RE: News from the Beta - Deviation List

RE: News from the Beta - Deviation List (Full Version)

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Ralegh -> RE: News from the Beta - Deviation List (9/13/2005 8:32:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Titi as asked by someone else, what about forced access Sorry, I must have missed that question. Forced access is an EIH rule. Not currently planned for v1 of EIANW. Although it is one of my favs... I'll try to remember to vote for that one.

j-s -> RE: News from the Beta - Deviation List (9/13/2005 11:33:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ralegh Forced access is an EIH rule. It is on EiA errata

JavaJoe -> RE: News from the Beta - Deviation List (9/15/2005 12:31:32 AM)
Are you gentleman actual players of EIA? It doesn't appear to be so. Perhaps I should rephrase that, are you fantaical EiA players? [;)] quote: ORIGINAL: Ralegh quote: ORIGINAL: Titi as asked by someone else, what about forced access Sorry, I must have missed that question. Forced access is an EIH rule. Not currently planned for v1 of EIANW. Although it is one of my favs... I'll try to remember to vote for that one.

Roads -> RE: News from the Beta - Deviation List (9/19/2005 8:39:49 PM)
My 2 cents 1. Forced march Too bad, but I don't think it's a huge dea. 2. Defender retirement into the city (but you can choose to be in or out in your turn) Makes defense quite a bit tougher. Again too bad, but not sure it's awful 3. Naval pursuit (Losers are retreated to a port by the computer. Winners stay in the location of the combat.) Hard to know what that will do. Probably necessary for PBEM, which is how I would plan to play. 4. Besieged port city supply This I really would like to see implemented. Hurts the game a lot IMHO 5. Corps on loan (the peace treaty term) No biggie 6. Besieger assault for minor power (major powers can) As described in the later post - no biggie. 7. British change to VPs Changes the dynamics a bit, but I'm not so sure it matters. 8. Bidding for countries [game facilitates adding the final bids in, but not the process] Can be done off line, so I don't care. 9. Other campaigns and scenarios (only the grand campaign is implemented in v1) Fine 10. Scuttling of ships Unecessary 11. Demobilizing Ditto, no great loss. 12. Repatriating a neutral garrison in a siege Depends what the alternative is and how cheesy you can be. Optional rules not available in game 13. Militia conversion Stupid rule anyway. Tough luck if you built too many militia. 14. Large fleets I don't like this rule eithe, although I can see why people like it. 15. Limited supply I'd like it, but not a big deal. 16. New political combinations such as Kingdoms of Italy, Westphalia, Bavaria, Two Sicilies and the Confederation of the Rhine [Poland and the Ottoman Empire ARE in the game] I think this is a good choice. Poland and Ottomans are the most important. It would be nice to allow some way for the extra fleets to be accessed. 17. Britain and France at war, with special surrender terms I would prefer to have this, although I'm not as appalled as a lot of commenters. 18. Peace treaty limited access No big deal 19. Allied voluntary access (restricting to only allies) no big deal 20. American trade restriction Rarely used, but it would be nice to have. 21. Naval raiding No great loss 22. Proportional naval losses If this means that GB can take all her naval losses off an ally/free state there is a real problem. Not as much as... 23. Proportional land losses Again worried about cheese. If I loan my corps to an ally can he take all the losses from my army and not his? If I stick a horrible minor in my army can it be wiped out to spare my national corps? If so that's ugly. I like the random allocation idea actually. 24. Balance of Power peace restrictions No biggie 25. Change of Dominance status Nice chrome, but not a huge deal Customised/changed rules 26. Insurrection corps placement (done by AI, but made more generous in location) Depends how it works out. Probably necessary for PBEM. 27. Naval interceptions (fleets are given orders - intercept weaker, intercept invasion, or intercept all - which they attempt to carry out when the opportunity arises) Ditto. See how it works, but something is needed for PBEM 28. All retreats are conducted by the AI Good change. 29. There is no 'combined move' option - people are supposed to use a 'lend unit to ally' option instead [presumably this allows for allied supply and naval transport, as well as fighting together as a unit]. This is also the only way to use allied depot supply. I think I can live with this. 30. Access through the Dardenelles Don't like this change, but not a killer. 31. Cav and guard in a corps cannot be detached and converted to infantry as a garrison (but factors arriving as reinforcements can) Doesn't matter. 32. Ships exist as heavy, light and transport 33. Privateers and privateer defence I don't want the extra complexity of these rules, but I guess I don't care too much.

Ralegh -> RE: News from the Beta - Deviation List (9/20/2005 8:54:10 AM)
quote: Are you gentleman actual players of EIA? It doesn't appear to be so. Perhaps I should rephrase that, are you fantaical EiA players? I think that question is directed at me. I was a fanatical player for about 5 years in the early 90s. I didn't subscribe to the General, and there could be errata etc that I don't have for the original board game - although I do have a couple of mint quality editions with EIA stuff in them. I rarely take EIA out these days, although it has followed me around through each move, and does have pride of place in my cupboard. Since I got married, had kids, etc, I haven't found a way to fit EIA in. In the last couple of years I have been playing EIH by email, using cyberboard, and having a great time. I'm hoping EIANW will give my EIA playing a new lease of life... and am looking forward to both playing against the AI, and lots and lots of PBEM.

JavaJoe -> RE: News from the Beta - Deviation List (9/22/2005 2:32:47 AM)
Yes, it was intended for you. From your answer I take it as a no. You aren't a fanatical EiA player. Well I hope to play this soon and as a cousin of the orignal I hope it's as fun. :)

Murat -> RE: News from the Beta - Deviation List (9/22/2005 10:22:46 AM)
Well I am sure this will be relatively unpopular but when I came to these boards 2 years ago I was told this project had already been underway for several years and back then they were talking Christmas '03 and it is now Fall '05 and we learn that they have not put a lot of major things in. So I say NONE of the changes can wait. What the hell have you been programming all these years? Why were so many basic rules ignored, let alone the non-inclusion of optional rules (look over the OLD posts from 2+ years ago where we got promises that all the original rules would be included along with the 'major' optional ones, and only a 'few' optional rules to be patched in later). I could care less about the PBEM playability if it requires destroying the stand alone or real time playing of EiA. PBEM can still be handled by having a GM with a large table and the original game doing emails. If anything needs to wait for a future patch, it is PBEM functions if they require radical deviations from the game rules. Too much has been sacrificed and if the dev time had been short I could see patching some things in later, but in '03 we were told this was ready to go and just needed playtesting. It is very apparent that this is not ready to go because the devs did not make EiA, they made a new game.

Nordiska -> RE: News from the Beta - Deviation List (9/22/2005 4:16:10 PM)
I also remember hoping Santa[;)] would bring me EIA for Xmas in '03. It was not to be, reading these forums, I doubt he will bring it for Xmas of '05 either.[:(]

JavaJoe -> RE: News from the Beta - Deviation List (9/24/2005 6:20:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nordiska I also remember hoping Santa[;)] would bring me EIA for Xmas in '03. It was not to be, reading these forums, I don't he will bring it for Xmas of '05 either.[:(] I have faith. We'll see it this fall. [>:]

Pippin -> RE: News from the Beta - Deviation List (9/25/2005 12:56:37 AM)
At least there will be a few more elements added. The wait is not in vain.

JavaJoe -> RE: News from the Beta - Deviation List (9/25/2005 1:11:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pippin At least there will be a few more elements added. The wait is not in vain. I just saw "winter 05 release" is this true?

Marshall Ellis -> RE: News from the Beta - Deviation List (9/26/2005 12:50:57 AM)
Javajoe: We're hoping for Winter '05 BUT looking at the deviation list, we may need to wait, depending on your input. Some folks are wanting it all now and others are content with much of their request in patches. Tough call... Suffice to say, that we will not be able to include over 20 years of mods / options in version 1.0. There are so many additions / optional rule sets that we could spend 1-2 more years of dev time to finish this thing! It's a tough call to let some play now with 75% of the game done or try to please the other crowd that won't buy it until 100% of the game is done????!!!!???? In summary, I'll let the testers / Matrix tell me when we're ready to release. Meanwhile, back at central control, I'll keep hacking out code as fast as I can while trying to keep food on the table for the family! I do enjoy the project BUT I don't enjoy missing dates for you guys! Thank you

julia1003 -> RE: News from the Beta - Deviation List (9/26/2005 8:37:13 PM)
I prefer a true copy, no EiH or anything like that, maybey in a mod afterwards.

JavaJoe -> RE: News from the Beta - Deviation List (9/27/2005 4:32:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis Javajoe: We're hoping for Winter '05 BUT looking at the deviation list, we may need to wait, depending on your input. Some folks are wanting it all now and others are content with much of their request in patches. Tough call... Suffice to say, that we will not be able to include over 20 years of mods / options in version 1.0. There are so many additions / optional rule sets that we could spend 1-2 more years of dev time to finish this thing! It's a tough call to let some play now with 75% of the game done or try to please the other crowd that won't buy it until 100% of the game is done????!!!!???? In summary, I'll let the testers / Matrix tell me when we're ready to release. Meanwhile, back at central control, I'll keep hacking out code as fast as I can while trying to keep food on the table for the family! I do enjoy the project BUT I don't enjoy missing dates for you guys! Thank you Marshall Ellis Yes the deviation list did get things lathered up a bit. I'll turn this into a positive though, and suggest that getting the game out to the public at this point may be better than trying to make the perfect game. Once it's in our hands we'll be able to tell you how the shoe fits. The 75% that want it can and from what I've seen on these posts are dying to help turn this into a great game. Joe

Ralegh -> RE: News from the Beta - Deviation List (9/27/2005 6:29:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JavaJoe I'll turn this into a positive though, and suggest that getting the game out to the public at this point may be better than trying to make the perfect game. Once it's in our hands we'll be able to tell you how the shoe fits. The sad fact is that a large determiner of how well a computer game goes are its initial reviews in the big computer game magazines. Those reviews will be done on version 1.0. If we launch a "partial" game, and the reviewers are only mediocre about it, there probably wont be money for lots of later things. If we wanted this sort of feedback, the best process is a semi-public beta - throw open the doors with a version that will work for 30 days - and prohibit reviews based on that version. Secondly, the big news of the day: the deviation list has changed - peoples comments on this thread have influenced Marshall, and the latest version of beta now features (drum roll please) - FORCED MARCH - GB DEDUCTION OF VPs - CONFEDERATION OF THE RHINE - BESEIGED PORT CITY SUPPLY (Again, I am a beta tester, not the developer. I can't promise these features will stay in if it turns out they break lots of other things, or something. We will see.)

John Umber -> RE: News from the Beta - Deviation List (9/27/2005 8:58:12 AM)
YES!!! I like it!!!

timewalker03 -> RE: News from the Beta - Deviation List (9/27/2005 9:20:33 AM)
A funny thing about this game has occurred to me. I have invested a lot of time as far as waiting for the game to come out. Many conversations betweend old friends accross the country about it. there were 17 of us who played the game continuously over 5 years. We tried as many rule combinations as we could and found the original game was the best with som e minor adjustments. To hear the devlopers after two say that things will be left out and that this is designed more for PBEM thand a live or computer based game is disturbing. The hardcore players are the ones who played the games ftf argued ver rule interpretations and stressed over every die roll. We picked the chits and rolled the dice for the love of "The" game and not an interpretation of it. The game to me will be a failure if after release and the first few patches the game does not reach the original game that it was. For me failure to reach that = waste of money. If I wanted to play a game that resembled a game based on EIA and wasn't the true game with options to be voted on and all, then I'll find the storage box that houses Europa Universalis and play it. But wait it is in that box for a reason. I hope Matrix games realizes that it should be what the players want to the closest degree available. If it takes more waiting then I'll wait. Marshallif that is the worry then get it right not halfway right. Also one last thing that I have for my runon paragraph. EiH was a made up variant. Make that the patch and not the original game. thanks all for reading my ramble. PS if you are worried about finding seven people online to play EIA then you might want to look at blizzerd ent. with World of Warcraft the have 500,000 to a million people online at one time playing. I think finding 7 people online to play may not be as hard as you think. And saving a game would be and easy possibility if you just took the time to realize that.

j-s -> RE: News from the Beta - Deviation List (9/27/2005 10:03:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ralegh Secondly, the big news of the day: the deviation list has changed - peoples comments on this thread have influenced Marshall, and the latest version of beta now features (drum roll please) - FORCED MARCH - GB DEDUCTION OF VPs - CONFEDERATION OF THE RHINE - BESEIGED PORT CITY SUPPLY (Again, I am a beta tester, not the developer. I can't promise these features will stay in if it turns out they break lots of other things, or something. We will see.) Good, this was the best news for this day! Now I must just continue hoping that at least rest of all original EiA rules are included some day. I don't know a problem for example Kingdom of two Sicilies or dominant power changes? But in game those are really important! Think about if France can never loose it's dominant status! [sm=00000117.gif] How much all others will suffer...

Kai -> RE: News from the Beta - Deviation List (12/13/2005 12:03:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ralegh Secondly, the big news of the day: the deviation list has changed - peoples comments on this thread have influenced Marshall, and the latest version of beta now features (drum roll please) - FORCED MARCH - GB DEDUCTION OF VPs - CONFEDERATION OF THE RHINE - BESEIGED PORT CITY SUPPLY (Again, I am a beta tester, not the developer. I can't promise these features will stay in if it turns out they break lots of other things, or something. We will see.) Awesome!!! These were EXACTLY the rules that I thought were most important. Glad to see them in the game.

1LTRambo -> RE: News from the Beta - Deviation List (12/13/2005 12:23:28 AM)
Hey Ralegh, the last post was Sepetember 27th. Do you have new information to add as far as optional rules and other items?

StCyr -> RE: News from the Beta - Deviation List (7/26/2007 11:30:00 AM)
Well, might be usefull to recall the optional rules discussion- what about the political combinations ? Poland, Kindom of Bavaria, Conf. of the Rhine, Kindom of Italiy, Westphalia, etc. ? Do certain minor corps become a movement allowance of "4" simply for being french controlled ? Alternate Dominant Powers, achieving or losing dominant status ? Political restrictions of peace ? Peace treaty and allied limited access, forced access ?

jamo262 -> RE: News from the Beta - Deviation List (7/30/2007 6:31:34 AM)
If the 4 corps per depot rule is too hard to introduce then what about these two variations; 1)Each depot can supply an unlimited number of corps but supply costs double for every four corps above four it supplies or 2) For every preceding depot in a supply chain supply costs are increased. ( again unlimited and doubled costs per depot in chain over 1) Since we have a computer doing the maths why not a combination of 1) AND 2) with decreased supply penalties individually ie. square root 2* costs. Now I shall sit back and receive your insults at my leisure. :-)

Tanan Fujiwara -> RE: News from the Beta - Deviation List (8/1/2007 6:26:27 PM)
Well, I've been waiting for this game like most of you since even before Matrix took over the project, and been monitoring this forum on an off for a couple of years now... I love this game and I don't have any problems with waiting for its release, it's a monster game and Marshall and his team have been giving it all they had for the past years for all I know, so I'm greatfull for their effort (without it we would have nothing to expect), but it seems is not EiA anymore... a lot of the game rules are left out and EiH rules have been incorporated (I've got nothing agaisnt EiH, just think that the rules swamp the game a bit) all of which I humbly think that change the game dramatically, the game is called EiA right??, so if its not EiA (all though it'll look like it in a corny sort of way) it shouldn't be called like that and sadly I rather keep playing cyberboard to actually get the right feel out of the game...

YohanTM2 -> RE: News from the Beta - Deviation List (8/2/2007 2:07:09 PM)
Tanan, Unless a different decison has been made there is supposed to be an option to play with the EiA classic rules only. Yohan

Tanan Fujiwara -> RE: News from the Beta - Deviation List (8/2/2007 9:09:40 PM)
Thank you so much for your quick response Yohan, I really appreciate it... Maybe I jumped to conclusions after reading through this thread without having all the information... This option you mention, does it include all the rules in the original EiA game?, or will some be left out like some optionals? Once again thanks for answring my post... MY Best

YohanTM2 -> RE: News from the Beta - Deviation List (8/2/2007 9:12:23 PM)
You are welcome Tanan but I guess we'll have to just wait and see... :)

yammahoper -> RE: News from the Beta - Deviation List (8/2/2007 11:59:59 PM)
Great. We went from "weeks until release" back to "months until release." Sigh. And to think I emailed out the previous update info to friends. yamma

YohanTM2 -> RE: News from the Beta - Deviation List (8/3/2007 3:04:12 PM)
What the $#%$#%^? Where did you see months again Yamma?

yammahoper -> RE: News from the Beta - Deviation List (8/4/2007 12:37:21 AM)
quote: Javajoe: We're hoping for Winter '05 BUT looking at the deviation list, we may need to wait, depending on your input. Some folks are wanting it all now and others are content with much of their request in patches. Tough call... Suffice to say, that we will not be able to include over 20 years of mods / options in version 1.0. There are so many additions / optional rule sets that we could spend 1-2 more years of dev time to finish this thing! It's a tough call to let some play now with 75% of the game done or try to please the other crowd that won't buy it until 100% of the game is done????!!!!???? In summary, I'll let the testers / Matrix tell me when we're ready to release. Meanwhile, back at central control, I'll keep hacking out code as fast as I can while trying to keep food on the table for the family! I do enjoy the project BUT I don't enjoy missing dates for you guys! Thank you I infer the now longer wait from this reply by Marshall. Of course I hope I am wrong. lynn

Alex Gilbert -> RE: News from the Beta - Deviation List (8/4/2007 3:22:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: yammahoper@yahoo.com quote: Javajoe: We're hoping for Winter '05 BUT looking at the deviation list, we may need to wait, depending on your input. Some folks are wanting it all now and others are content with much of their request in patches. Tough call... Suffice to say, that we will not be able to include over 20 years of mods / options in version 1.0. There are so many additions / optional rule sets that we could spend 1-2 more years of dev time to finish this thing! It's a tough call to let some play now with 75% of the game done or try to please the other crowd that won't buy it until 100% of the game is done????!!!!???? In summary, I'll let the testers / Matrix tell me when we're ready to release. Meanwhile, back at central control, I'll keep hacking out code as fast as I can while trying to keep food on the table for the family! I do enjoy the project BUT I don't enjoy missing dates for you guys! Thank you I infer the now longer wait from this reply by Marshall. Of course I hope I am wrong. lynn I think you missed the date on that reply, it is from September of 2005. The most recent comment on when it will be out is in the "August Update" thread dated from about 10 days ago. While there is no promise of when, it certainly sounds sooner than months. I will now lapse back into silent waiting.

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