The Upcoming Changes to the Mech.exe (Full Version)

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KG Erwin -> The Upcoming Changes to the Mech.exe (10/16/2005 7:25:31 AM)

Michael Wood posted this some time ago, but here's a reminder:

SPWaW 8.41 Patch Notes

1) Made it a bit harder to spot enemy units, especially at range one or zero.
2) Allowed the German artificial intelligence purchase routine a little more armor.
3) Sniper units may no longer close assault vehicles.
4) Sometimes the player setup side was incorrect, when assaulting beaches. Bug. Fixed.
5) The in game save menu button now automatically saves the Mega-Campaign. This might be useful, if the player has been experiencing CTD and wishes to save without having to exit the scenario

More is to come, so 8.5 promises to be excellent.

I've heard nothing new lately, guys. I will pass along news as I can get it.




Alby -> RE: The Upcoming Changes to the Mech.exe (10/16/2005 7:30:44 AM)

I wish at least 8.41 would be released TO THE PUBLIC
so the tank assualting thing would at least be gone..[:D][:D][:D][:D]



Alby -> RE: The Upcoming Changes to the Mech.exe (10/20/2005 2:29:46 AM)

I think it is great that Mike has listened to the gamers and done somethings they requested...(even those less than cordial gamers...[;)])
He put back in the Passenger casualties...added a save option to the mega campaigns..
and now is working on something to help out with the ratings of troops...Fixed the spotting/assualting routine that got tweaked too high....Plus all the other not so obvious little things he has added.
Plus what he has discussed adding!! [X(]
Outstanding..
I just want to say thanks...[&o]
[:)]



KG Erwin -> RE: The Upcoming Changes to the Mech.exe (10/20/2005 3:54:29 AM)

Ditto to what Alby said. You guys pay attention-- a few of us are helping Michael in testing the changes. They are good, and we should be offering kudos towards his efforts.



VikingNo2 -> RE: The Upcoming Changes to the Mech.exe (10/20/2005 3:47:22 PM)

Thanks for the continued work, are the new exp levels going to stay the same ?



Nikademus -> RE: The Upcoming Changes to the Mech.exe (10/20/2005 4:47:47 PM)

hopefully. [:D]



VikingNo2 -> RE: The Upcoming Changes to the Mech.exe (10/20/2005 10:26:48 PM)

Actually I was hoping not, "minor" countries are now almost unplayable



Nikademus -> RE: The Upcoming Changes to the Mech.exe (10/20/2005 11:32:09 PM)

I know....long debate on it. Still, i dread any potential return of the politically correct, vanilla flavored country training values.



VikingNo2 -> RE: The Upcoming Changes to the Mech.exe (10/21/2005 2:15:30 AM)

Vanilla ? Hmmm not sure what you mean. I just would like to be able to use them. Thats all. The problem with setting it yourself is it sets all to a hard value I very much like it to be a base value the swings up and down randomly.

Anyway just asking




Jim1954 -> RE: The Upcoming Changes to the Mech.exe (10/21/2005 3:03:48 AM)

JJ, you got VC knocking on the front door.

[X(]



VikingNo2 -> RE: The Upcoming Changes to the Mech.exe (10/21/2005 2:58:22 PM)

Roger that back to the grind stone.....damm VC



soldier -> RE: The Upcoming Changes to the Mech.exe (10/23/2005 7:29:10 PM)

I hope smoke gets some more attention in the upcoming versions, its been a dominating feature over the years and is not modelled accurately

With enough ammo a tank or SP mortar using direct fire can blanket 20 hexes with smoke (after its already fired its HE) in a single turn, that no SIG shells could ever penetrate ! The iron wall will then remain in play in all but the muddiest of conditions
Try it yourself. It may not effect your battle against the AI but it can mess up a PBEM. I think if you can shoot through trees (on high visibility settings) then some kind of innacurate area fire should also travel through smoke. Bring danger back to the battlefield



Baneman -> RE: The Upcoming Changes to the Mech.exe (10/25/2005 6:04:49 PM)

I have to say that the massive overuse of smoke as harder-than-hard-cover is what has driven me ( after 10 years or however long it's been since SP1 ) from SP to Combat Mission.

I find it very difficult to use or get results from historical tactics when the opponent advances behind a wall of smoke ( which style of play also seems to penalise countries that have smaller smoke loadouts eg. Russian inf seem to get 1 smoke grenade and that's it, whereas German troops can pop 3 or 4. ).

I have nothing against artillery-fired smoke screens, but when every infantryman and/or his dog's AFV move and hide in smoke, then move and hide in smoke again, rinse repeat...

If area fire at least was possible through smoke ( HMG's etc. ), it would lose its "gamey" nature.

OK, I'm referring to PBEM - AI limitations are AI limitations everywhere. ( oh, and I'm not claiming by any stretch to be a good player [;)] )



Colonel von Blitz -> RE: The Upcoming Changes to the Mech.exe (11/4/2005 12:54:20 PM)

Hmm...like Baneman said: would it be possible to tweak the code a little bit, and allow area fire through say two or three hexes of smoke? [;)]

Another possibility is to take away smoke grenades from infantry.

-Colonel-



BIASEDHISTORIAN -> RE: The Upcoming Changes to the Mech.exe (11/4/2005 5:57:31 PM)

I think the smoke use Baneman is reffering to is the use of Mortars, as in firing more than their alloted rate of fire. In PBEM this can be easily fixed by players agreeing to limit their use to rate of fire only/or a set amount. Though in a game enviornment where time is subjective it is plausible that one player would advance under more smoke than another.

Depending on the agreed smoke limit tactics would alter but the end result would be the same...a vet would always avoid LOS on their own units. LOS is a huge part of this game and if you leave a unit where your opponent can achieve LOS against it with very little movement on his own...the majority of time that unit will die.

The other thing to remember in PBEM is that each match should be played from both sides of the fence, only then can both players get a fair shot at each other. That said smoke is a controllable factor in the game and is in no need of a makeover.

Yak



soldier -> RE: The Upcoming Changes to the Mech.exe (11/4/2005 6:19:30 PM)

Sorry guys but ..... BULLETS TRAVEL THROUGH SMOKE
It's really that simple. I'm not saying that you can aim through it but you certainly can shoot through it in real life if you wish. Until SPWAW recognises this simple law of physics (Like SPWW2/MBT does) it remains a flawed simulation to me. The fact that smoke can be fired unlimited times and that every troop has bucket loads only multiplies this bizarre aspect out of all proportion. I think after 8+ versions it would be addressed but I'm not sure its being looked at. Still a great game just not very realistic.



BIASEDHISTORIAN -> RE: The Upcoming Changes to the Mech.exe (11/4/2005 9:18:47 PM)

(in reply to soldier)

Shooting through smoke at something that you are not even sure is there would only accomplish one thing in real war...which is give away your own position! I often drop smoke to make the other guy think I am attacking from a false direction. Since the other player is "suspended in time" during your phase of the turn then the only other thing you can gain by shooting through smoke is stopping/slowing an advance...a mute point when the other guy is not in motion.

Again, simply limiting the amount of smoke charges a player can use per turn would keep things agreeable...but that will not magically enable you to shoot at a good player in good cover...unless this is a desert scene :)


Yak



VikingNo2 -> RE: The Upcoming Changes to the Mech.exe (11/4/2005 9:25:19 PM)

I don't think you can shoot through smoke in MBT, unless you can see through it. In SPWAW you can shoot through smoke if you can see through it as well, just crank up the vis and you will see. The bug is that you can shoot all you smoke shots even if you have no shots left IMO. Reducing the smoke to one per squad might help as well. I don't know what there load out should be.



Alby -> RE: The Upcoming Changes to the Mech.exe (11/5/2005 6:04:19 PM)

have you guys ever had an infrantry unit fired at...you blow smoke, and the enemy still fires thru the smoke at you!!
usually it takes another smoke blow to blind them.
this happens to me all the time!![:@]

so I know it is possible to fire thru the smoke.



soldier -> RE: The Upcoming Changes to the Mech.exe (11/5/2005 9:15:09 PM)

quote:

I don't think you can shoot through smoke in MBT, unless you can see through it. In SPWAW you can shoot through smoke if you can see through it as well, just crank up the vis and you will see. The bug is that you can shoot all you smoke shots even if you have no shots left IMO. Reducing the smoke to one per squad might help as well. I don't know what there load out should be.


The mechanics of the two games is quite different in regards to smoke. You can't shoot beyond your visibility range in either game if thats what you mean by being able to see through it. In MBT you can always area fire through smoke no matter how thick it is or wether it has blocked LOS or not. You will not be able to target a unit behind the smoke or spot it with the firing unit if LOS is blocked but you can land some heavy ordinance in their location by using area fire and supress them (the supression model is not exagerrated either in MBT). On the same coin firing smoke shells costs firing points so you cant fire 20 smoke rounds in one turn. Its very different (and inncorrect) in WAW. You can only fire through smoke if it is not thick enough to block LOS in WAW ? this generally occurs when a troop drops a smoke grenade and sometimes an enemy will still opfire at you. Drop another one (even soviet conscripts have plenty) and suddenly they can't penetrate the shield. You can never fire through smoke dropped by arty or tanks, its always thick and blocks LOS. So you have this ridiculous scenario where smoke that is sufficiently thick enough to block LOS also stops bullets, so a smoke screen also acts as impenetrable armour and is used as such by everyone who plays WAW (myself included). As such infantry don't have to run or take cover when a Brumbaer or Sig drives around the corner and gets the jump on them, a smoke grenade is sufficient to halt the advance [8|]. How many times have you dropped smoke when someone fired at you instead of withdrawing or trying to find some real cover ? I do it all the time and it's too easy.



KG Erwin -> RE: The Upcoming Changes to the Mech.exe (11/6/2005 2:59:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: soldier

How many times have you dropped smoke when someone fired at you instead of withdrawing or trying to find some real cover ? I do it all the time and it's too easy.


Yes, I have used this trick, too. Great for covering a retrograde movement (Marines don't retreat, dammit! [;)] ) or calling up reinforcements (yeah, that's it [:D]). However, given the way the game engine handles smoke, this is essentially a cheat. So, I'll stop using it, period. In solo play, smoke is yet another tool to try to give the AI some advantage.

Dependent on the weather, smoke DOES clear, so this momentary "impenetrable shield" shouldn't cause THAT much teeth-gnashing. You KNOW where the bad guys are, so drop some mortar rounds on them.



soldier -> RE: The Upcoming Changes to the Mech.exe (11/6/2005 8:38:39 AM)

No teeth knashing here [:D], just pushing for code change and hoping to get the best of both worlds (WAW/WW2). I tend to be a bit verbose at times.
SP is still my favourite game



VikingNo2 -> RE: The Upcoming Changes to the Mech.exe (11/6/2005 6:12:16 PM)

Just discussing I wil try the area fire thing you are talking about, I do wish that smoke shoots counted and a shot just as in MBT. I hear what you saying about the steel wall of smoke but if smoke was counted as a shot then if think you would not see what your talking about as much



sabrejack -> RE: The Upcoming Changes to the Mech.exe (11/7/2005 3:29:55 AM)

Sometimes the reason you need to drop multiple smoke grenades relates to height. I think (but am not 100% sure) if the other unit is on a higher elevation you need 2 (or more) smoke grenades (from an infantry unit) to block LOS.

Also, if a unit runs into trouble, drops smoke and retreats one hex from something with a big gun (like a SU152 or big SP gun), 'z' firing into the smoke hex can still cause casualties, and possibly reflects 'random' fire without actually being able to see the enemy.

We can argue about the realism of one unit being able to block an entire 50 yard hex with smoke, but then firing into it with small arms would be equally difficult to actually hit anything... dropping mortar shells or firing big guns into the area can be quite effective (at least against infantry).




Colonel von Blitz -> RE: The Upcoming Changes to the Mech.exe (11/8/2005 11:04:12 AM)

Just popped into my mind, how about getting the SP1 feature back, where it was possible to destroy AT and Infantry Guns in a single (although lucky) shot? Sometimes it's just so frustrating to sit near enemy gun and pick off crewmen one by one, when you know that in real life you would probably take that gun out with a single, well-placed, HE round.

Of course, sometimes a lucky shot from 1000 metres away would also spice things up a bit [:)]

-Colonel-



soldier -> RE: The Upcoming Changes to the Mech.exe (11/12/2005 12:04:06 AM)

quote:

Just popped into my mind, how about getting the SP1 feature back, where it was possible to destroy AT and Infantry Guns in a single (although lucky) shot? Sometimes it's just so frustrating to sit near enemy gun and pick off crewmen one by one, when you know that in real life you would probably take that gun out with a single, well-placed, HE round.


I think this is a good call. I have seen photos (during 44) of german AT guns with wheels blown off and others that have obviously been wrecked by a well placed shot. It seems more realistic to me that a field gun could be destroyed if it took a direct hit from a big enough shell, after all thats why armour was invented and tanks can die in one hit



KG Erwin -> RE: The Upcoming Changes to the Mech.exe (11/12/2005 12:53:20 AM)

(I just can't stay away!)

My personal OOBs have increased the crew sizes for some guns and MGs, so it IS more likely that the crew is forced to abandon its weapon. However, this change also makes it less likely that one shot can kill off the gun crew, UNLESS it's a well-placed round of heavy arty.

In real life, American MGs had a crew of 6 guys, which included a few riflemen/submachine gunners. The 37mm ATGs had a crew of five.



ruxius -> RE: The Upcoming Changes to the Mech.exe (11/12/2005 12:55:47 AM)

very good to hear about a new improvement ...
but
pleeeeeease can we also hope for a SAVE BUTTON within the REPAIR MENU ?
it's a must when playing with a friend !!!

please [&o]
please [&o]
please [&o]
please, if you could put a save button for megacampaign won't you put another one inside that menu for the 8.5 release ?



TerribleIvan -> Release Timeframe? (11/17/2005 1:09:12 AM)

Hello, does anyone have an idea what in timeframe will 8.5 come out? Weeks? Months?

Thanks!



Alby -> RE: Release Timeframe? (11/17/2005 1:30:21 AM)

sorry No idea yet...
Mike is still working on the Experience / Morale ratings thingy.



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