Fails to find sub... again (Full Version)

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Damien Thorn -> Fails to find sub... again (8/30/2005 6:04:35 PM)

Can anyone tell me what the chances are for a DD in an ASW task force to find a sub? I know there are different values for the different nationalities and different years (like pilot exp ratings I guess) but I don't know what they are. I remember they were modifed in a patch but no one told us exactly what they are.

If I'm wrong in my thinking of how it works, please feel free to enlighten me.




Speedysteve -> RE: Fails to find sub... again (8/30/2005 6:14:31 PM)

Hi Damien,

Will depend on a fair bit of stuff:

Firstly the crew ratings.

Secondly the leader ratings

Thirdly location of sub - shallow water, deep water, port etc.

Fourthly, as you say there is an ASW modifier which will divide the chance of attack by a certain value. I am uncertain of the value but IIRC its something like Japanese ASW is 66% effectiveness and then 75% by 44 (?). Allies is somehting like 125% upto 150% (?)

Regards,

Steven




AmiralLaurent -> RE: Fails to find sub... again (8/30/2005 8:17:20 PM)

Japanese ASW ratio is smaller. At least in first versions it was 10% IIRC.

To see and then hit a subamrine, the following factors are taken in account: the crew rating, captain rating and SYS damage of the submarine, the crew rating, captain rating, SYS damage and nationality ratio for the ship and maybe the rating of both force commanders.... Also is important the fact that the hex is shallow water and the detection level of the sub may help too.

As for SYS damage, a moderator (Mog, Frag or someone else) said that each SYS damage of the sub is increasing the chance of being seen by 2% IIRC.... I am used to send home my subs once they have 5 SYS and have not so heavy losses. Also every sub having no more torp or fuel and returning home will be docked until SYS is 0 if no emergency arises.




Twotribes -> RE: Fails to find sub... again (8/30/2005 9:54:07 PM)

I had to press into service a submarine with 28 damage ( for about a week, close to home port) it didnt detect any Japanese ships but wasnt detected either. I flooded the straight near Balikpapan trying to catch his carriers after they raided Java. No luck. None of my planes at Balikpapan would fly against the TF and none of the subs got to fire a shot. he took about 4 days to pass through the area and went over at least 4 subs.

I played before on Normal, this time it is on hard and the AI sent at least a portion if not all of its main Carrier task force into attack Soerabajeo. He lingered in range and attacked for 3 days. Sank one CL and severely damaged all but one CL and 3 or 4 DD ( all dutch) He easily swatted aside my cap and slaughtered the 2 strikes that were launched against him.

Subs are all that are left in DEI, I have evacuated all surface combatants to Darwin ( one CL left in Soerbabjeo with 99 system damage, 2 more and 4 destroyers heavily damaged limping slowly away after the carriers were gone.)

Subs seem ineffective in every game I have played in the straits all through the DEI, I dont think my subs have ever detected or fired on a japanese ship except north between Bornio and Main Land.

I did save all the AS from Manila , one is in Balikipapan,, another in Darwin and the 3rd in Nomeau. I sent one Dutch AS to Darwin also and am slowing sending damaged Dutch subs south rather than leave them in Java to die.

Only lost one Submarine so far though I have had 4 or 5 heavily damaged by ASW. ALL american. The Damaged Dutch subs were damaged at start.

Havent sank a single Japanese submarine, even though I had 4 ASW Task forces ( of 4 DD each) at Pearl after the first day and most of my flying floatplanes were on ASW.

He as , it seems, moved as usual to the coast of Australia.

It is 7 January 1942.

Subs and ASW are hit and miss. I have never had results like were complained about on these boards months ago. No large number of Japanese subs sunk by ASW nor HUGE numbers of Japanese shipping lost to american subs.

I dont make huge ASW task forces . there are not enough destroyers to do that and have any hope of haveing other task forces or providing escort for critical shipments.

I do press all the MSW into service as escort, I know they suck but better that then no escort at all. Well except the long legged MSW , those I dont risk on ASW patrol or escort, as the MSW is usually what the sub sinks.




testarossa -> RE: Fails to find sub... again (8/31/2005 12:38:45 AM)

Was posted by one of the developers. I don't remember the exact number something like sub has 2% less chance to attack for every point of the sys damage.




kbad -> RE: Fails to find sub... again (8/31/2005 3:17:44 AM)

On the topic of ASW. Do subs hit mines the same as surface ships? I can't remember ever seeing it in the three games I have played.




testarossa -> RE: Fails to find sub... again (8/31/2005 4:33:36 AM)

Not that often (I would say 20 to 50 times less). 1 US sub hit mine at Bataan. 1 of my sub was damaged by mine. That's about it.




jwilkerson -> RE: Fails to find sub... again (8/31/2005 4:45:26 AM)

I'd say on average I've sunk about 1 sub per (PBEM) game - to mines - a game running on average ( for me ) about 300 turns. To have a chance, load up the hex with minimum 1000 mines ... for the Japanese, this requires a decent 6 ML TF and 2 trips to the hex.







AmiralLaurent -> RE: Fails to find sub... again (8/31/2005 10:43:05 AM)

It seems to me that submarines on minelaying missions have more chance to hit enemy minefields. At least the two enemy subs I sank with mines were on mineflaying missions.




Speedysteve -> RE: Fails to find sub... again (8/31/2005 1:20:18 PM)

IRL weren't a fair few American subs lost to mines? (5-10% of losses?!?)




spence -> RE: Fails to find sub... again (8/31/2005 1:29:32 PM)

I looked this up once and am fairly certain that 7-8 US subs were sunk by mines which is more like 15% of the total losses. As for the IJN, there are only a couple of instances where the cause of a loss was known to be a mine (data from Combined Fleet website) but when I checked it out they hadn't posted data on most of the RO boats so there may be more now that are known to have been sunk by a mine.




Sardaukar -> RE: Fails to find sub... again (8/31/2005 3:14:12 PM)

After using MSWs in CHS against AI IJN subs (with even IJ Sub Doctrine on) I started to appeciate the idea of training cruises..[:D]. IJN subs won 4-0... Experience counts a lot. With training cuises (just send them out on ASW patrol and set Do Not Retire) small warships get up to 45 exp, DDs and up get to 55 exp. Night experience is very importan too..if you can, add RN or Australian ship to US ASW group. They tend to have high night fighting experience..60+ to 70+ when USN is ofter in 30-50.




Speedysteve -> RE: Fails to find sub... again (8/31/2005 3:21:00 PM)

In one of my PBEM's with me as Allied I regularly prang Japanese subs. If I spot one then I send out a maximum of 5 ship ASW TF (mixture of DD/DMS/MSW etc). In 6 weeks I have sank 9 I believe. I don't see many Japanese subs lurking nowadays [;)]




Twotribes -> RE: Fails to find sub... again (9/1/2005 1:56:30 AM)

Yes my experience is that the MSW makes a real good target for the submarine. Provide one in every task force to soak up that sub torpedo )




fabertong -> RE: Fails to find sub... again (9/1/2005 9:58:45 AM)

Speedy, I believe is refering to my submarines.......most of the remaining sub commanders have decided that four years of shore leave is now in order.......Steven's right ,spot them by air, dispatch task force, wait for survivors...........




Speedysteve -> RE: Fails to find sub... again (9/1/2005 12:38:22 PM)

Yes sorry Fabertong. Was referring to our game. I'm thinking of no longer using ASW TF's in our game and just relying on escorts of TF's.........




fabertong -> RE: Fails to find sub... again (9/1/2005 1:36:45 PM)

Don't worry Speedy.....I'll build em you sink em.........but I will have my revenge




Damien Thorn -> RE: Fails to find sub... again (9/1/2005 5:43:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

In one of my PBEM's with me as Allied I regularly prang Japanese subs.


Yeah, but I was talking about Japanese ASW against Allied subs. The penalty to the Japanese must be really severe because I routinely have 10-ship ASW geoups and they never find anything. The combat screen will come up and it will go through the DDs one by one but they never seem to find the sub.




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