Air to air combat terrible...

Air to air combat terrible... (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific

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plasticpanzers -> Air to air combat terrible... (9/30/2005 6:14:33 AM)
Been playing Gary's games for a long time (from the early days at SSI). Always had a problem with his air to air combat system. Japanese aircraft seem to fly in a mass of aircraft while US/Allied fly in small groups. Air to air is one long string of Japanese planes that every small group of Allied aircraft has to run the gauntlet of. Nomatter the altitude there are always Zeros there between US aircraft and the bombers they want to target. US aircraft break off and leave but even when the notation appears that a Japanese group breaks off combat it still stays and continues to pound US aircraft. Even with good morale (US aircrews appear to have the morale of Italian inf in N. Africa) and well rested with expierence in the high 60s-low 70s i have seen 40 Allied fighters die in one battle to the loss of 0-1 Japanese kill and 0-1 damaged. Even when outnumbered 2-1 my airgroups are slaughtered. I have studied warfare for over 40 years and do not remember any airbattle where US air groups lost 20-30 aircraft vs 1-2 Japanese in any battle from 42 on. Also Japanese fighter sweeps from Rabaul are nothing more than free escorts for their bombers. They arrive exactly when the bombers do, never before or after to engage Allied aircraft. Pretty good timing for such long flights seperate of the regular bomber force and escorts. They must fly station over the sea waiting for them to show up! LOL! These problems existed in Pacwar as well. I often thought that the aircombat system needed to be redone as a box system of height/width/time (3-d)vs one long line vs the other long line as it appears now. I also note that even when i do get thru the fighters even with minimal figher vs fighter combat i have ONE attack on a bomber (usually misses) and air combat is done! how nice! must have run outa ammo! LOL! Not trying to by snide. Just that his air to air system used has always been heavy handed and tilted toward the Japanese early on artifically. I called it the "Super Samurai" system. Later on it appears that the system starts an artificial slant towards US fighters even tho they never really change in the quality/morale/exp. I enjoy his games immensly but often have to suffer thru the air to air system. One bug that appeared in his first "War in the South Pacific" was 4 I class Japanese Subs flying off the Shokaku! Made great dive bombers (must have taken up quite a bit of deck space! LOL!) Only one was shot down and by AA fire, must have made a heck of a splash! Tim (plasticpanzers)

anarchyintheuk -> RE: Air to air combat terrible... (9/30/2005 10:23:08 PM)
Yeah, those are valid criticisms. Most of problems I have with it are based upon the uber cap that allows each strike to be engaged with only minor penalties to the cap for following groups. The allied side is especially affected by this because of the coordination penalty (or uncoordination bonus, depending on which side you play). The penalty seems to me to be somewhat plausible based on '42 carrier combat. How the cap is modeled is not, based upon '42 carrier combat. About the squadrons that break off combat (if I understand you correctly), I think the coordination penalty makes that worse than it appears. Most IJN strikes are one-and-done, so a USN squadron that breaks off has had its only shot. An IJN squadron that breaks off will have shot at the next strike. The allies can do the same fighter sweep/escort tactic that the IJAAF/IJNAF can do. It just takes a while for P-38s to show up. Be thankful, at least you don't have to deal with the zero bonus from 12/41-5/42 that WitP has. [:)]

plasticpanzers -> RE: Air to air combat terrible... (9/30/2005 11:36:49 PM)
I have not noticed that Radar give any help in getting more aircraft into the air as well as the lack of effect of AA fire. In a few games i have stripped nearly every AA unit on the Allied side and put em into PM for no real effect beyond what i had their orginally I am not just grousing about the system. I have been playing wargames for over 40 years and computer games inc SSI/Gary Grigsby games from Commadore64/Apple IIc days. You adapt your playing style to fit the game parameters or go crazy! LOL! Usually after a time where it appears my efforts to fly cap are only useful in training Japanese fighter pilots (LOL!) i pull all my fighters out and just put bombers on the base and will take about the same amount of damage from air attacks as if i had cap. just finished another very unsatisfying game where allied fighters drop like rain. gets boring sitting reading about all the japanese pilots and their new kills. i am beginning to visualize these "super samurai" japanese pilots standing on the fusalage of their zeros and just glaring at the allied planes whose pilots scream and shot themselves rather than get into combat! LOL! Had 60 F4Fs off 4 carriers engage 18 zeros with 40 or so bombers/torp planes. It appears only about 5-6 of my fighters made it thru and shot down a few of the Japanese aircraft. the zeros appear to be able to engage mulitple US aircraft at the same time. I really hate where rules give specific units specific ratings and these are tinkered with in a very abstract fashion in the system which makes both history and gameplay ahistorical. I had 18 P40s and 12 P39s engage 8 zeros and 12 vals over PM. half my fighters die or run off and the rest never fire a shot at the vals. you gotta be kidding. were our pilots that retarded? again today in muliple battles i see reports of zero groups 'breaking off' but they contiue to fight and soak up attacks and my allied fighters drop like rain. like i said before, allied fighters, except on occasion (and only rairly then) are totally ineffectual the first year of the game. it saves time and effort to plug em into a rear area base and use bombers only. they may drop just as fast as my fighters but at least japanese pilots are not making the extra kills and getting expierence from hacking my fighters to bits. Tim (plasticpanzers)

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