Reporting bugs/game development thoughts (Full Version)

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asdicus -> Reporting bugs/game development thoughts (10/3/2005 7:49:01 PM)

I am a keen fan of this game and my scenario 15 no mods pbm game has now got to march 1943 - I'm the allies and am gradually fighting my way back to japan. A great game but some new bugs are just starting to crop up - details on the support forum. Issues like japanese air units appearing on allied airbases and allied pilot replacement experience levels not increasing over time. Gamebreaking no but annoying yes. A lot more annoying than say whether plane x should have gun a or gun b as armament in 1943 and so forth. Posting my bugs I noticed a total lack of official matrix support or interest in the forum - not a good sign I think.

It seems that official support for this game has died (please correct me if I am wrong) and thus I am wondering as to the point of reporting future bugs. Being such a large and complex game bugs will always be present but I was under the impression that witp was the matrix flagship game ?? Certainly is has the highest retail price. We players are investing a huge amount of time in these long pbm campaign games and I am concerned that all this effort could be wasted if the game goes pear shaped say 18 months into the war.

witp has all characteristics of a great gaming classic ie something we will still want to play for many years but it still needs help and support to make it great. When I look at all the games matrix currently offer surely this is the most magnificant and unique title - a flagship product and thus deserving of future support even if it does not make $ sense.

If the game is dead supportwise then I think matrix should be honest and say so and also reduce the price for new players - the full price for a backburner game seems unfair to me. Also I see suggestions that the code might be released to enable the fanbase to further game development. This is such a brilliant idea for instance beyond the reich became a much better game with development by the fan base. Another example of this is rome total realism which really is much improved version of the basic rome total war - using data edits not program changes in this case. The fanbase contains many skilled and knowledgeable people (eg the work on chs scenario) - just think what could be done if the code could be amended as well ?

Thoughts and opinions welcome.



rtrapasso -> RE: Reporting bugs/game development thoughts (10/3/2005 7:50:38 PM)

Bugs are being reported and fixed. A new patch is due out soon to fix at least one (and hopefully more bugs).



asdicus -> RE: Reporting bugs/game development thoughts (10/3/2005 8:05:12 PM)

rtrapasso
Yes I have read about the maximum pilot 30000 problem but that is a total showstopper ie the game is completely broken at that point in the war. Also it did seem to take a great deal of effort by the bug poster to get an official response to the bug.

My point is that there are and will be other bugs which do not totally break the game but are important nevertheless - how much activity is there now in collating and fixing those bugs ? I am not being critical as such of matrix - it would just be nice to know if game development is now dead or not - then we players would know where we stand. also new players could assess the game warts and all before buying what is a pretty expensive product.

I am not complaining - remember I am a witp game addict - I just like to know where things stand.



Nikademus -> RE: Reporting bugs/game development thoughts (10/3/2005 8:19:34 PM)

Where things stand are that future patch efforts are by necessity now being restricted to critical bug fixes. The "great deal of effort" part comes from the simple fact that the only way for a problem to be addressed is if a valid repeatable save can be generated otherwise the coder cant even begin to track down the problem in the limited time available to devote to it due to the demands of other projects currently on the board.




Zachary -> RE: Reporting bugs/game development thoughts (10/3/2005 8:57:13 PM)

In the Support forum there's discussion about the likelihood that even some repeatable bugs reported with saves won't be addressed.



Nikademus -> RE: Reporting bugs/game development thoughts (10/3/2005 9:21:56 PM)

That is possible. WitP has received major support for well over a year and many new features were added along with critical bug fixes. The Leadership bug is a vexing problem that has frustrated many both inside and outside the company. Alot of aspects of it have been addressed but it remains a complicated bug that wont completely die, but not for lack of effort by the developers.

By necessity, Matrix/2b3 as a business entity cannot survive by focusing solely on any one product for too long a period, even one as big as WitP. Sooner or later, the programmers have to be moved on to other projects in order to keep the bacon frying on the pan. However despite this reality, Mike Wood has volunteered much time in addressing issues with the game and even found time to add yet a couple more new features.

In a perfect world, i'd like to see a bug free WitP but the plain reality of the situation is that a game this big and complex in terms of coding would be a very difficult thing to produce. I'm not making excuses for the developers, just trying to present a balanced viewpoint. Overall I think the game works remarkabley well all things considered and the game has received a mountain of support from the devs.




Zachary -> RE: Reporting bugs/game development thoughts (10/3/2005 9:28:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

That is possible. WitP has received major support for well over a year and many new features were added along with critical bug fixes. The Leadership bug is a vexing problem that has frustrated many both inside and outside the company. Alot of aspects of it have been addressed but it remains a complicated bug that wont completely die, but not for lack of effort by the developers.

By necessity, Matrix/2b3 as a business entity cannot survive by focusing solely on any one product for too long a period, even one as big as WitP. Sooner or later, the programmers have to be moved on to other projects in order to keep the bacon frying on the pan.

In that case it should release the code to people who gladly would fix the bugs for free, and not cost Matrix any lost developer time.



Tankerace -> RE: Reporting bugs/game development thoughts (10/3/2005 9:30:40 PM)

quote:

In that case it should release the code to people who gladly would fix the bugs for free, and not cost Matrix any lost developer time.


But if it does that, then it can no longer make money off of the game (as it can be downloaded), and that is just plain bad business.



Zachary -> RE: Reporting bugs/game development thoughts (10/3/2005 9:36:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

quote:

In that case it should release the code to people who gladly would fix the bugs for free, and not cost Matrix any lost developer time.


But if it does that, then it can no longer make money off of the game (as it can be downloaded), and that is just plain bad business.

I don't mean release it to everybody, only to those who already have bought the game who specifically ask for it in order to fix the bugs and have them sign a non-disclosure agreement. It's also bad business for their reputation to be tarnished as a company that deliberately refuses to fix serious bugs.



Nikademus -> RE: Reporting bugs/game development thoughts (10/3/2005 9:39:22 PM)

The company has not 'refused' to fix serious bugs. Support for Witp has not ceased, but the priority for the programmers has by necessity been moved to up and coming projects. In english that means that support requests may take longer than experienced in the past and yes, some issues may not see a fix depending on their severity. Mass release of the code which constitutes intellectual property owned by Matrix/2b3 is not a feasible option as TankerAce pointed out.




Tankerace -> RE: Reporting bugs/game development thoughts (10/3/2005 9:42:55 PM)

Keep this in mind. UV's predecessor was released late in 2003. They just released a patch for it about 3 months ago. Trust me, Matrix does support its titles. Maybe not as fast as you'd like, but keep this in mind. The programmer from Matrix has to work on other games to make money. He doesn't make money, he gets another job. He gets another job, WitP doesn't get fixed. Now, he can do both, giving priority to other games to continue to make money to stay at his job and he can fix WitP. Which would you prefer? A patch now and thats it, or continued long term support like UV?



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