Interested in a PBEM league? (Full Version)

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Captain Cruft -> Interested in a PBEM league? (10/24/2005 11:02:56 PM)

I would be interested in how many players would be interested in participating in a PBEM league. A brief description of which is:

SPH2H mod
16 players (each gets a different country, drawn by lots)
15 games of 10-12 turns each, covering the period 1940-1944
Total duration in real time = 1 year
Buy a "team" and keep it through every game
Units gain experience and can be upgraded as time goes on

It's all entirely feasible but would involve a lot of work on the part of the "game master" i.e. me. That's why I thought I would run it past people first ...



Swamprat -> RE: Interested in a PBEM league? (10/25/2005 11:12:14 PM)

I like the idea and would like to be a part of it.

You're right about the amount of work needed though. Units gaining experience? Don't know how you are going to manage that. Keep a team and manage it through every game. I take it you have an ingenious plan for this?

Isn't there a blitz league running right now though?

Still, I'll sign up for it. It sounds like a great idea.



Captain Cruft -> RE: Interested in a PBEM league? (10/25/2005 11:28:05 PM)

Thanks for the interest.

The whole "remembering" thing is easy enough, it is basically just a very time consuming data entry exercise.

Games are setup in the scenario editor (where you can change exp levels, upgrade unit types etc.) and then converted to PBEM save files before being sent to players. The game master sets the passwords.
At game finish, the end game file is sent back to the game master, who can then look at the map and units and extract relevant date e.g. kills.

Experience would rise based on number of games played with a bonus for kills.
Units could be upgraded using a "points bank" accumulated by the players in their games. This would be derived somehow from the actual number of points scored in the battles. The actual upgrade mechanism would be to send a message to the game master, either from a web page or via email.

Teams and results are stored in an external database of some sort. Stats and results would be posted on a website.

The whole process is completely manual. Some of it is open to automation but this would mean writing code.



Captain Cruft -> RE: Interested in a PBEM league? (10/25/2005 11:30:03 PM)

P.S. I was thinking of a permanent league rather than the irregular tournaments run by the Blitz and others.



Swamprat -> RE: Interested in a PBEM league? (10/25/2005 11:34:59 PM)

Wow.[&o]


So if games are set up by you in the scenario editor, that means that you are actually controlling the deployments, rather than the player. Do you control the purchase as well? Is it like using a scenario for a PBEM, or is there some other aspect involved.



Captain Cruft -> RE: Interested in a PBEM league? (10/25/2005 11:49:13 PM)

Yes it is using a scenario for PBEM. There is no way to do the experience changes and upgrades using the standard Battle setup routine. Not without losing the PBEM security anyhow.

The initial purchase of the "team" would be done by each player and then sent to the GM. Then, for each game, the GM deploys this force into the relevant scenario in a generic way. The type of maps, deploy lines and VH placements I have in mind would hopefully cause this to not be a problem. Also the fact that I envisage teams to be comprised of c.1,200-1,500 points will help. Not much to deploy ... :)




Captain Cruft -> RE: Interested in a PBEM league? (10/25/2005 11:53:07 PM)

Just a note.

My original 16 players number is not fixed in stone. It was just intended to cover all the "interesting" countries available. Four would be the actual minimum of players required.



DzrtFox -> RE: Interested in a PBEM league? (10/26/2005 6:14:08 AM)

Hey guys,
I'm still kind of new around here but I'd definitely be interested in something like this. Thanks to The Academy at SPWaW.com I have played my first two PBEM games and am an official addict...

Sign me up!!




Captain Cruft -> RE: Interested in a PBEM league? (10/26/2005 11:07:36 PM)

Nice to see someone keen :)

I'm not actually signing anyone up yet. There needs to be more interest.

Give it another week or so to see if anyone else turns up.



Kokoda -> RE: Interested in a PBEM league? (10/27/2005 1:05:46 PM)

I'd be in something like this too. [X(] Sounds an awful lot of work for the administrator though. I'm filled with admiration.




Captain Cruft -> RE: Interested in a PBEM league? (10/28/2005 9:07:50 PM)

Here is an example of the sort of game I am talking about.

It is called scen019, you may want to rename it before installing into the SCEN sub-folder. Also, if you don't have SPH2H the units will probably not look right.

The battle is France vs. Germany in May 1940 with 1,200 points each. Deployment took me about 10 minutes ... Obviously the experience/morale/kills setting stuff would lengthen that time somewhat but it shows it's doable :)

Download here (zip, 34kb)

SPH2H info here



Swamprat -> RE: Interested in a PBEM league? (10/28/2005 10:08:47 PM)

Not how I would normally deploy, and the thought of a pre-battle barrage falling among those packed troops...shudder

[:D]


But it looks neat and simple and easy to understand. Therefore, it looks as if it will work. Are the v-hexes laid out as they would be in a league game? Again they have a simplicity that is actually ingenius.

My only worry is the experience ratings. Whoever gets to play the Germans will have veteran troops going into elite status very quickly.
To maintain the simplicity theme, would it be better to set Historic ratings OFF, and set everyone to the same XP level on the first game? After that, everyone's force will grow in a different shape according to past experiences on the battlefield. It will, like the deployment, create a level playing field.



DoubleDeuce -> RE: Interested in a PBEM league? (10/28/2005 10:44:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Swamprat

Not how I would normally deploy, and the thought of a pre-battle barrage falling among those packed troops...shudder

Actually this type games/battles could be set up to allow the Attacker OR Defender to personally deploy their forces but NOT both. It might slow the setup down by a day or so but shouldn't be any more than that.



Captain Cruft -> RE: Interested in a PBEM league? (10/28/2005 11:17:20 PM)

I'm not sure how you would do that DD. The idea is that the GM starts the scenario in PBEM mode and assigns password to both players. Then the file gets sent off to player 1 who is presented with starting Turn 1.

Swamprat:-

There are no pre-bombardments since players do not deploy.
The deployment pattern is, as I said, "generic". Since the lines are near the edges there should be time to "sort out" prior to making contact.
Yes the VHs would be like that. I can't think of a fairer way to do it, just need to make sure none of them end up in a water hex ...

As far as the experience level goes, yes the Germans would have an advantage. As indeed would every country relative to some others. That is part of the design and also why some sort of fair system e.g. drawing lots would be needed for allocating countries. FWIW in SPH2H German stuff is quite a bit more expensive so that would ameloriate the effect to an extent.

My idea is that, given the different capabilities of the countries, players would employ appropriate tactics. For example, run and hide ;) It is not compulsory to contest the entire map. Troops will gain experience for just taking part and, whilst a game might be lost, some points may still be gained (which can then used to upgrade kit). Games will be short i.e. 10-12 turns so the possibility of total annihilation is reduced.

There would also be a ceiling for all numeric values e.g. 99. So eventually your useless Bulgarians could catch up with the uber Germans. Like I said the whole idea is for a permanent league ...



Korpraali V -> RE: Interested in a PBEM league? (10/31/2005 6:42:15 AM)

The idea is very interesting, but I don't have time for it right now. But whatever you do don't bury the idea!

[8D]



DoubleDeuce -> RE: Interested in a PBEM league? (10/31/2005 6:59:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

I'm not sure how you would do that DD. The idea is that the GM starts the scenario in PBEM mode and assigns password to both players. Then the file gets sent off to player 1 who is presented with starting Turn 1.

Are the players or the GM choosing the forces? It can be done, its just a matter of who purchases and deploys. If the GM purchases and deplys he can send the deploy file to the defending player to load into the editor and deploy his forces. The file comes back to the GM who then adds and deploys the attackers forces. He then uses that file as the base scenario file for creating the PBem Game.

There is a little more then what I stated briefly above but thts it in a nutshell.



Captain Cruft -> RE: Interested in a PBEM league? (10/31/2005 10:02:25 PM)

Yes you could do it like that with a Battle. This would be using a Scenario though, in order to set the experience/morale/kills/smoke etc.




SiG -> RE: Interested in a PBEM league? (11/1/2005 12:14:39 AM)

When will you begin signing in players? I haven't got any experience with H2H yet, but if you have room for one more contender, I'll start training.



DoubleDeuce -> RE: Interested in a PBEM league? (11/1/2005 1:36:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

Yes you could do it like that with a Battle. This would be using a Scenario though, in order to set the experience/morale/kills/smoke etc.

You can use scenario files also. How do you edit the kills? I have never seen a field for that in the Unit Editor. I know you can edit the unit stats but kills is not one of them AFAIK.



Captain Cruft -> RE: Interested in a PBEM league? (11/1/2005 3:42:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Double Deuce
How do you edit the kills? I have never seen a field for that in the Unit Editor. I know you can edit the unit stats but kills is not one of them AFAIK.


Using WAWEd. It allows you to edit all data.



DoubleDeuce -> RE: Interested in a PBEM league? (11/1/2005 5:18:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

quote:

ORIGINAL: Double Deuce
How do you edit the kills? I have never seen a field for that in the Unit Editor. I know you can edit the unit stats but kills is not one of them AFAIK.


Using WAWEd. It allows you to edit all data.

Aahhh! So you are outside the normal Game Editor. I've used most of the 3rd party editors (primarilly WAWMap) except WAWEd. Does it work pretty well?



Captain Cruft -> RE: Interested in a PBEM league? (11/1/2005 3:07:03 PM)

WAWEd seems to work just fine. At least with SPH2H anyway.



Captain Cruft -> PBEM League = 0 (11/6/2005 5:39:39 PM)

OK, I won't be doing this now. Just nothing like the level of required interest, sorry.

To those who did express an interest, thank you.

I may re-visit the idea later on when WinSPWW2 is out. It's a better all round platform. However, this forum would not then be the appropriate place to talk about it ...



Korpraali V -> RE: PBEM League = 0 (11/7/2005 12:11:39 AM)

Have you tried the Depot?



Swamprat -> RE: PBEM League = 0 (11/7/2005 12:13:32 AM)

I was just think the same thing.



Captain Cruft -> RE: PBEM League = 0 (11/7/2005 1:08:57 AM)

Obviously I thought about it. The thing is, if they wanted to do something like this they would do it themselves. I don't want to tread on any toes ...

Also, it seems most of the Depot guys also come here occasionally.

Like I said, the project is on hold now anyway.



Ironfist738 -> RE: PBEM League = 0 (11/8/2005 5:24:26 AM)

I would be interrested in the Pbem league. [sm=Cool-049.gif] I have competed in some of Double D's Campaigns [&o]. And I have to say those were some of the most enjoyable games I've ever played. I would be more than happy to particapate. [8D]



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