Really trying to decide... (Full Version)

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slybelle -> Really trying to decide... (10/17/2005 1:29:25 AM)

This era of a strategy game is very new to me so I'm struggling trying to decide if I should make the purchase. The folks in this community seem pretty high on it and offer great advice, but I'm torn. In a lot of area seems complicated and not sure if I have the time to play all the time.

So I'm looking for a little bit of guidance if this is something to invest in. I love wargames and have been looking for a good strategic/tactical game. My favorite era is Civil War based games.

The strategy part of this game appears to be solid, but tactical seems to get mixed reviews. Just curious is there any demo out there?

Your thoughts would greatly be appreciated.



Tigleth Pilisar -> RE: Really trying to decide... (10/17/2005 2:24:57 AM)

I put my summary in the thread called "Hello". I'm the 7th post.

I think it is a great game but somewhat frustrated with complexity not handled well from a user interface point of view. If you are patient, willing to do some trial and error and have time, I'd buy. If you want something you can learn quick, I'd go somewhere else and risk that you only find shallow games.



slybelle -> RE: Really trying to decide... (10/17/2005 2:29:01 AM)

Thanks Tigleth Pilisar for the quick reply. Couple of questions:

1) Is this a scripted game where certain events happen all the time? Or is it wide open depending on how you play it?

2) Have you played with the advisors turned on? Does that take anything away from the game?

3) Do you know how many turns make up a game for the typical 1805 campaign?

Thanks.



Azog -> RE: Really trying to decide... (10/17/2005 6:54:22 AM)

To question 1), I dont know exactly what you mean with scripted game, but it is not like Europa Universalis, where some kings come to a more or less fixed times. People declare war to you just depending how you play, and your diplomacy. If you play France, you may have quite everybody declaring war to you some time.
To question 2) the advisors, I would turn them off. They are quite useless. It is not so difficult to develop a good economy. I think it is more difficult guessing who is gonna attack you next, when, and how many troops you should have protecting your home country. Also is interesting to try to get peacefully some protectorates, and avoiding that other nations do it before you.
To question 3) 1805 . If you play normal difficulty with France, and you do it good, in 24-30 turns I think you could reach 1000 glory points. Playing France 1792 in difficult mode, I reached 1000 points in 45 turns or so, I am playing for 3000. It is very stressfull. Dont try anything big at the beginning, if you suffer some heart disease.



watchtower -> RE: Really trying to decide... (10/17/2005 11:23:11 AM)

If its any help I bought the game just before the weekend and at first it was a bit like learning Witp all over again in its complexity. I was little boy lost. Its now Monday morning and after reading all the posts on the COG forum, the guides, instructions and tutorial.................I have realised that this game rocks!!!

The advisors are a great things you switch them on or off at will if things get too much. The game is sooo replayable. The strategic battles are excellent and great fun and the overal detail is fantastic.

Now excuse me whilst I invade Russia............



Grand_Armee -> RE: Really trying to decide... (10/17/2005 11:45:55 AM)

Like they say, this game rocks! And if you're strapped for time, you can save it to play later. This game has many more variables than any other game I've seen.

The complexity goes away after a while, and it becomes quite manageable. Advisors will buy things you don't need because you have materials lying around.

The detailed battles are pretty good, and some will put you on the edge of your seat.

Best thing is...that you'll be able to play real people...so you can have more variations, yet.



Tigleth Pilisar -> RE: Really trying to decide... (10/18/2005 4:43:31 AM)

It is as wide open as you can get.

The complexity goes away with playing time because it doesn't really matter. You can play and give minimal attention to economics, development and diplomacy. If you do, the computer takes care of the detail. Economic, trade and diplomatic advisors don't seem to matter if you have them on or off. If you use the military advisor (have the AI do your strategic and tactical moves) you might as well not play the game.

Strategic combat is solid. Detailed combat is outstanding - just that you really need a human opponent. I find it hard to lose against the AI unless outnumbered 2 to 1, or I have bad troops.



slybelle -> RE: Really trying to decide... (10/18/2005 5:03:59 AM)

Took the plunge....I have purchased. Off to give it a try.



Doobious -> RE: Really trying to decide... (10/19/2005 3:16:23 AM)

Congrats!

You will not regret it. This game is a blast!



Suvorov928 -> RE: Really trying to decide... (10/19/2005 4:33:10 AM)

This is one of my favorite computer war games already. I can't stop playing it. Once you get past the learning curve, this game is amazing. The AI plays extremely well, but like one of the other posters, I wish they were a little stronger in detailed combat.

Great game that I will be playing for a very long time. I don't even care anymore that EIA won't come out before the Apocalypse and the second coming of Christ.




ericbabe -> RE: Really trying to decide... (10/19/2005 4:36:01 PM)

Thank you all for the nice comments and kind and encouraging words.

We're working on beefing up detailed combat AI, for COG and for the sequels. In particular, I'm working on (1) having the AI keep more coherent lines of battle, (2) knowing better when to strike a defensive position and dig in, and (3) knowing better when it has the advantage and to "go for the throat" so to speak. Tweaking the AI is a long process, and one fraught as you might imagine with unintended consequences. There are already mechanisms for each of these in place, but I think (1) is not given enough weight, (2) is not activated enough, and (3) is not aggressive enough.





Naomi -> RE: Really trying to decide... (10/20/2005 5:04:52 AM)

The AI seemed to improve quite a bit after the latest wave of beta-patches. At least one of France's opponents didn't aim just for Paris, instead of which it went along France's south borders sweeping each province and protectorate in its path. Bringing France's economic edifice to collapse might have served to be a better, or at least fresh, way to make it suffer and meet the fate of being forced by insurrectionists to surrender. (Did the dev ever tinker with the AI, or was it just my illusion? [sm=00000506.gif])



Gresbeck -> RE: Really trying to decide... (10/20/2005 5:41:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ericbabe

Thank you all for the nice comments and kind and encouraging words.

In particular, I'm working on (1) having the AI keep more coherent lines of battle, (2) knowing better when to strike a defensive position and dig in, and (3) knowing better when it has the advantage and to "go for the throat" so to speak.





Naomi's post seems to assume this is meant for movement in the strategic map; I thought that it was meant only for detailed battles. I wish I had misunderstood.



Naomi -> RE: Really trying to decide... (10/20/2005 6:47:52 PM)

Even more desirable is the AI who will be smarter strategically as well as tactically, isn't it? [:'(]



Tigleth Pilisar -> RE: Really trying to decide... (10/20/2005 9:52:48 PM)

sly ... glad you bought. I need to reiterate one of the best things about this program - the developers and people in this forum. Players are all willing to help. And developers are all willing to improve the game by listening to players, and also help you learn wherever possible. This game only gets better ....

Very professional Eric.



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