Divided Ground Middle East Conflicts? (Full Version)

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pad152 -> Divided Ground Middle East Conflicts? (10/19/2005 9:26:26 AM)

Divided Ground Middle East Conflicts?

I've seen no mention is this game?

Wasn't this the last of the Campaign Games?

Was is Matrix going to do with this title?





lancerunolfsson -> RE: Divided Ground Middle East Conflicts? (10/19/2005 9:49:50 AM)

DG is actualy the game of the CS series that i most hope Matrix does somthing with. Because it offers the greatest oportunities for expansion. It was the last of the CS games to come out and was somthing of a rush job.Hobby Mod builders have already done a lot of the work for VietNam, Cold War gone hot and Korea. The main thing that hurts their efforts is that the helicopters in DG just don't work right.



Wolfie1 -> RE: Divided Ground Middle East Conflicts? (10/19/2005 3:05:46 PM)

Divided Ground is the only CS game that I didn't purchase, all reports that ir was rushed and very buggy put me off, if Matrix are going to do a make-over on it I'll reconsider.



HobbesACW -> RE: Divided Ground Middle East Conflicts? (10/19/2005 9:36:46 PM)

I must have played the Campaign Series for a thousand hours or more in the past 6 or 7 years so I think anything that improves it must be worth some dosh as I hope to play it for as long or longer in the future. Divided Ground with the Vietnam/Korea mod etc must be the obvious choice for improvement. One of the problems is the lack of good balanced scenarios. If some of the problems with the game were fixed I'm sure people would make more effort to design good scenarios for the game - and play them.

Chris




HobbesACW -> RE: Divided Ground Middle East Conflicts? (10/20/2005 2:51:06 AM)

I'm just thinking a Matrix Games: Modern Conflicts game using an updated DG could be amazing. 1946 - to present day or even slightly into the future. Add the great Vietnam mod and the upcoming Korea mod. Change the game to include all the elements of modern combat and do it well.

It could be an incredible game. They have the engine pretty well 75% done. Is this too much to ask?

I'm sure if they had a couple of chaps working on this for a year or so it would be well worthwhile.

Chris



pad152 -> RE: Divided Ground Middle East Conflicts? (10/20/2005 8:12:22 AM)

Divided Ground Middle East Conflicts

I liked the demo but didn't buy due to bad reviews, I think it came out when Talonsoft was headed down hill and never got the patches or bug fixes.

I would really like to hear what Matrix plans to due with this title. We may not hear for some time untill someone has a chance to look at the code. I hope this one get's a closer look, there are very few wargames covering this era. Maybe with some updates the game engine could be used to create a Modern Battle Ground Campaign Series.[:)]



Jumbo -> RE: Divided Ground Middle East Conflicts? (10/23/2005 4:11:21 AM)

Hi pad152

I firmly believe it will be the Divided Ground disc and the modern modes created using it as the core platform, That will take the Campaign Series games to true greatness as far as PC wargaming goes. There are so many possibilities with it. I really see it as limitless. So many wars and conflicts can be covered.

Even the original Divided Ground could be redone. And redone right ! ... There would have to be IMO more things done than just taking out the bugs and such. There would have to be a rebalancing of most scenarios and several new scenarios offered covering the middle east to make it attractive. Also a very close look at all the troops and equipement offered and the values given to them. There are a few really ridiculous mistakes that were made regarding some of the equipement in that original DG disc. One that stands out in my mind is the Israili M4A3E8 Sherman tanks that have been given the exact same values, point for point as the American WWII M4A3E2(75)Jumbo's !

Eric



Hertston -> RE: Divided Ground Middle East Conflicts? (10/23/2005 1:34:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hobbes

I'm sure if they had a couple of chaps working on this for a year or so it would be well worthwhile.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Jumbo

I firmly believe it will be the Divided Ground disc and the modern modes created using it as the core platform, That will take the Campaign Series games to true greatness as far as PC wargaming goes. There are so many possibilities with it. I really see it as limitless. So many wars and conflicts can be covered.



As I understand it Matrix intend to sell the Campaign series games in a bundle? You are right, though, in that DG could certainly benefit from extra work that the others don't need to the same extent.

Perhaps it would be a good idea to leave the bundle as WW2 (EF, WF, Rising Sun), which does have a certain cohesion to it, and leave out DG for the time being. That could may be released some time later with the fixes done, and maybe bundled with Korea and Vietnam, or even later scenarios in an extended 'Campaign Series - "Modern" Warfare' sort of package, as Jumbo suggests?



Jumbo -> RE: Divided Ground Middle East Conflicts? (10/24/2005 3:21:33 AM)

Yeh I believe having the WWII and possibly the Pre WWII stuff bundled seperatly from the post WWII & Modern stuff would be the way to go. The WWII theaters RS, WF & EF seem to be complete for the most part. Thats including most of the projects that have been worked on by several Blitz club members.

On the other hand, the post WWII stuff. The Korean War mode ( still being worked on using the DG game as it's platform ).The Vietnam War mode ( complete for the most part and with a large amount of scenarios to go with it. It uses the DG game as it's platform ). And the DG middle east game that we allready have. But it sorely needs a make over IMO. There are many questionable issues with it.

IMO many of the modern tank values need a very close look and most likely some correcting. I can remember for the Blitz PB#3 WF expansion we included the U.K. Centurion MK.I heavy tank as a " what if " piece. One of the fellas thought to just transpose the existing armor values for an early Centurion heavy tank that was allready included in the Divided Ground game. Seems like that might be the thing to do, right ?.
Well as it turned out, That Centurion was only give a frontal protection value of 18 by the Talonsoft designers. Thats interesting becouse even the Panther tank for WWII has a frontal defense value of 21. The Centurions hull armor thickness and slope was almost identical to that of the Panther. However it's frontal protection on the turret was far better. A solid 152mm thick versus 100 to 120mm on the Panther depending on model types. And the quality of the U.K. armor was at least as good as on the German Panther.
So how is it that the Panther has been given a 15% better protection value at the front ?. And to top it off the turret is the most exposed portion of the tank ?. My answer : Many of the values given in the DG game and probably some of the modern modes fellas have been working on are not correct. These values should get a complete and thurough looking over before Matrix Games puts them out there for the public. This would be the time to set those values right.

Just my two cents



Adz -> RE: Divided Ground Middle East Conflicts? (10/26/2005 10:55:33 PM)

Jumbo,

I spent many months, even years, correcting the armour values (and all the other values) of all the units in Divided Ground. The Centurion Mk3 in my Divided Ground Mod (currently version 2.01) has a frontal defence value of 27.



Paul




lancerunolfsson -> RE: Divided Ground Middle East Conflicts? (10/26/2005 11:39:46 PM)

Yeah Paul you have done a lot of work on the game along with a couple of others (Mods and such) If Matrix were to fix the helicopter problem and work with you guys, Matrix could have a real winner with little effort. I'd be happy to pay for a rerelease of DG that just includes the stuff you guys have done and some scenarios that take advantage of that work.



Jumbo -> RE: Divided Ground Middle East Conflicts? (10/27/2005 12:46:22 AM)

Hi Paul,

Well thats refreshing news indeed. I wasn't aware .. Or did not make myself aware of your work correcting alot of that stuff in the DG game. I will have to download that version 2.01

While working with the PB#3 U.K. OOB, I recall giving the Centurion MK.1 tank a frontal value of 25. Curious to what formula you used to get those numbers for the MK.3 ?.. It seems your numbers aren't coming out very different to what I may have gotten for it.

Eric



Warhorse -> RE: Divided Ground Middle East Conflicts? (10/27/2005 12:58:38 AM)

Yeah Paul, if you could, or don't mind sharing the formula, I have a need for this in Korean War mod, I have a few new additions not found before, using Erics formula, I'm finding the values much better IMO, but a uniform template would be most welcome!![:D]

Mike



Jumbo -> RE: Divided Ground Middle East Conflicts? (10/27/2005 3:38:28 AM)

Hey Mike !

I'll have more for you by tomorrow regarding the PLA ( Korean War mode ). I found some good stuff [X(]

Eric



CHFoster -> RE: Divided Ground Middle East Conflicts? (11/30/2005 3:42:47 AM)

The problem is that DG is pretty much a non-game when it comes to the OOB's and scenarios. With sympathy for the folks who worked on it, the team that had created the CS was not much involved in either the OOB's or the scens and the DG OOB's and scenarios ended up being frankly neither good, accurate or interesting (as a generalization). There are further issues at to whether the CS engine is up to the challenge of tactical combat in the era of ATGM's, counter battery fire and close air support. So at least from where I sit, DG would need a completely new set of OOB's and scenarios to be worth re-issuing. As I have said elsewhere, since resources are likely to be scarce DG in specific and modern warfare in general would appear to me to be a low return on scarce resources.

One further note to all you "I want modern warfare" folks. I would suggest the way to get this (which I would love too) is to get a good reissue of the CS with improvements, bug fixes and some add ons. Then generate excellent sales and mod community support (to further goose sales). After Matrix can gauge sales and therefore market, they might then be persuaded to make a CS II which could be a major overhaul of the engine to include capabilities more friendly to modern warfare. This would have the two added advantages that 1) we'd get an improved version of the CS now, for sure not messed up by well intended tinkering and 2) Matrix and their development team would have that much more familiarity and feedback from their experience w/ this version of the CS which would make their successful creation of CS II all the more likely.

Cheers,

Craig



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