RE: Memo (Full Version)

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Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Memo (7/21/2008 6:05:27 PM)

Ian,

You're right, the layout could be improved. If you saw what I started with (inherited from CWIF), though, (smaller font size and absolutely no white space) ...

I just threw in the flag at the end where I had room.

I need a long wide panel for the Resource Locations, so there is a strong visual imperative to make the Summary Panel the same width.

The buttons are almost certainly going to change since CWIF used "Aviod a hex/sea area" to determine the path from a resource to a factory; and that design decision received more criticism from the players than any other element of CWIF. Although, I haven't worked on a replacement design yet.

I would like the Insert Map and Resouce Locations panel to be as big as possible.
---
I'll play around with the layout some more this morning.



Froonp -> RE: Memo (7/21/2008 6:06:18 PM)

There are a lot of numbers here.
A few of them, the most significant and important ones, should be highlighted either by another color, or simply by being bold.

For example :
Production Multiple.
Production Points after SB
Build Points Available.
Oil Resources Saved (well, I don't know if this is this one, but the one that shows how many Oil you will have saved AFTER production is important to know -- the one before is not really important, as either it is a saved oil or a printed oil, but this has the same effect to it is unimportant to know)
Build Points saved.

"Point" should be added beside "Production", so that it reads "Production Point" instead of "Production". "Production" is vague, and "Production Point" is something that is defined in the rules.

Write "Oil" instead of "Oil Resources". This takes room for un-needed information IMO.
Same for normal Resources, write "Resources" instead of "Other Resources". Better, use "RP", for Resource Points.

Also, what are the "Saved Build Points Used" ? This form is before production is done, so you don't know how many are used.



meisterchow -> RE: Memo (7/21/2008 6:19:40 PM)

Ooooooh, I cannot wait to get my grubby little hands on this game!!!!  Again, Steve, you are doing a fantastic job of compiling important information into readable formats for players.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Memo (7/21/2008 7:42:22 PM)

Here is today's first revision (from Brute Force).

I still have a few visual touchups to do, but I was able to increase the number of locations visible at one time to 10.

The list of locations needs to be sorted, and sortable by the player.

The label for Newly Saved (Oil Points) should be changed to Being Saved. I want to look into how that is different from Controlled.

I really haven't examined the code in detail to see where these numbers come from, though I have run through all the calculations for generating production and build points.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/9669EC559D904ACE86CFED014EAFDF64.jpg[/image]



Froonp -> RE: Memo (7/21/2008 8:26:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Here is today's first revision (from Brute Force).

I still have a few visual touchups to do, but I was able to increase the number of locations visible at one time to 10.

The list of locations needs to be sorted, and sortable by the player.

The label for Newly Saved (Oil Points) should be changed to Being Saved. I want to look into how that is different from Controlled.

I really haven't examined the code in detail to see where these numbers come from, though I have run through all the calculations for generating production and build points.

This is an immense progress to me !!!
Now things are clear in the upper part, with the bold headings !!!!

Congratulations !

I just don't like very much the icon for the uncontrolled resources. What does pressing this button will display ?

Also, and this is true for all forms where flags are used as buttons, it would be more beautiful, and the players would understand immediately that the flags are buttons, if the flags had a bottom & right shadow.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Memo (7/21/2008 8:41:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Here is today's first revision (from Brute Force).

I still have a few visual touchups to do, but I was able to increase the number of locations visible at one time to 10.

The list of locations needs to be sorted, and sortable by the player.

The label for Newly Saved (Oil Points) should be changed to Being Saved. I want to look into how that is different from Controlled.

I really haven't examined the code in detail to see where these numbers come from, though I have run through all the calculations for generating production and build points.

This is an immense progress to me !!!
Now things are clear in the upper part, with the bold headings !!!!

Congratulations !

I just don't like very much the icon for the uncontrolled resources. What does pressing this button will display ?

Also, and this is true for all forms where flags are used as buttons, it would be more beautiful, and the players would understand immediately that the flags are buttons, if the flags had a bottom & right shadow.

Well, I thought about using just a solid white flag for uncontrolled resources (held by neutral minor countries) but that didn't seem quite right. I am open to sugestions, ... and examples (BMP 24 bit color, 84 pixels wide by 56 pixels high).



Norman42 -> RE: Memo (7/21/2008 8:43:06 PM)

I would just put the resource symbol on a white flag for uncontrolled.



Froonp -> RE: Memo (7/21/2008 8:54:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Norman42

I would just put the resource symbol on a white flag for uncontrolled.



[image]local://upfiles/10447/218A077B2FA8458BB0601B69F823F207.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Memo (7/21/2008 8:56:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp


quote:

ORIGINAL: Norman42

I would just put the resource symbol on a white flag for uncontrolled.



[image]local://upfiles/10447/218A077B2FA8458BB0601B69F823F207.jpg[/image]

Since oil resources are also shown, perhaps non-oil and oil images side-by-side?



Froonp -> MWIF Game Interface Design (7/21/2008 8:59:40 PM)

Or :

[image]local://upfiles/10447/5DE2F5B14D9F4754A5A72BAE5391EFBA.jpg[/image]



Froonp -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/21/2008 9:03:53 PM)

or...

[image]local://upfiles/10447/517963030F1342509619764E09624672.jpg[/image]



Froonp -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/21/2008 9:04:34 PM)

Or...

[image]local://upfiles/10447/BE57D592D80148DBBD322C672C328B27.jpg[/image]



lomyrin -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/21/2008 9:05:20 PM)

I was not too happy with your first versions of the form but now it has improved a great deal and it is looking very good.

Lars



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/21/2008 10:52:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lomyrin

I was not too happy with your first versions of the form but now it has improved a great deal and it is looking very good.

Lars

My first attempt is rarely the final version. People point out weaknesses and then I can work on buffing and polishing.



Taxman66 -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/21/2008 11:43:51 PM)

I'd consider adding "Neutral" or "Uncontrolled" either under the button or as a transparent text over the button.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/21/2008 11:52:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

I'd consider adding "Neutral" or "Uncontrolled" either under the button or as a transparent text over the button.

Neutral doesn't work since some resources are owned by neutral countries and shipped to major powers that are at war (e.g., Swedish resources).

I don't like Uncontrolled as a label because it is 4 syllables, but it is the most accurate adjective I've been able to come up with.

==============
Second version from today (from the start of Global War, so Vichy France does not exist). While more comments are welcome, I consider this done, by the way.



[image]local://upfiles/16701/ACDAD960AB4C46389BB1225FAEFF95F1.jpg[/image]



terje439 -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/21/2008 11:54:41 PM)

*edited*



Plainian -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/22/2008 12:26:09 AM)

New layout looks good. Its layed out in a logical way which makes sense and you can easily follow. Only thing I don't like is the "Total Resources" section. It looks a bit lost where it is? I like the way that the national flag is on the left and the factory information is directly under it. Sort of like national information. Is there any way of moving the Total Resources heading and figure under this as well? 



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/22/2008 1:42:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Plain Ian

New layout looks good. Its layed out in a logical way which makes sense and you can easily follow. Only thing I don't like is the "Total Resources" section. It looks a bit lost where it is? I like the way that the national flag is on the left and the factory information is directly under it. Sort of like national information. Is there any way of moving the Total Resources heading and figure under this as well? 

I seriuously thought about it. There isn't room without making things look squished though.

On the other hand, there are 2 good reasona for placing it where it is: (1) it is arguably the most important number, so giving it is own place with a lot of space around it is good, and (2) it is a sum of oil & non-oil resources, which are in the two columns above and to its left.



Orm -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/22/2008 2:38:06 AM)

I would like the Build Points Available in bold since that may be the most important piece of information on the form.

-B



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/22/2008 3:13:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

I would like the Build Points Available in bold since that may be the most important piece of information on the form.

-B

Ok. Mainly because it is the number that is used by the next form in the sequence of play (Production).



Neilster -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/22/2008 1:58:40 PM)

As a suggestion, how about "Free resources"?

Cheers, Neilster



bredsjomagnus -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/22/2008 3:33:30 PM)

Nice form but...

I think it would be better if it, under the action column, said for example "2/2 used", "0/1 used" instead of, as it is now, "2 unused". That would make it easier to get the "factory situation".

Magnus



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/22/2008 6:36:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bredsjomagnus

Nice form but...

I think it would be better if it, under the action column, said for example "2/2 used", "0/1 used" instead of, as it is now, "2 unused". That would make it easier to get the "factory situation".

Magnus

I have some extra room for that panel so I think I will make the Action column wider.

That will let me have the entry read: "2 of 2 Producing", "1 of 3 Producing", "0 of 1 Producing".

This presents the information as a positive. 'Unused' is slightly harder to understand and visually looks similar to 'Used'.

I prefer "0 of 1" instead of 0/1, which requires the player to interpret what the slash means.

Thank you for pointing out this weakness.



YohanTM2 -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/22/2008 7:40:19 PM)

Dormant?

Idle?

Free?



quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

I'd consider adding "Neutral" or "Uncontrolled" either under the button or as a transparent text over the button.

Neutral doesn't work since some resources are owned by neutral countries and shipped to major powers that are at war (e.g., Swedish resources).

I don't like Uncontrolled as a label because it is 4 syllables, but it is the most accurate adjective I've been able to come up with.

==============
Second version from today (from the start of Global War, so Vichy France does not exist). While more comments are welcome, I consider this done, by the way.



[image]local://upfiles/16701/ACDAD960AB4C46389BB1225FAEFF95F1.jpg[/image]




Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/22/2008 10:24:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yohan

Dormant?

Idle?

Free?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
quote:

ORIGINAL: Taxman66
I'd consider adding "Neutral" or "Uncontrolled" either under the button or as a transparent text over the button.

Neutral doesn't work since some resources are owned by neutral countries and shipped to major powers that are at war (e.g., Swedish resources).

I don't like Uncontrolled as a label because it is 4 syllables, but it is the most accurate adjective I've been able to come up with.


Thanks, but ...

I'm just hard to please I guess.

Some major powers have more resources than factories, or they are unable to set up convoy pipelines to carry all their resources to factories, so those resources are not used. Players might interpret Dormant, or Idle as including those resources.

Free just has many possible interpretations which are not what is intended.

I am resigned to using Uncontrolled (perhaps I'll get use to it).



sajbalk -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/22/2008 11:31:07 PM)

What is the category under build points for "no path" indicate?




Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/23/2008 12:03:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sajbalk

What is the category under build points for "no path" indicate?



I don't know.

I will have to read through the code to see how CWIF calculated this number. Then maybe I can figure out what the implied restriction on spending saved build points is all about.



Orm -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/23/2008 1:11:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Thanks, but ...

I'm just hard to please I guess.

Some major powers have more resources than factories, or they are unable to set up convoy pipelines to carry all their resources to factories, so those resources are not used. Players might interpret Dormant, or Idle as including those resources.

Free just has many possible interpretations which are not what is intended.

I am resigned to using Uncontrolled (perhaps I'll get use to it).



Inactive resources?

-Orm



paulderynck -> RE: MWIF Game Interface Design (7/23/2008 6:08:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sajbalk

What is the category under build points for "no path" indicate?


I'd bet it is resources you control that cannot be traced to any factory by rail or by sea.



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