i need a trick to save luxuries and textiles (Full Version)

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marirosa -> i need a trick to save luxuries and textiles (8/3/2005 2:25:49 PM)

I have a big problem; i own Spain, France, Italy, Prussia and Austria but the parts are greater than the whole.

I know about waste but had the theory that if i get 10 new provinces i can get one more of every thing (money, textiles, luxuries, timber, ...).

This theory don't work. As you are bigger, your population eats more and more stuff. More food, more wine, more textiles and more luxuries so for each 10 new provinces you get +1 production but your demand increase by 10, so you get 9 less of each than before.

Also i noticed there is a point when even the money have waste, so to maintain the same amount of armies, i need to raise more taxes.




ian77 -> RE: i need a trick to save luxuries and textiles (8/3/2005 3:51:31 PM)

It is too late now, but don't over extend... "Glory" is the aim of the game, not a vast empire... one of the reasons I enjoy COG is that the player is discouraged from building a juggernaut that can defeat all AI powers combined.



Hard Sarge -> RE: i need a trick to save luxuries and textiles (8/3/2005 4:49:41 PM)

Interesting concept
but from what I have seen, you get the most Glory for winning battles, taking Cities, winning wars, and forcing and getting peace treaties

LOL, maybe in the treaties you get from winning the war, you can give them back the Cities you took, so you can take them again in the next war

sounds like Modern warfare

HARD_Sarge



Hurz_slith -> RE: i need a trick to save luxuries and textiles (8/3/2005 5:00:19 PM)

Question: Would releasing protectorates help in this situation? Or do you only lose the control on them while you still have to pay food and luxury goods?



Hard Sarge -> RE: i need a trick to save luxuries and textiles (8/3/2005 5:23:22 PM)

I believe, if you release them , they become indepents again, so they would be under there own control and you would not longer gain or lose anything to them

HARD_Sarge




marirosa -> RE: i need a trick to save luxuries and textiles (8/3/2005 6:38:24 PM)

There is a problem with protectorates. If i conquer a protectorate, like all the italian provinces of Austria, then i can't release back as protectorates, they became native provinces.



Jordan -> RE: i need a trick to save luxuries and textiles (8/3/2005 6:52:31 PM)

There should be an option to make protectorates of conquered countries. This would also enable you to make the Confederation of the Rhine, Italy, etc which is nearly impossible to do with the current set-up (yes, I'm sure someone has done it, but was it worth the trouble?).

You shouldn't receive the full economic or manpower benefits from a protectorate but it should help with regard to waste and the compounding population problem you describe.




Mynok -> RE: i need a trick to save luxuries and textiles (8/3/2005 7:27:34 PM)


You can make conquered minors protectorates. Go to the Country Details list from Diplomacy screen (I believe). Scroll down and if you see the minor listed, there will be a P button there to turn it into a protectorate.




ArnaudB -> RE: i need a trick to save luxuries and textiles (8/3/2005 10:55:05 PM)

Did anyone manage to become the protector of a minor by diplomacy (i e not defending in war)? In the game I play it is crazy, all minor become protectorate of AI nations, even if i am at 1000 relationship and the AI is at -100 he gets the protectorate.



ian77 -> RE: i need a trick to save luxuries and textiles (8/4/2005 1:41:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ArnaudB

Did anyone manage to become the protector of a minor by diplomacy (i e not defending in war)? In the game I play it is crazy, all minor become protectorate of AI nations, even if i am at 1000 relationship and the AI is at -100 he gets the protectorate.



Sometimes they ask without war... and it is very annoying when a minor you have been courting goes off with someone else, worst so far for me was Barvaria going to Russia, me +12,566, AI -200ish. Oh how I laughed and really enjoyed seeing 280,000 russian troops appear next to my Home Army of 120,000 while Nap and the boys were visiting Poland.[8|]



Ralegh -> RE: i need a trick to save luxuries and textiles (8/4/2005 4:59:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ArnaudB
Did anyone manage to become the protector of a minor by diplomacy (i e not defending in war)? ...


Many times. Sometimes, they approach me ("enemies: none"), and sometimes I use the right click menu to ask them [yes, thats right - if the relationship is good enough, when you right click on them it will have 'form protectorate' as an option!]



marirosa -> RE: i need a trick to save luxuries and textiles (8/4/2005 6:11:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok
Go to the Country Details list from Diplomacy screen (I believe). Scroll down and if you see the minor listed, there will be a P button there to turn it into a protectorate.



The problem is most of the times they are not listed anymore. After one or two change of hands the minor disspaear of such list, so it is not possible anymore liberate (that's why is so hard to make Kingdom of Bavaria, Italy or any other.

Also, if i conquered all Spain and Austria, got all theirs colonies and own Madrid and Vienna, i can't make a new Spain or Austria as protectorates, kingdom or whatever.

There is no easy way to get rid of provinces, once conquered.



Hurz_slith -> RE: i need a trick to save luxuries and textiles (8/4/2005 11:19:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ralegh

Many times. Sometimes, they approach me ("enemies: none"), and sometimes I use the right click menu to ask them [yes, thats right - if the relationship is good enough, when you right click on them it will have 'form protectorate' as an option!]


I never saw this option until now. How big has the relationship to be (5000, 10000, more)?



ian77 -> RE: i need a trick to save luxuries and textiles (8/4/2005 1:59:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ralegh


Many times. Sometimes, they approach me ("enemies: none"), and sometimes I use the right click menu to ask them [yes, thats right - if the relationship is good enough, when you right click on them it will have 'form protectorate' as an option!]



Ralegh, are you saying that minors only/are more likely to come over to you via diplomacy when you are at peace with everyone?

This might explain their reluctance to join me...



Hard Sarge -> RE: i need a trick to save luxuries and textiles (8/4/2005 2:27:28 PM)

in my Current game, I sort of got a chuckle out of Russia, on the first turn, DOW on Portagul, LOL, that was silly, what is Russia going to do down there

so I sent a little money there way, then UK and I got into a little bidding war with them, the a few months, later, I get asked if I would protect them, sure, NP Dude

Russia got mad at me, but I told them off, and they slunk alway with there tail between there legs

I like to throw 5 bucks or so at a Minor, I know I will not have a chance to get, then watch all the other sides, start throwing all there money into it

BUT it does seem like the side with the highest level, doesn't get to be the one asked for help when they need it

HARD_Sarge



ian77 -> RE: i need a trick to save luxuries and textiles (8/4/2005 2:36:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

BUT it does seem like the side with the highest level, doesn't get to be the one asked for help when they need it


It does seem to pan out that way..



Reg Pither -> RE: i need a trick to save luxuries and textiles (8/4/2005 2:54:45 PM)

I've no idea if this is how it works, but is there any sort of 'fear factor' built into the AI's decisions? Even though they might like France better, they may be more scared of Prussia and so ask Prussia for protection in case the alternatives provoke her, or even some other country. Just a thought...



ian77 -> RE: i need a trick to save luxuries and textiles (8/4/2005 2:59:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reg Pither

I've no idea if this is how it works, but is there any sort of 'fear factor' built into the AI's decisions? Even though they might like France better, they may be more scared of Prussia and so ask Prussia for protection in case the alternatives provoke her, or even some other country. Just a thought...


It would be nice to know a little more about the AI "decision" making.



jhdeerslayer -> RE: i need a trick to save luxuries and textiles (8/4/2005 4:03:21 PM)

Yea, I would love to know how many points it takes to get a minor to consider forming a protectorate with me.



Ralegh -> RE: i need a trick to save luxuries and textiles (8/4/2005 5:17:46 PM)

This isn't holy writ- its my best guess from what I've seen.

a) I have had protectorates accepted down at about 1500 relationship. The insane levels some of you are talking about are due to the AI having too much cash at higher difficulty levels IMHO (I want a rebalance, so they get more materiel and less cash at the higher difficulty levels - maybe in patch #2.) I can't compete for cash incentives with the AI at Napoleon - sometimes I can sneak in and grab something, but bidding wars belong to the AI.
b) The % difference to the next in line is an important factor - not just the absolute level.
c) Countries ARE more likely to want a protector if a big baddy in the region is on the warpath (some sort of threat assessment).
d) Countries are more likely to want YOU as a protector if you are not at war with anyone. [I thought they should love you more if you are at war with their enemy - and they do - but they prefer you to be at peace, so you can concentrate your all on protecting them, presumably.]
e) I don't think there is any catering for distance in the calcs, although the inital levels are somewhat influenced by distance. There is no bonus for contiguous borders, although I think there should be. Probably hard to figure out what to do with the islands (including Britain).




Ralegh -> RE: i need a trick to save luxuries and textiles (8/4/2005 5:19:35 PM)

quote:

Ralegh, are you saying that minors only/are more likely to come over to you via diplomacy when you are at peace with everyone?

This might explain their reluctance to join me...


Ian, I wasn't saying that (I was refering to the minor not actually being at war with anyone) - but I should, because that is true too. See post above.



ian77 -> RE: i need a trick to save luxuries and textiles (8/5/2005 2:58:08 AM)

Thanks for your very useful insights.

Ian



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