A wasted nation (Full Version)

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Naomi -> A wasted nation (10/20/2005 6:52:45 PM)

My nation is on the course of growing 34 provinces larger, by which time - as the new waste rule goes - my national production will have ground to a halt. [sm=00000007.gif]



carnifex -> RE: A wasted nation (10/20/2005 7:41:47 PM)

I'm playing Sweden and because I only have 15 province I am actually SWIMMING in resources. I'm not sure I like it. I got used to the old waste rules and managed my play around that. I actually had shortages of stuff and I couldn't build whatever I wanted. Now that's all changed. I crank out a Heavy Ship every other turn which smells a little funny to me considering I'm Sweden.

My ONLY bottleneck is Textiles, and it's not a real bottleneck because I can trade mountains of surplus goods to get all the Textiles I want.

I liked the old rules better. The new waste rules doubled or tripled my production capabilities. I'm only 4 years into the 72 campaign but every single one of my provinces has now had EACH development built up to level 5, and I don't have a Barracks lower than level 8.




ericbabe -> RE: A wasted nation (10/20/2005 8:17:22 PM)

The new waste rules is a loss of provinces over 20 times 3%; so with 34 provinces you lose (34-20)*3=52% of your production. Remember that provinces with 5 levels of Courts don't count toward this limit, nor do protectorate provinces, and that provinces with at least 7 levels of Courts/Culture are exempt from any waste losses.

I agree with Carnifex' opinion that the new waste rules are overall too generous. I'm thinking of adding a rules to make these rules stronger at the higher difficulty levels of the game.




Russian Guard -> RE: A wasted nation (10/20/2005 8:26:04 PM)


I strongly support that notion. I also agree that the v1.1 production was a real challenge but also a real sense of accomplishment in managing it.

Now it's irrelevent; items amundo. Almost to the point that you don't have to even check your provinces for production tweaks; just set and forget.




Naomi -> RE: A wasted nation (10/20/2005 10:15:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ericbabe

The new waste rules is a loss of provinces over 20 times 3%; so with 34 provinces you lose (34-20)*3=52% of your production. Remember that provinces with 5 levels of Courts don't count toward this limit, nor do protectorate provinces, and that provinces with at least 7 levels of Courts/Culture are exempt from any waste losses.

I agree with Carnifex' opinion that the new waste rules are overall too generous. I'm thinking of adding a rules to make these rules stronger at the higher difficulty levels of the game.



By 34 provinces larger, I meant 34 additional provinces, which in turn meant shily above 100% lost output. I am already midway to that objective in 5 years of time. Development culture or courts is at a slow pace when food demands are at a crippling high which deprives a nation (read it as France) of the luxury of mass-producing those materials with which to expand culture or courts for waste-reducing purposes. I appreciate the new waste rule as an enhanced check on overly ambitious terrestrial expansion before a nation is well placed to pursue it; however, imposing a cap to, or adopting a non-linear growth of, waste may do well to add a sense of reality.

Totally agree to the possibility of Carny's Swedish ship-building binge. I obtained Gothenburg as ceded and was glad to have a long pipeline of vessels.



Reiryc -> RE: A wasted nation (10/21/2005 1:38:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Russian Guard


I strongly support that notion. I also agree that the v1.1 production was a real challenge but also a real sense of accomplishment in managing it.

Now it's irrelevent; items amundo. Almost to the point that you don't have to even check your provinces for production tweaks; just set and forget.




Heck I don't even tweak the production anymore because it isn't necessary.

It's taken one element of the strategy of the game out I'm afraid... [:(]



Naomi -> RE: A wasted nation (10/21/2005 4:11:15 PM)

This element is still in place. We may yet have to check, with expansion into provinces less rich in the way of culture or jurisdiction, to ensure no labourer is being employed where output has been totally wasted. At which time we had better to reallocate labourers or send them to speed up infrastructure development.



Grand_Armee -> RE: A wasted nation (10/22/2005 10:20:31 AM)

Certainly development is faster. Which I don't mind. On the negative side, is the production of luxuries. Prussia for instance has one province that can produce an adequate number of spice, with another that can produce an adequate number of luxuries. All of her states on max production of food cannot produce enough wine to make up the balance should one of those states be ceded.

...perhaps I shall have to teach the Pommeranians how to make golf clubs...and bowling balls.

...und zen en take over Brunswick so I can haf a gut zupply of bowling pins.



Naomi -> RE: A wasted nation (10/22/2005 10:46:31 AM)

Prussia may be less constrained to pursue which commodity or material to give priority to, as it doesn't have large numbers of soldiers to begin with and, in the 1805 scenario, has no war affairs on hand. Playing France is different, where food is easily the top job in the agenda, which will compromise the production of luxuries-related stuff, that is important in boosting NML in starting stages. Fortunately, France can yet compensate it with a string of easily won battles to make and keep people jubilant.

I noticed, post-v.12, the starting food capacity of many provinces has been increased and the productivity of other commodities decreased.



Windfire -> RE: A wasted nation (10/23/2005 1:15:18 AM)

I am playing Russia in a 1792 game going to 1815. It is 1798 and the forces of most of the nations in the game are huge and most of the countries seem to have no shortage of available resources. While the earlier version seemed a little tight and hard to grasp, the current abundence is leading to excessive forces in the game and the elimination of strategies involved with managing tight production. I like the no food for garrisons, but it would be nice to have the resources tightened back up some so the overall availability is lower.



Naomi -> RE: A wasted nation (10/28/2005 2:18:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Windfire

I am playing Russia in a 1792 game going to 1815. It is 1798 and the forces of most of the nations in the game are huge and most of the countries seem to have no shortage of available resources. While the earlier version seemed a little tight and hard to grasp, the current abundence is leading to excessive forces in the game and the elimination of strategies involved with managing tight production. I like the no food for garrisons, but it would be nice to have the resources tightened back up some so the overall availability is lower.

I didn't know garrisions (on supply orders) are starting to consume no food. My finding is when divisions are set to forage and placed inside cities, they will live off the country. A related finding is when garrisions are set to forage (I refer to those already on garrision duty when forage orders are dictated), some of them will come out of the city confinements in the following turn and I then have to order them back in.



Ralegh -> RE: A wasted nation (10/29/2005 4:01:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Naomi
By 34 provinces larger, I meant 34 additional provinces, which in turn meant shily above 100% lost output. I am already midway to that objective in 5 years of time. Development culture or courts is at a slow pace when food demands are at a crippling high which deprives a nation (read it as France) of the luxury of mass-producing those materials with which to expand culture or courts for waste-reducing purposes. I appreciate the new waste rule as an enhanced check on overly ambitious terrestrial expansion before a nation is well placed to pursue it; however, imposing a cap to, or adopting a non-linear growth of, waste may do well to add a sense of reality.


Naomi, it is relatively easy to control waste. Provinces with courts over 5 dont count to the number of provinces accelerator, nor do protectorates (so make some places protectorates!).

In addition, any province with at least 7 levels of Courts OR Culture don't take any losses from waste at all.

I have an enormous France that isn't suffering any waste.



Naomi -> RE: A wasted nation (10/29/2005 7:00:15 AM)

Thanks. My France was too greedy and gobbled up many provinces - like the whole of Denmark [:'(] - at single strokes.



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