Rating ranges (Full Version)

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bigticket -> Rating ranges (9/6/2005 3:13:52 AM)

You've given out loads of info for creating jerseys, how about the range for each attribute? Not everyone is buying the game to use default players.[image][/image]



bigticket -> RE: Rating ranges (9/8/2005 12:39:02 AM)

all i hear is crickets



JonnieR -> RE: Rating ranges (9/8/2005 9:07:21 PM)

Even the crickets are silent on this subject. I don't think we will receive any advanced info on ratings, ratings limits or the attribute model for individual players until the game comes out, sigh.[:(]

I have complete stats for every player at every position on every team from 1995 - 2000 and 2002 (2001 is lost somewhere) ready to go on Excel spreadsheets, with "scores" for each attribute (SPD, AGI, etc.). All I would need to publish these rosters would be the ranges for each attribute in MF and than determine which distribution (i.e., normal, Poisson, etc.) would be most appropriate or I can take a "provided roster" and construct density functions (using a regression technique) that would closely emulate the actual distribution. These models have worked well for FPS and Madden (phooey, I don't like Madden, FOOTBALL IS NOT AN ARCADE GAME) and the ratings for the players produced very reasonable results, far superior to the original ratings provided by Sierra or EASports.



Tbird -> RE: Rating ranges (9/8/2005 11:46:55 PM)

There was a screenshot floating around somewhere
I'll look around for it

I think it's 0 to 99 tho



bigticket -> RE: Rating ranges (9/9/2005 1:21:03 AM)

Will block avoidance apply to WRs trying to beat the chuck off the LOS? What is the range for cover on CBs? Is it 60 to 99 or is a 60 way to low to play CB in professionally? These are more thoughts than questions.



Sef0r -> RE: Rating ranges (9/9/2005 2:10:57 AM)

I don't hink you will get an answer to that due to the "block info leak" they have on this game.

I'm guessing the reason why it is so quiet here is because most people who posted lots are either testing or don't care anymore.

I just hope they let testers talk about the game soon.



JonnieR -> RE: Rating ranges (9/9/2005 2:48:55 AM)

1. Block avoidance for defensive players is normally a function of their agility, strength and speed ratings. I am not aware of any football sim that modeled the WRs ability to avoid the chuck within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage. The WR ability to get open and catch the ball is usually expressed as a rating like "catch or hands", which encompasses his ability to get free at the line, run an accurate pass pattern and to actually catch the ball thrown to him. His ability to gain yards after the catch is normally a function of his ability to break/avoid tackles, his speed, agility and/or ball carrying ability.

2. Old Madden use to have a rating for Man-to-Man coverage and for Zone coverage however, FPS and new Madden, rely on a combination of attributes like agility acceleration and speed. I am not sure how MF simulates these attributes for DBs.

3. In FPS and Madden the limits for each rating varies by each attribute and by each position. It also depends on whether the simulation model uses absolute or relative attributes. For example STR for a DL posiiton determines their ability to fight off a block, whereas STR for a QB could refer to his arm strength.

I am sure I have now made this subject much more complicated than it needs to be. Sorry about that.



bigticket -> RE: Rating ranges (9/9/2005 1:38:28 PM)

What disappointed me about fb pro was a rb's speed was correlated to his ability to gain yards which is wrong if you're talking about an effective inside runner. The same with a WR who has exceptional "catch" but can't get open, it should be setup that way not just "catch" relates to whether he caught 100 balls last season or only 40. AS much time as David has spent with this game hopefully it will be a game for the 21st century, not a refurbished version of FB Pro.



JonnieR -> RE: Rating ranges (9/9/2005 7:10:31 PM)

Your absolutely correct about FPS, the RB spd attribute is primarily a function of yds/run, although, you could have a back with a relatively low spd rating but a high str or break tackle rating that might be able to still gain yardage between the tackles. It would be nice to know how MF approaches this aspect of the game.

I have experimented with using stats for WRs which include total number of passes thrown to them, # dropped, # defended and # caught. If the receiver gets a large percentage of passes thrown to them (given playing time, etc.) he is probably getting open at an above average rate. If then drops a large number of passes his "catch" rating should suffer. So maybe each WR should have both an "open" rating and and a "catch" rating.

In any case the more we know about David's football model the better the quality of any historical or recent rosters we can construct. I believe that having these rosters available will add to attractiveness of the game.



bigticket -> RE: Rating ranges (9/9/2005 8:49:05 PM)

Hopefully a player's ability to get open is going to depend on his agility (which old coach told me was equivalent to route running ability) and his block avoidance (beating the chuck at the LOS. It would be nice to see a whole group of rosters so we can determine the range of each attribute according to each position.

Also I'm hoping that all of this anticipation (sp?) isn't setting us up for a huge letdown if this game isn't the greatest game ever created.

Back to ratings for a second, it may have been nice to see run block & pass block instead of just block. FPS had acceleration, are we going to miss it?



JonnieR -> RE: Rating ranges (9/10/2005 12:15:32 AM)

Of the sixteen attributes for each player one is entitled "Blocking", so MF may not differentiate between pass blocking and run blocking, although there is a often a wide disparity between OLs ability in these areas.

In rating OLs, I use team stats for running, pass completions and sacks, so that each OL's score has a team element. I also have the rushing stats for each position the OL played as well as the number of sacks allowed from his position. The OLs total score is based upon team stats (because football more than any other sport is dependent on team play, especially the OL performance), plus his individual performance for both run blocking and pass blocking separately.



tiredoftryingnames -> RE: Rating ranges (9/13/2005 5:09:55 PM)

Speed should have some factor for inside running. A player either hits the hole fast or lumbers up to it and it closes, see game film on Ron Dayne.



JonnieR -> RE: Rating ranges (9/13/2005 6:12:02 PM)

Rather than Speed perhaps Acceleration is the attribute used to dtermine how quickly a running back gets to the hole, providing the OL has opened one for him. A good example is Craig Heyward who use to weigh in around a hefty 260 lbs, he wasn't fast in terms of speed but he was quick at getting to the hole.



bigticket -> RE: Rating ranges (9/14/2005 2:00:37 PM)

I'll miss acceleration from FPS, but the Quarterbacks will be much more accurate with PP, PS and PA in MaxFB. I'd still love to have the ranges for each attribute for each position so I can begin to create all of these players!



bigticket -> RE: Rating ranges (9/19/2005 10:41:13 PM)

Are the attributes in MaxFB going to be performance driven or actual? Can we assume they'll be similar ranges as they were in FPS?
thanks



bigticket -> RE: Rating ranges (9/24/2005 1:21:04 PM)

In FBPro wasn't there actual ratings and potential ratings and never got to view the actual ratings? Has there been a post as to whether this is in MaxFB? Is that what was added when David went back and added career mode?



JonnieR -> RE: Rating ranges (9/25/2005 6:03:11 AM)

I believe that that the ratings you could see in the original FPFB game were the current or actual ratings. After someone developed an editor for FPFB you could view and even alter the potential ratings. I still have the editor and I tried it out on some old files and you can alter almost any player attribute. Some thing similar will have to be available for Max Football to build historical rosters since I believe it will also incorporate a career mode.



David Winter -> RE: Rating ranges (9/25/2005 8:07:20 AM)

Yes, all players now have potential skill attributes. They're not exposed in the game but it would be easy for someone to build an editor for them.. actually, come to think of it, I think one of the Matrix beta testers might be doing something like that.



JonnieR -> RE: Rating ranges (9/26/2005 7:21:47 AM)

Cool, I have been preparing historical rosters and fine tuning my player attribute models in anticipation of Max FB and will add a "potentials" calculator to the roster model.



JonnieR -> RE: Rating ranges (9/26/2005 5:39:57 PM)

David or any informed Source,

Will you be able to construct leagues and divisions as they were historically with regard to the number of teams and the divisons?

With regard to setting player potentials for historical seasons one can always "cheat" and simulate the players actual career, however I would opt for a standard model that has a degree of randomness which would be more of challenge going forward in the carrer mode. The player's potential therefore would be based on his age, experience, current attribute level and a degree of randomness.



David Winter -> RE: Rating ranges (9/26/2005 7:33:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JonnieR

David or any informed Source,

Will you be able to construct leagues and divisions as they were historically with regard to the number of teams and the divisons?



I can't see any problem doing this.



BCtheQB -> slackin on ratings (9/28/2005 8:51:52 PM)

IM almost done with suggested attribute ranges

having taken the following into account

actual talent levels at
pro
college
arena
high school level
based on real raw combine data nationwide

what it takes to run each system

but a long section on how attributes affect the game would really help
I am preparing to run practices solely designed to test attribute matchups
and resultant performance,

features
QB passing
tackle breaking, head on off tackle, full pursuit
sacks, via speed rush, bull rush, edge rush

had web pages to design last week
but im back now



Title95 -> RE: slackin on ratings (9/28/2005 9:42:26 PM)

Hi BC,

Would you mind sending me those ranges? Feel free to email me.



bigticket -> RE: slackin on ratings (9/29/2005 2:21:41 AM)

Yes, I would love that as well.



bigticket -> RE: Rating ranges (10/5/2005 1:55:36 PM)

Davis is the beta team testing your attribute ranges as well? Meaning will they conclude whether a QB's "pass accuracy" range be from 60 to 90 or 50 to 95. Will they be able to conclude where the floor of "PA" is for the pro level? And all other positions and attributes as well?



bigticket -> RE: Rating ranges (10/28/2005 9:58:38 PM)

Does the game have formations for special teams? Or only ratings for kickers and punters?



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