, as below (or have I missed something?).

Cheers, Neilster

The advice I got from the artist was to use an outline at all times (he calls it 'keylining') and to move the shadows to the right/bottom. He also wanted thinner shadows, which I overdid and today I thickened them up some more.

Also at his suggestion, I am using a little black or white square as background for the status indicators (if you look real close you can see one for the Russian HQ). That solves the problem of the status indicators disappearing against some terrain types. I still want better status indicators instead of bland solid circles and I continue to nag him to create some for me. His first attempt wasn't satisfactory.

I exepct to increase the font size for the # of units in a hex for zoom levels 3 and less - perhaps even for level 4.

Another change that has happened since the screen shot you showed is that I am using Patrice's silhouettes for the air and naval units. There are just a couple more touchups to them I want to make. I also repositioned the NATO symbols and numeric factors for the land units lower in the frame.



Neilster -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (9/20/2006 8:29:19 AM)

Ok. I'm just a bit concerned that after going to the work of adding shadows and rounding the corners to make them look like real counters, we are spoiling the effect with this keylining. Could we see some more new screenshots at different zoom levels?

Cheers, Neilster



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (9/20/2006 8:49:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

Ok. I'm just a bit concerned that after going to the work of adding shadows and rounding the corners to make them look like real counters, we are spoiling the effect with this keylining. Could we see some more new screenshots at different zoom levels?

Cheers, Neilster


Yes, but later.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (9/21/2006 3:39:10 AM)

I am working my way through all the 100+ forms and coverting the components on each to the new theme. Here's a screen shot of the USA scrap form for Global War

[image]local://upfiles/16701/2E8B46105D9A4DF4809EC5335B23C83D.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (9/21/2006 3:40:49 AM)

Here is an example of the Units Panel for the Italian player. This shows all the units in taranto.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/8C0F9CA693C54D4A8A90921C0EF9D8A2.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (9/21/2006 3:43:10 AM)

Here is the simple popup message form. You know, that annoying screen you have to click OK on even when things aren't OK.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/F1C475A5F0894AC99FBD7B894CA1B0E4.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (9/21/2006 3:45:45 AM)

Here is the Communists setting up. That is done by the USSR player, so the colors are for the USSR.

The units can set up in proximity to LanChow and SiAn. Whichever hex they are placed in then becomes Communist Chinese.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/70603EF2B53840E4A9615173CDB97F91.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (9/21/2006 3:47:21 AM)

Last in the series. Here is the Nationalist Chinese color scheme/theme

[image]local://upfiles/16701/42E15C17F2784195977886CC2D2E949E.jpg[/image]



Neilster -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (9/21/2006 4:29:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Here is the simple popup message form. You know, that annoying screen you have to click OK on even when things aren't OK.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/F1C475A5F0894AC99FBD7B894CA1B0E4.jpg[/image]


You don't have to click OK to get rid of it. You can undo each corner with a flat-bladed screwdriver to remove it manually. [:'(]

These forms look good and there is something strangely satisfying about pushing those metalized buttons.

Cheers, Neilster



composer99 -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (9/21/2006 7:09:29 AM)

Lookin' good!



GJK -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (9/21/2006 8:17:49 AM)

FWIW, a simple 3d bevel/shadow effect that I use for my counters that I do for VASSAL modules is a few single pixel width lines arranged like so (enlarged):

[image]http://www.garykrockover.com/uploads/ITQF-counter-sample.gif[/image]

Which looks this on the map:

[image]http://www.vassalengine.org/community/vassal_modules/260/html/images/ITQF2-Screen1.gif[/image]

Too heavy on the drop shadow and the counters look like they're levitating above the map (such as in the 'North Sea' screen above. I think you discovered that when you posted that you went a bit heavy on it there.

Just my observation, but the other counters don't look beveled but like little square blocks, which may or may not be the effect that you're looking for.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (9/21/2006 8:41:15 AM)

Interesting. I'll consider it. Scaling for 7 functional levels of zoom is always a problem.

Nice map.



rtamesis -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (9/21/2006 9:30:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GJK

FWIW, a simple 3d bevel/shadow effect that I use for my counters that I do for VASSAL modules is a few single pixel width lines arranged like so (enlarged):

[image]http://www.garykrockover.com/uploads/ITQF-counter-sample.gif[/image]

Which looks this on the map:

[image]http://www.vassalengine.org/community/vassal_modules/260/html/images/ITQF2-Screen1.gif[/image]

Too heavy on the drop shadow and the counters look like they're levitating above the map (such as in the 'North Sea' screen above. I think you discovered that when you posted that you went a bit heavy on it there.

Just my observation, but the other counters don't look beveled but like little square blocks, which may or may not be the effect that you're looking for.



As Sacha Baron Cohen's outrageous Kazakhstani reporter Borat Sagdiyev would say, "NICE!"[:D]

Seriously, that's really beautiful graphics work on that map and counters.[&o]



Neilster -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (9/21/2006 10:45:53 AM)

These shoes is good for chase ladies!!!!


Editted by Moderator



Neilster -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (9/21/2006 10:48:03 AM)

Check out the glamour on his right (or left, for that matter).

Cheers, Neilster


Edited by Moderator



Neilster -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (9/21/2006 10:54:11 AM)

Our capital Almaty now have toilet!

Edited by Moderator



Greyshaft -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (9/21/2006 12:38:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

Our capital Almaty now have toilet!

Edited by Moderator

Neilster... I'm not exactly sure how to put this... I may have missed something here but it seemed that your post had nothing at all to do with MWiF, Matrix, Wargames, good taste or reality. Remind me never to view your attachments ever again. [sm=vomit-smiley-020.gif]

um...when I say 'attachments' I am, of course, referring to file attachments... [:-]




wfzimmerman -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (9/21/2006 3:53:55 PM)

for what it's worth, in all these forms, I keep wishing that the view of the units in the "action panel" was one or two zoom levels higher. They are too small and I do a lot of squinting.



wfzimmerman -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (9/21/2006 3:55:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Here is the simple popup message form. You know, that annoying screen you have to click OK on even when things aren't OK.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/F1C475A5F0894AC99FBD7B894CA1B0E4.jpg[/image]


You don't have to click OK to get rid of it. You can undo each corner with a flat-bladed screwdriver to remove it manually. [:'(]

These forms look good and there is something strangely satisfying about pushing those metalized buttons.

Cheers, Neilster


do we really need to have messages that require "Ok" confirmation but provide no alternative choioce of action? Couldn't we just have a "notifications window" where these informational messages scroll by?



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (9/21/2006 9:00:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wfzimmerman
for what it's worth, in all these forms, I keep wishing that the view of the units in the "action panel" was one or two zoom levels higher. They are too small and I do a lot of squinting.


Oh, I agree. And I have thought long and hard about making the unit depictions larger (or to let the player set the size). But larger means fewer units displayed which is really unattractive - especially for the setup screen. My solution is to let the players change to medium resolution which solves the visibilty problem at the expense of fine detail.

I haven't written the code to automate the transition between high, medium, and low resolution as a function of zoom level. But when I do, I intend to let the players also choose a resolution setting to be used for all the forms. This would have the rather strange effect of being able to pick up a medium resolution unit from the setup tray/form and then as you move the unit/stack over the map (which is using high resolution) the unit depiction would magically change to high resoultion.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (9/21/2006 9:04:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wfzimmerman
quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Here is the simple popup message form. You know, that annoying screen you have to click OK on even when things aren't OK.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/F1C475A5F0894AC99FBD7B894CA1B0E4.jpg[/image]


You don't have to click OK to get rid of it. You can undo each corner with a flat-bladed screwdriver to remove it manually. [:'(]

These forms look good and there is something strangely satisfying about pushing those metalized buttons.

Cheers, Neilster

do we really need to have messages that require "Ok" confirmation but provide no alternative choioce of action? Couldn't we just have a "notifications window" where these informational messages scroll by?


Hmmm. I could give these messages a temporal existence, so without any action by the player they would disappear after a few seconds. The downside is that the player might not have been paying attention and miss the message: "What was that? Was it important?".



wfzimmerman -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (9/21/2006 9:12:56 PM)

the temporal issue is why the scrolling notifications window. it could just be a view of a subset of the (already heavily designed I know) game log.

I've seen this technique used effectively in Hearts of Iron (which has such an awful proliferation of notifications that there is a whole set of screens to configure how frequently they pop up). MWIF is not as badly off, but still, why pop up a message simply so that I have to bat it down?



wfzimmerman -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (9/21/2006 9:13:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: wfzimmerman
for what it's worth, in all these forms, I keep wishing that the view of the units in the "action panel" was one or two zoom levels higher. They are too small and I do a lot of squinting.


Oh, I agree. And I have thought long and hard about making the unit depictions larger (or to let the player set the size). But larger means fewer units displayed which is really unattractive - especially for the setup screen. My solution is to let the players change to medium resolution which solves the visibilty problem at the expense of fine detail.

I haven't written the code to automate the transition between high, medium, and low resolution as a function of zoom level. But when I do, I intend to let the players also choose a resolution setting to be used for all the forms. This would have the rather strange effect of being able to pick up a medium resolution unit from the setup tray/form and then as you move the unit/stack over the map (which is using high resolution) the unit depiction would magically change to high resoultion.


I like that. it gives a feel of deploying the unit...



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (9/21/2006 10:34:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wfzimmerman
the temporal issue is why the scrolling notifications window. it could just be a view of a subset of the (already heavily designed I know) game log.

I've seen this technique used effectively in Hearts of Iron (which has such an awful proliferation of notifications that there is a whole set of screens to configure how frequently they pop up). MWIF is not as badly off, but still, why pop up a message simply so that I have to bat it down?


There are 50+ places where "informational messages" appear. A player acknowledgement is warranted inmost cases. The general categories where this occurs are:

1 - the player tried to do something that can't be done (no air missions remaining)
2 - the player asked for something that doesn't exist (no trade agreements exist)
3 - another player (remote location) has done something that is important and is being reported (Rumania Claim rejected)
4 - the program has done something automatically; these are very rare (the remaining air units moving to the air reserve).

I don't think these are especially intrusive. There is no need to maintain a running log of them.



GJK -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (9/22/2006 4:20:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rtamesis



As Sacha Baron Cohen's outrageous Kazakhstani reporter Borat Sagdiyev would say, "NICE!"[:D]

Seriously, that's really beautiful graphics work on that map and counters.[&o]

Thanks! I have a number of VASSAL modules that I've done and on each I redraw the maps and counters, it's fun. At any rate, MWiF is my most anticipated game, I've been following the discussions from afar for a while. I have the 4th (5th?) edition of the game but have never played it. I'm hoping that MWiF will give me a chance to learn the system and enjoy it.



Neilster -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (9/22/2006 10:11:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

Our capital Almaty now have toilet!

Edited by Moderator

Neilster... I'm not exactly sure how to put this... I may have missed something here but it seemed that your post had nothing at all to do with MWiF, Matrix, Wargames, good taste or reality. Remind me never to view your attachments ever again. [sm=vomit-smiley-020.gif]

um...when I say 'attachments' I am, of course, referring to file attachments... [:-]




You've never heard of Borat?

He was mentioned in the post before mine. He's got a movie coming out too. The Kazakhstan government hate this character but the more they try to muzzle him the more publicity they generate for him.

Cheers, Neilster




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