RE: Civ IV.. (Full Version)

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rhondabrwn -> RE: Civ IV.. (11/25/2005 6:58:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Actually with a few modifications CIV IV can be made to play very much like CIV I & CIV II.

I went in and modified the timeline so the first 4000 years are the first 400 turns, adjusted the research values so there aren't modern tanks in bc and turned on "aggressive ai" feature. Holy cow, I haven't won a single game and this is playing Prince and Monarchy level of difficulty. I could at least have some pretty tight games on Monarchy of CIV II.

With 400 turn ancients play and slow research, you'll be using and defending with your ancient units for a long long time. At least 200 turns. Getting to Bronze and Iron working to get the spearmen/swordsmen will take a considerable amount of time (and this still doesn't mean you automatically get them, unless you get copper and iron in your provincial areas). Archers will be your life savers and caveman wars will be nothing unusual. Chariots will appear and then the fun really begins as 12 stack AI armies come marching across your border, taking pretty much what they want. ;)

Also by changing the timeline, you can get to 10 cities pretty quickly even taking 25 turns to build a settler (this like CIV I & CIV II). So, you can still get the game you enjoyed with the new perks of CIV IV like religion, which is really pretty neat, you can use it diplomatically to try to keep your borders secure from your neighbors, just adopt their religion or hope they adopt yours. Having the border restrictions is pretty sound, I never liked alien armies marching across my territories freely in the first place like in CIV I, II and III. But, the AI is sneaky it will be your friend, you'll open up your borders for trade cause they will be peaceful towards you, you'll seemingly have many years of peace and harmony as they slowly and tactially move combat units near one of your cities, maybe even your captial and then BOOM declaration of war and bye bye city or capital...YEAH THE FLIPPIN AI BACKSTABBED ME LIKE THAT!! lol A neat trick humans always do to them. ;)

It doesn't take a wiz to modify this game to be any of the CIV's before it. I hate modding, but, I found this so simple a 10 year old could do it. It's nothing more than a few lines changed in the timeline dating system and a little trial and error getting the research values correct so modern tanks don't hit the scene in bc. (took me about 3 games). If you play on a PANGEA map with 14 civs, it's a blast. Adjust the HUGE map size from the default 32x16 to 80x60 or 100x60 and you'll get a rip roaring warmonger of a game. If you want a more diplomatic game, just turn the aggressive ai back off again and turn off barbarians altogether (these just hamper both you and the AI) I tend to like all nations to get the same start without barbarians bringing in that random screw me or them up feature. It works great for me this way, all nations will usually have 7 to 8 cities when I get my 10th.

Some will have already started wars also in this time frame. I watched India smoke America each had 6 cities to start and when the flames cleared America had been decimated, but, Germany had also entered the war on America and they took a couple of cities also. hahah Poor poor America wiped out by India and Germany.

Out of the box CIV IV IS an RTS players turn based game come true. All the games even EPIC HUGE play too fast for my tastes, to say one could play a game in 8 hours or less isn't incorrect. It does play fast, too fast for old CIV grogs that's for sure. But, the game comes with the easy to use "OPTIONS" and easy to modify "scripts" that it can be any game you want it to be with just a few changes and a little trial and error. EPIC HUGE PANGEA games are simply the best I've ever played of all the CIV series after I modded it. The AI aggression is there and/or the diplomacy is there whichever you prefer. I suggest turning off "first to alpha centauri" as a victory condition as well. Work for domination, culture or diplomatic victories, turn off timed victory as well. You'll get the challenge you want then. ;)


Fantastic post! I may actually consider purchasing the game now.




ilovestrategy -> RE: Civ IV.. (11/26/2005 6:05:03 AM)

Rhonda, thanks for checking up on prices for me, i really appreciate that [sm=00001746.gif]




Pippin -> RE: Civ IV.. (11/26/2005 10:58:11 AM)

I have worked up to Prince level... but the AI seems to complete the space ship project just too fast to win.





ravinhood -> RE: Civ IV.. (11/26/2005 2:08:22 PM)

I see you've encountered the "tougher AI" as well Pippin. Prince is like Emperor level of old CIV games, I used to could slaugher Prince level and Monarchy was my favorite game. But, in CIV IV, woah, with my mod and "ai aggressiveness" ON, I feel like I AM THE AI now. lol




Pippin -> RE: Civ IV.. (11/26/2005 3:14:55 PM)

I used to stick to only Deity on Civ IV, and could win diplomatic, space, or cultural victory that way. Now I'm only playing vs half the AI strength, and getting my ass kicked.

Maybe if I figure out this whole religeon thing I can get a better edge. I understand the government thing, but too many religions. I build just about every possible temple but I'm not sure if they even help, unless you have a specific religeon for THAT temple? Sometimes I get the AI to DEMAND I switch religeons. As soon as I do that, another AI forces me to switch to another one again.





gunny -> RE: Civ IV.. (11/26/2005 7:52:31 PM)

Been playin this for a few weeks. I reserved making any comments til now. Glad I did cos I would have slammed this game the first week. This is the best Civ game IMHO, and I've played all 6 of em. As alot of you have.
All I gotta say, until you comprehend which government is required for war, which is best for technology, and which makes money.... one will have empty build lists in peace, be invaded during war, and flat broke any other time. Get that licked, constantly flip Governments, then the game play is enjoyable.




rhondabrwn -> RE: Civ IV.. (11/26/2005 8:03:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

Rhonda, thanks for checking up on prices for me, i really appreciate that [sm=00001746.gif]


You are more than welcome! I hope you get your game machine back up and running very soon! If you have any technical questions about upgrading, feel free to e-mail me for help or recommendations.




ravinhood -> RE: Civ IV.. (11/26/2005 8:33:39 PM)

Religion Pippin basically is just another means to postpone the inevitable of going to war. If you take those nations surrounding you's religion they'll be nicer, trade with you more easily and help you out if you are attacked, but, keeping your borders surrounded by your own religion isn't easy, so eventually someone or several are gonna come after you and force you to change religions as they take your cities one at a time. hehe

The advantage of religion besides good diplomatic relations with other nations that have it, if you can get the "holy city" of that religion then every city on the map that adpots your religion pays you tribute of 1gp per turn. ;) To get the holy city means tech rushing the religious line in the tech tree at the expense of weakening yourself monetarily and militarily. See, you have to make those kinds of decisions.

This is one of those games where you can't be ALL THINGS or get ALL THINGS (wonders an such). You have to PLAN your future pretty carefully. From religion, to politques, to military to economics. Now I take more of an economic approach to the early game, those extra coins you get when you place down cottages really add up not only in military units but also research value. Placement of your cities is very important, you can drop on an industrialized set of squares (lots of hammers for production here, but, little or no economy squares (gold coins), or you can look for the gold mine of economy place to settle (lots of gold coins, average hammers), or you can look for the mother of trade place to settle (3 or more trade items that your city will enclose, good for luxuries to keep your people happy and trade to keep your enemies happy) ;)

This is not the type of Civ where you'll have 30 cities to play with. If you get 10 cities consider yourself lucky, but, everything is faster in this version so you don't need 30 cities for income or production. Teching up is quicker, advancing the timeline is quicker, being elminated by the AI is quicker lol. Thas why I like my mod the best, I like SLOW LONG games of CIV and I get 400 turns of sheer enjoyment out of the ancients timeline. ;) With the ease of modding one could literally make the entire game play out in the ancients and just play for a timed victory or cultural or domination or conquest victory (leaving out diplomatic and space race) of however many turns you wish to play it out. My game lasts a total of 960 turns if I ever get to the end. lol To push futuristic techs off the chart just increase the research values to where it would take 1000 turns to get to the first one of the next epoch. It's not that hard, just takes some trial and error. ;)

If I could change one thing in the mod file it would be the starting date, this is static at the year 4000bc, I would push it back futher to 6000bc or 10000bc and play a pure ancients game I think. I'm an ancients fanatic, though I do like the medieval period as well, once I get the ancients down pat, going to work on having 200 or so turns of medieval era play and then steamroll it when gunpowder hits cause I get bored playing that portion of the game. But, that's what I mean, you can make it any type of game you want. If you like more modern play, just adjust the research values downward, you can have modern tanks by the year 1000bc lol, the timeline is what makes it seem weird, but, if you just think of the game in "turns" and disregard the timeline, then it's enjoyable for anyone.




Pippin -> RE: Civ IV.. (11/27/2005 7:40:32 AM)

Hmm, not sure if it is worth it altogether then. I take the risk of gambling to make the holy city, spend all my tech for silly religeons... and even if I get lucky... all I get is one measily gold for each city on my religion? So maybe I make a few bucks if lucky? lol.

Another problem is I have to use a small or tiny map or this game runs SLOW even on a high end graphics card. That is even less cities that may pay me. Grrrrrr.

I shall do experimentations...




Cmdrcain -> RE: Civ IV.. (11/27/2005 1:11:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gunny

Been playin this for a few weeks. I reserved making any comments til now. Glad I did cos I would have slammed this game the first week. This is the best Civ game IMHO, and I've played all 6 of em. As alot of you have.
All I gotta say, until you comprehend which government is required for war, which is best for technology, and which makes money.... one will have empty build lists in peace, be invaded during war, and flat broke any other time. Get that licked, constantly flip Governments, then the game play is enjoyable.




Humm It is CIV "IV" and you say "VI" of them played [:D]




ravinhood -> RE: Civ IV.. (11/27/2005 5:28:21 PM)

Well if you count CIV-NET and CIV CALL to Power there are 6 of em. ;)




gunny -> RE: Civ IV.. (11/27/2005 7:23:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cmdrcain

Humm It is CIV "IV" and you say "VI" of them played [:D]


[;)] I knew someone would bite. Somewhere between Sid Miers Civ II and Civ III. Activision put out Civ CTP and Call to Power 2. They were very good and more so resembled Civ IV. Plus technology went from ancient to hover tanks and space marines.




Pippin -> RE: Civ IV.. (11/28/2005 5:22:49 AM)

Grrr.. Well tried more of that religion thing, didnt really help much. I did knowing fair well I was going to get attacked, took myoutmost city, turned it into a fortress, and placed in a rediculous amount of units. Sure enough, no warnign at all I get attacked by the AI. This AI was already in battle with another AI, and only had about 1 city left.

Yet SOMEHOW, with one city the AI sent 40 units instantly to my territory, and took out my overly defended fortress with ease. Then pumped out what seemed to be another 10 units a turn, (with just one city!?)

Me thinks the AI is cheating on these higher levels. Can't figure it out.





Reiryc -> RE: Civ IV.. (11/28/2005 6:13:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pippin

Grrr.. Well tried more of that religion thing, didnt really help much. I did knowing fair well I was going to get attacked, took myoutmost city, turned it into a fortress, and placed in a rediculous amount of units. Sure enough, no warnign at all I get attacked by the AI. This AI was already in battle with another AI, and only had about 1 city left.

Yet SOMEHOW, with one city the AI sent 40 units instantly to my territory, and took out my overly defended fortress with ease. Then pumped out what seemed to be another 10 units a turn, (with just one city!?)

Me thinks the AI is cheating on these higher levels. Can't figure it out.




The AI does cheat at higher levels.

I believe, when you set the difficulty factor, if you mouse over the choices, it tells you that.




ravinhood -> RE: Civ IV.. (11/28/2005 6:29:29 AM)

The AI CHEAT??!! Nevah! ;) hehe But, you're a HUMAN Pippin you're suppose to be able to overcome any cheating or advantages and handicaps to the AI, surely you've always know that? ;)




Pippin -> RE: Civ IV.. (11/28/2005 2:44:32 PM)

Argggh.

I tried again last night and failed. This time I gave everything to the AI it asked hoping I wouldn't go to war. I ended up not going to war for once, but it cost me even more in the long run. Giving away my techs and money, I couldn't keep up with the race and got left way behind.... again I got nailed by the space race.

Also what's up with mutual protection pact? I was only offered once... with someone who was getting his butt kicked :(





ravinhood -> RE: Civ IV.. (11/28/2005 8:56:32 PM)

Lol it was trying to suker you into a war you couldn't win. Don'tcha love the NEW IMPROVE AI? hehe

If it makes you feel any better though I haven't won a game either. I play Prince and Monarchy games. But, I also play HUGE EPIC maps with 14 civs. I like lotsa competiton. But, it's not the winning or losing, it actually feels like FUN this time around. There's no sure thing or strategy or advantage you can one up the AI with this time around it seems. This is like playing with your buddies and every so often you "might" win. ;)

Well not unless you exploit it to the max, use the tiniest map and 2 AI civs and just go over and clobber them right off the bat. lol




JosephL -> RE: Civ IV.. (11/29/2005 1:11:01 AM)

The Holy City Strategy:

Hey guys, Don't tell David but I have been playing Civ4 quite a bit now ;-). Someone earlier mentioned the Holy City Strategy:

This I have found to be the absolute best strategy in the game, believe it or not!

The reason is that religion is worth culture and money and having all the religions means you control which religion spreads...

Try aiming to get EVERY religion (it won't be easy). You can also try to do it in a SINGLE city if you are really crazy... but once you get them all: Decide which religion you want to spread. Get a great prophit and build their religious building. This religion will quickly become the dominent religion on the planet. Now everyone is one religion and wars will be much less frequent. Best of all you will get +1 gold (modified by buildings) for every religion that is in a city. Do some quick math with good planning:

20 cities on the map with a single religion is 20 gold. +100% for a market, bank, and grocer. +100% for Wall Street = 60 gold for 1 city. This means your 1 city should nearly single handedly be able to support your entire empire at 100% research (especially if you begin spreading a second religion later on). If you need to later in the game, spread MORE religions and build the right buildings and you can easily have hundreds of gold per turn from religion with GREAT relations with other kingdoms. Just remember relations alone wont save you, so keep pumping out military units like mad and always be prepaired for a jihad.

I've pulled off this strategy as high as Prince, but haven't yet gotten past that. The best way this can occur is if you are on a map where you are alone on your continent. Then the odds are high that NOBODY else will have any religion for a thousand years or more, which means 1 less happy face and no religious buildings... and that means your cities will be bigger, stronger, and more dangerous.

And the argued best civilization to achieve this is India, thanks to their industrius and mystic combination. I think there may also be one that is financial and has mysticism...

Anyway, its a fun strategy... the ultimate holy city.... which is the ultimate way to keep 100% research.

(Also if you plan very carefully you can easily achieve a cultural victory with this setup... and if you can move swiftly and have the right advantages, you also are the only civilization that will benefit from the religious military xp bonus. Remember: Religion + Barracks + Vassalage = the ultimate army production. Against an unsuspecting and non-religious foe... they are doomed)

-Joe




ravinhood -> RE: Civ IV.. (11/29/2005 2:11:53 AM)

Lol sounds like Joe has got it down pat. And I'm tellin, you're not playin Matrixgames ALMMMMMM! hahaha




Pippin -> RE: Civ IV.. (11/29/2005 3:34:12 AM)

Ok, I will experiment with india next. I assume they are able to build religious buildings faster. I did use prophets to make those extra buildings but didn't realy see the point, so I just abosorb them into the cities. As for engineers I used to absorb them into my buildings, IIRC they make you build faster by adding production. However, lately I'm more of a fan of just stockpiling engineers and using them to rush-build wonders.





Cmdrcain -> RE: Civ IV.. (11/29/2005 9:07:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gunny


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cmdrcain

Humm It is CIV "IV" and you say "VI" of them played [:D]


[;)] I knew someone would bite. Somewhere between Sid Miers Civ II and Civ III. Activision put out Civ CTP and Call to Power 2. They were very good and more so resembled Civ IV. Plus technology went from ancient to hover tanks and space marines.



I don't consider that activision ripoff a true "CIV" [:'(][:'(] Version..

Its Sid or not




ravinhood -> RE: Civ IV.. (11/29/2005 9:38:09 AM)

Well you could then just add CIV-NET and CIV III CONQUESTS! ;) Thas two more ;)




Pippin -> RE: Civ IV.. (11/30/2005 12:52:04 AM)

Bah... tried the religion thing again last night.... still no help...





Cmdrcain -> RE: Civ IV.. (11/30/2005 8:10:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Well you could then just add CIV-NET and CIV III CONQUESTS! ;) Thas two more ;)



LOL!

I have Conquests, it came with play the world Basically those are "mods" of Civ III so should be considered subparts of Civ III in fact PTW and C3C installed under My Civ III installation as sub folders under Civ III...

Sooo You have Civ I, II, III (and its Sub-Mods PTW/C3C) and now Civ IV

[:'(][8|]




ravinhood -> RE: Civ IV.. (11/30/2005 9:35:48 AM)

Nah, they all had a retail price. :)




Pippin -> RE: Civ IV.. (11/30/2005 3:03:00 PM)

ARggh has ANYONE beat civ IV on prince level?

Still no success. Seems the space race is still won with me 20 techs behind lol.
What is even more ammazing, is this happens even when I have been pumping 100% into tech funding from the start O_o






gunny -> RE: Civ IV.. (12/1/2005 1:15:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cmdrcain
quote:

ORIGINAL: gunny
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cmdrcain
Humm It is CIV "IV" and you say "VI" of them played [:D]

[;)] I knew someone would bite. Somewhere between Sid Miers Civ II and Civ III. Activision put out Civ CTP and Call to Power 2. They were very good and more so resembled Civ IV. Plus technology went from ancient to hover tanks and space marines.


I don't consider that activision ripoff a true "CIV" [:'(][:'(] Version..
Its Sid or not


It IS a true CIV.
Activision bought the license for Advanced Civilization from Avalon Hill. And based the rule set on the boardgame. Who actually produced it or hammered out the code is a moot point.
Microprose got sued by AH and Activision for the name: Sid Miers Civilization, SMC.
[:D][:D][:D]










general billy -> RE: Civ IV.. (12/3/2005 11:34:10 PM)

Civ IV plays online best with other human opponents. AI cheats when u play hard, and it lets u win when its easy.




MadScot -> RE: Civ IV.. (12/4/2005 1:14:37 AM)

quote:

It IS a true CIV.


What's even funnier is all the hero-worship feeding Sid Meier's ego about how he's the "inventor" of Civilization's concepts .... if anyone deserves credit as "father of the concept" it's the original inventor, not some knock-off merchant....




Pippin -> RE: Civ IV.. (12/5/2005 1:42:47 AM)

Dear god... Even when I had the largest continent all to myself, I couldn't keep up with the tech race.... This sucks :(





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