RE: German balloons (Full Version)

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Hard Sarge -> RE: German balloons (11/17/2005 3:38:11 PM)

good info on the Flak DBS

again, for the Ballons, we can argue either side and still with in reason be right, my hassle is, in BoB we have ballons that can be killed, in BTR we have ballons that can be killed and ballons that can not be killed

if they are barrages that should replace there losses at the end of the day fine, make them ALL that way, if the game is set that they have to be replaced from the pool, FINE, just make all of them have to be replaced

that is the only point I am trying to make

if they are to become self contained units, we need to look at the build rates

I want it to be fair, but I also want it to be level across both games

from what I know of the Arm system in BTR, no the Ballons are not made at this or that plant, it is a abstrack number (if you cripple ARM, I don't know if they keep building the same or not, I didn't look for that when I had the chance)

ARM for the most part, are just targets with in the game (as it stands right now)

some do build tank parts, and some build AA parts, most most of them are just "nothing" targets




Speedysteve -> RE: German balloons (11/17/2005 3:46:34 PM)

Hi HS,

Thats right. We need consistency for all sides and also accurate modelling of them. I remember seeing a while back that there were 2400 BB's in use during the BOB but thats not overly useful (didn't list where, prod rate etc) and i'm not convinced of it's reliability.

Steven



DBS -> RE: German flak (11/17/2005 5:00:56 PM)

Further to my puzzlement over Bomber Command being concerned in 1941 over light flak in the 12,000-16,000 band, have just revisited Westermann's "Flak". Makes the point that in the early war years, German flak frequently resorted to blind barrier fire against RAF night raids. And in Jan 41, Goring, worried at ammo expenditure, specifically had to ban 37mm batteries from using the tactic. This makes much more sense - light flak hosing up to maximum ceiling, with very little probability of a hit, but still damn disconcerting to the aircrews flying towards the target. And of course, at this stage of the war, RAF crews were often descending to 9,000 or even 6,000 feet to try to spot specific targets in the dark, especially airfields and ports.



DBS -> RE: balloons (11/17/2005 5:26:55 PM)

HS

Absolutely agree, must be consistent. I shall look for figures for the British in BoB, but I believe that in both BoB and BTR we would be perfectly justified in not giving the defender a fixed pool of balloons which regenerates after damage but does not increase in strength. For BoB, we are dealing with a relatively short period of time; if there are any reinforcements that should be had, it would be in the form of occasional fixed reinforcements to reflect the formation and deployment of a new squadron - eg extra 10 balloons on 10th September or whatever. For the Germans, as I say, BTR covers the period when the balloon force is in decline. Not suggesting we withdraw balloons, but at least don't add any. But still allow both sides to redeploy balloons as they wish.



otisabuser2 -> RE: balloons (11/17/2005 8:05:24 PM)

quote:

Absolutely agree, must be consistent. I shall look for figures for the British in BoB, but I believe that in both BoB and BTR we would be perfectly justified in not giving the defender a fixed pool of balloons which regenerates after damage but does not increase in strength. For BoB, we are dealing with a relatively short period of time; if there are any reinforcements that should be had, it would be in the form of occasional fixed reinforcements to reflect the formation and deployment of a new squadron - eg extra 10 balloons on 10th September or whatever. For the Germans, as I say, BTR covers the period when the balloon force is in decline. Not suggesting we withdraw balloons, but at least don't add any. But still allow both sides to redeploy balloons as they wish.


[:)]

Hi DBS, you may have access to far better material on balloons than I have. The best I have is 2 lists in TCG James book on Battle of Britain, one for 31st July and an almost identical one a month later.
It's in the form of:-

No30 Gp London, Chigwell, No 4 Balloon Centre
908 Sqn, Metropolis, 5 flights of 9 balloons
909 Sqn, East Ham, 5 flights of 9 balloons
910 Sqn, Dagenham, Essex 5 flights of 9 balloons ( includes 3 waterbourne sites ).........and so on

I did think this was good enough for game purposes as it is far better than what is in it already. However, in light of whta you have already posted [&o]

regards Otisabuser



DBS -> RE: balloons (11/17/2005 10:06:51 PM)

No mate, we're looking at the same lists. But I do think it is good enough for our purposes.



otisabuser2 -> RE: balloons (11/17/2005 11:00:35 PM)

Cheers DBS,

so what needs to be changed is, add a little routine at game start which copies all balloon numbers (A) at a location to another location in the database (B). Lord knows there's enough free space in the database.

During the turn, balloons get destroyed. The value of A at each site depletes. This gives the chance for low level attacks after the balloon busters have been in. This already works in game.

At the end of the day, another routine restores the original value of A at each site by copying B, which is the unchanged value.

....or in English, the sites re-inflate their balloons from stores for the next day.

Balloons work properly and everyone's happy. [:)]

.....I think

regards Otisabuser



otisabuser2 -> RE: balloons (11/29/2005 12:21:04 AM)

Have posted the Otis/DBS balloon list to JCL. [:)]



BigDuke66 -> RE: British Anti-Aircraft weapons 1940 (10/3/2013 11:36:04 PM)

Well are the values now correct for BoB?
Is "effective" ceiling or "max" ceiling used?



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