Leadership Bug....AGGGGGGHHHHH (Full Version)

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ladner -> Leadership Bug....AGGGGGGHHHHH (9/27/2005 1:34:22 AM)

All of my ships that have undergone refit now have crappy 30-40 leadership and inspiration value leaders. Am I just going to have to deal with it? I thought and perhaps this is erroneous that this bug had been fixed?

Is there anything that can be done? I don't see any reason to change to a better leader since as soon as I refit a ship again I will get just another lousy 30-40 leader. Do the leaders that 'disappear' comeback?

I know this is probably old news but this is the further I have gotten into a campaign and I am determined to finish, but this is a pretty big disappointment.



ladner -> RE: Leadership Bug....AGGGGGGHHHHH (9/27/2005 2:36:19 AM)

Anyone? I am just to hope for the best with random leaders and 20 leadership and inspiration? This is a really crappy bug, why bother with leaders then. Will a good task force leader compensate for lousy ship's captain?



tsimmonds -> RE: Leadership Bug....AGGGGGGHHHHH (9/27/2005 2:43:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ladner
Will a good task force leader compensate for lousy ship's captain?


quote:

Gary put together the following lists of the impact of various leader ratings on different aspects of the game. Here it is:

LEADER RATINGS

NAVAL:
naval roll by ASW ship commander effects sub search (ASW TFs only)
naval roll by sub captain effects sub contact chance
naval rating by sub captain effects subs chance to survive ASW attack
naval roll by TF commander effects chance of "crossing T" in surface combat
naval roll by TF commander effects chance of attaining surprise in surface combat
naval roll by ship captain effects ship's chance of locating a target during surface combat


Nope.



ChezDaJez -> RE: Leadership Bug....AGGGGGGHHHHH (9/27/2005 2:43:47 AM)

The TF commander will play a very large role in determining whether your TF reacts or not, so yes, he is very important.

Are you saying that the leader's actual values were reduce or simply replaced with lesser talented leaders?

Chez



rogueusmc -> RE: Leadership Bug....AGGGGGGHHHHH (9/27/2005 3:29:16 AM)

Ship refits have nothing to do with leaders.



ladner -> RE: Leadership Bug....AGGGGGGHHHHH (9/27/2005 4:08:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogueusmc

Ship refits have nothing to do with leaders.


I disbanded a task force manually, now I have nothing but crap leaders for all of my ships that have been in port upgrading. So how did the ship's captains switch.

To chez, no the stats did not decrease, just some of the better officers, like CAPT Sherman are no wheres to be found. This bug really does it, guess not a big deal since I am going against the AI, but why bother having historical leaders.



rogueusmc -> RE: Leadership Bug....AGGGGGGHHHHH (9/27/2005 4:14:40 AM)

it's a new bug to me that changes ship COs during ship upgrades.



madmickey -> RE: Leadership Bug....AGGGGGGHHHHH (9/27/2005 4:21:45 AM)

I wonder if this is one of the reason surface combat are so infrequent.

"naval roll by ship captain effects ship's chance of locating a target during surface combat"



ladner -> RE: Leadership Bug....AGGGGGGHHHHH (9/27/2005 4:37:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogueusmc

it's a new bug to me that changes ship COs during ship upgrades.


I noticed this when my ships where in port being refitted. However, going back to an earlier saved game, both Lexington and Saratoga have lousy COs and neither ship has been refitted or disbanded from a TF. Must be same old leadership bug...really...really kills the game. Especially if madmickey's observation rings true.

I have never gotten this far before in a campaign so I am disappointed. By the way I am patched to V 1.60.



ladner -> RE: Leadership Bug....AGGGGGGHHHHH (9/27/2005 4:55:23 AM)

I pulled up a save game on 12/8/1941, I had a very luck Pearl Harbor as the Allies no BBs sunk. I noticed that after the very first turn the following COs had been repalced F. Sherman on Lexington, G.D. Murray on Enterprise, and D. Ramsey on Saratoga. All three have been replaced by generic leaders with lousy stats. I did not bother to check to see if the generic leaders were even capable of commanding a carrier.

This has me worried since I don't know if these leaders will adveresly effect the quality of air strikes from the CVs. I may not play the game again now until this bug is fixed. Unless someone can assure me that this effect is 'benign'. Somehow I doubt it. I will add that this is a scenario that I modified using the DB editor and added some extra ships for the Japanese and moved up the availability of the Tojo and Tony to make an against the AI game a challenge. Real kicker when I think of all of the hours spent modding and playing the game till 5/1942 only to have all of the ship COs hosed.



Yamato hugger -> RE: Leadership Bug....AGGGGGGHHHHH (9/27/2005 5:15:51 AM)

Well I used to say it loud and strong all the time, I guess 1 more time.

Put an option in to make all the leaders the same. 60 in everthing (including staff officers). Leaders are too critical in this game to just let them wander off leaving worthless turds behind. The game works the opposite of history. In the begining of the real war a lot of incompetance came to light, and were replaced by better commanders (Bull Halsey was one of them BTW. He was almost relieved of command after Leyte Gulf. Leaving the landing force unprotected and losing several DDs to weather. Was a very good thing on the history channel on it a while back).



ladner -> RE: Leadership Bug....AGGGGGGHHHHH (9/27/2005 5:42:23 AM)

Does the V1.602 really fix this bug? I thought I read this in the public beta forum. Of course I believe it also stated that the fix in V1.602 will not fix a game already in progress. Can someone confirm this?



ChezDaJez -> RE: Leadership Bug....AGGGGGGHHHHH (9/27/2005 5:56:30 AM)

quote:

Put an option in to make all the leaders the same.


Or at least an option to confirm the change before it happens.

Chez



Slaughtermeyer -> RE: Leadership Bug....AGGGGGGHHHHH (9/27/2005 6:39:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ladner

I will add that this is a scenario that I modified using the DB editor and added some extra ships for the Japanese and moved up the availability of the Tojo and Tony to make an against the AI game a challenge.

Because rogueusmc never had any problems like yours and if he never used mods made with the editor, I would suspect that somehow your mod is causing your problem. In that case it's unlikely that 1.602 will help.



ADavidB -> RE: Leadership Bug....AGGGGGGHHHHH (9/27/2005 7:23:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ladner

All of my ships that have undergone refit now have crappy 30-40 leadership and inspiration value leaders. Am I just going to have to deal with it? I thought and perhaps this is erroneous that this bug had been fixed?

Is there anything that can be done? I don't see any reason to change to a better leader since as soon as I refit a ship again I will get just another lousy 30-40 leader. Do the leaders that 'disappear' comeback?

I know this is probably old news but this is the further I have gotten into a campaign and I am determined to finish, but this is a pretty big disappointment.


I just checked my upgraded ships and I found that they kept their existing captains - for example, Sherman for the Lexington and Ramsey for the Saratoga. I'm playing an unmodified v1.602 game with the standard map and no edits to anything. I've got the big April 1942 upgrade coming up, so if I see anything funny, I'll post it.

Take care -

Dave Baranyi



Kereguelen -> RE: Leadership Bug....AGGGGGGHHHHH (9/27/2005 10:02:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ladner
I will add that this is a scenario that I modified using the DB editor and added some extra ships for the Japanese and moved up the availability of the Tojo and Tony to make an against the AI game a challenge. Real kicker when I think of all of the hours spent modding and playing the game till 5/1942 only to have all of the ship COs hosed.


Seems that you've added Japanese ships in Allied database slots. This would've caused some disturbances with the leader database. If I remember correctly, this happened some time ago to another modder (problem was posted a long time ago in the forum).



ladner -> RE: Leadership Bug....AGGGGGGHHHHH (9/27/2005 1:40:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ladner
I will add that this is a scenario that I modified using the DB editor and added some extra ships for the Japanese and moved up the availability of the Tojo and Tony to make an against the AI game a challenge. Real kicker when I think of all of the hours spent modding and playing the game till 5/1942 only to have all of the ship COs hosed.


Seems that you've added Japanese ships in Allied database slots. This would've caused some disturbances with the leader database. If I remember correctly, this happened some time ago to another modder (problem was posted a long time ago in the forum).


I will try and search for this thread then. If someone else is knowledgeable and could post a link to the thread in question. I would greatly appreciate it. Also if someone knows off hand which slots are reserved that would be helpful.



Sardaukar -> RE: Leadership Bug....AGGGGGGHHHHH (9/27/2005 2:28:49 PM)

I've not lost CV leaders in 1.6..not that I've noticed, but I do chack usually..and there has been several upgrades on CV. Is this game that is started under earlier patch and then upgraded on the run ??



Damien Thorn -> RE: Leadership Bug....AGGGGGGHHHHH (9/27/2005 7:49:52 PM)

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. I've never even noticed my leaders. They really don't seem to make much difference in the game anyway.



Sardaukar -> RE: Leadership Bug....AGGGGGGHHHHH (9/27/2005 7:59:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. I've never even noticed my leaders. They really don't seem to make much difference in the game anyway.


Well, aggressive sub commanders do. They get their subs killed very well !! [:D] About only commanders I worry much.



ADavidB -> RE: Leadership Bug....AGGGGGGHHHHH (9/27/2005 8:01:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. I've never even noticed my leaders. They really don't seem to make much difference in the game anyway.


I've found big differences with leaders of all sorts - air, land and sea. I take great care to select who I want to be where and when.

Take care -

Dave Baranyi



pompack -> RE: Leadership Bug....AGGGGGGHHHHH (9/27/2005 8:27:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ADavidB


quote:

ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. I've never even noticed my leaders. They really don't seem to make much difference in the game anyway.


I've found big differences with leaders of all sorts - air, land and sea. I take great care to select who I want to be where and when.

Take care -

Dave Baranyi



yep. I have noticed that a lot of people claim the political points don't matter becausethey always have more than they need. Constantly upgrading my leaders is one reason why I have NEVER had enought political points. Unfortunately I can't say that good leaders make up for inept play on my part [:(]



Yamato hugger -> RE: Leadership Bug....AGGGGGGHHHHH (9/27/2005 8:30:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. I've never even noticed my leaders. They really don't seem to make much difference in the game anyway.


Leaders make a HUGE difference.



Kereguelen -> RE: Leadership Bug....AGGGGGGHHHHH (9/27/2005 8:39:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

quote:

ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. I've never even noticed my leaders. They really don't seem to make much difference in the game anyway.


Leaders make a HUGE difference.


Yup, just see what happens if you have a leader who's "qualified to command an air transport formation" in charge of a fighter squadron, you'll notice that they don't attack enemy planes very effective...



ladner -> RE: Leadership Bug....AGGGGGGHHHHH (9/28/2005 12:22:29 AM)

Okay guys will V1.602 fix this problem? And someone mentioned about slots, that I may have put Japanese ships in an allied slot, or vice versa, does anyone, especially the CHS folks have anything to say? I know changes were trivial compared to CHS. I am dying here guys, so if you have answers I am more than willing to listen.



Oliver Heindorf -> RE: Leadership Bug....AGGGGGGHHHHH (9/28/2005 12:23:55 AM)

I play 1.6 and i lost the Saratogas leader to an ARMY puke !!! [:@]



ladner -> RE: Leadership Bug....AGGGGGGHHHHH (9/28/2005 1:11:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Slaughtermeyer


quote:

ORIGINAL: ladner

I will add that this is a scenario that I modified using the DB editor and added some extra ships for the Japanese and moved up the availability of the Tojo and Tony to make an against the AI game a challenge.

Because rogueusmc never had any problems like yours and if he never used mods made with the editor, I would suspect that somehow your mod is causing your problem. In that case it's unlikely that 1.602 will help.


I think you are right. I downloaded 1.602 and same thing, it seems that it is only the allied side that gets FUBAR. I have started a new thread in the modding\scenario modification section of the forum. If anyone has ideas or advice it will be greatly appreciated [&o]



ChezDaJez -> RE: Leadership Bug....AGGGGGGHHHHH (9/28/2005 2:23:04 AM)

quote:

yep. I have noticed that a lot of people claim the political points don't matter becausethey always have more than they need.


They must be playing the Allied side. I have never been able to keep enough PPs as the Japanese to even change 1 mdeium-sized infantry unit. I would like to move a couple of divisions out of China but I just can't afford to. I think the most I had built up was 2200 PPs.

Most of mine get spent rotating air units back to the home islands for rebuilding and retraining. I think I have about 800 PPs right now. At 100+ PPs just to move one air unit form Home Defense to Southern Area eats up the points quick.

Chez



ladner -> RE: Leadership Bug....AGGGGGGHHHHH (9/28/2005 4:46:35 AM)

Guys have to come clean, I created my own 'bug' using the WiTP Excel editor I had sorted the leaders, this must have been while adding unused leaders to some of the new ships that I had added. As a consequence after the sort the leaders were out of alignment, I was able to deduce by tracking back one leader that the leaders need to be in the row with a +4 offset of their number.

For example using CAPT Buckmaster CO of the Yorktown he should be in row 8093 since he is supposed to be in 8089. Much thanks to all who posted, and many apologies if a false alarm was created....sorrt to be the boy who cried, "Wolf!"



ChezDaJez -> RE: Leadership Bug....AGGGGGGHHHHH (9/28/2005 5:13:15 AM)

quote:

I created my own 'bug' using the WiTP Excel editor I had sorted the leaders


Oops! [X(]

Chez



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