Sorted AFV Unit Prices (Full Version)

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victorhauser -> Sorted AFV Unit Prices (7/6/2000 2:41:00 AM)

I went through the OOBs for Germany, Japan, Italy, USA, UK, and USSR and sorted the prices of the SPWAW AFVs as they are currently (v2.3). Note that these are ONLY prices for AFVs, and do not include self-propelled artillery, or any other unit types (no halftracks, trucks, guns, infantry, etc.). Germany Maus 250 UK Centurion 3 223 Germany Jagdtiger 220 Germany Elefant/44 202 Germany Elefant/43 200 USSR IS-3 194 Germany Tiger II 188 USSR IS-2m 178 USSR IS-1 178 UK Crocodile 171 UK Centurion 2 165 Germany Jagdpanther 161 UK Centurion 1 156 UK Churchill AVRE 149 Germany Nashorn 147 Germany Panther UHU 144 USSR IS-2 139 UK Sherman IIC 138 UK VC Firefly 137 UK Sherman IC 135 USSR KV-85 129 USA M46 Patton 128 UK Churchill VII 128 USSR T-44 126 Germany Panther G 125 UK Challenger 123 Germany Panther A 121 USSR T-34/85 120 USA M26 Patton 119 USA M4a3e2 Jumbo 76 117 Germany Tiger I 117 Germany Panther D 116 Germany Sturmtiger 116 UK Comet 113 USSR ISU-122 113 UK Churchill VIII 106 UK M-10 Achilles 102 UK Churchill VI 101 USA M4a3e2 Jumbo 100 Germany Brummbar 100 USSR SU-100 99 UK Churchill IV 98 USSR PT-34 96 UK Churchill III 95 UK Sherman IIA 94 USSR KV-8 94 Germany JPz-IV/70B 94 UK Churchill IVNA 92 USSR ISU-152 91 USA M4a3/76W Sher 89 USA M4a3e8 HVSS 88 UK Sherman DD 88 UK Archer 88 Germany JPz-IV/70A 88 UK Wolverine 87 USSR SU-152 87 USA M36 Jackson 86 UK Sherman Crab 85 UK SherDozer 85 UK Churchill I 83 USSR KV-1/41 82 USSR KV-1S 82 USSR KV-1/42 82 UK Churchill VCS 81 Japan Type 5 Chi-Re 81 USSR KV-1/40 80 USSR KV-2a 80 USSR SU-85 80 USSR SU-122 79 UK Valentine DD 78 USSR Mark IV 78 (L/L Churchill) USSR OT-34 78 USSR Capt Pz IV 78 (captured) USA M4a2/76 Sherman 77 UK Cromwell VII 77 UK Valentine XI 77 USSR M4/76 77 (Lend Lease) UK Sherman Ib CS 75 USSR KV-1/39 75 UK Cromwell IV 74 USA Sherman DD 73 USA M4 105mm 73 USSR Mark VIII 73 (L/L Churchill) Germany JPz-IV/48 73 Germany Pz-IVh 73 USA M4a3/75W Sher 72 USSR T-34/43 72 USSR T-43 72 ("Jumbo" T-34/43) Germany Pz-IVg 72 UK Valentine IX 71 Germany Pz-IVj 71 USA M4a1/76 Sherman 70 USA M4a1 Dozer 70 USA Sherman Flail 70 UK Cromwell VICS 70 UK Sherman III 70 Germany Stg-IIIg 70 Germany Tauchpz-IV 70 USSR T-34/41 69 Japan Type 4 Chi-To 69 USA M4a3 Sherman 68 USA M4a1 Flame 68 UK Cromwell I 68 UK Sherman V 68 Germany Hetzer 68 Germany Stg-IV 68 Germany Pz T-34/43 68 (captured) Germany Pz-IVf2 67 UK Scorpion 66 Italy SMV M41/90 66 Japan Type 38 Ho-Ro 66 USA M4a2 Sherman 65 UK Sherman I 65 USSR T-34/40 65 USSR M4/75a 65 (Lend Lease) Germany Pz T-34/41 65 (captured) Germany Stg-IIIf8 64 USA M4a1 Sherman 62 Germany Flammpz-38 62 USSR M4/75b 61 (Lend Lease) USA M4 Sherman 60 USA M10 Wolverine 60 UK Matilda Frog 60 USSR M-10 60 (Lend Lease) Germany Stg-IIIf 60 Germany StIG-33b 60 Germany Tauchpz-III 60 Germany Ostwind 60 Japan Type1 Ho-Ni III 60 Japan Type 97 Flame 60 USA M3A1 Lee 59 UK Grant 59 USSR M3S/Lee 59 (Lend Lease) Germany Pz-IIIm 59 UK AEC III 58 UK Matilda II 58 UK Valentine V 58 USSR SU-76i 58 (tank destroyer) USSR Mark II 58 (L/L Churchill) USSR Mark III 58 (L/L Churchill) Japan Type 3 Chi-Nu 58 Germany Pz-IIIj(s) 57 UK Valentine II 56 Italy P-26/40 56 Germany Pz-IIIj 55 Japan Type 1 Ho-Ni II 55 Germany Pz-IIIh 54 Germany Flammpz-III 54 UK AEC II 53 Italy SMV M43/105 53 UK Crusader III 52 UK Matilda IIICS 52 UK Crusader AA-1 52 Germany PSW 234/4 52 Germany StuH-42 52 Germany Pz-IIIg 51 Germany MinenRam-III 50 Germany Wirbelwind 50 Japan Type 97 Flail 50 USSR T-28/40 49 USSR T-28/40 49 Germany Marder III(h) 49 Germany Pz-IVf 49 Japan Type 1 Chi-He 49 USA M24 Chaffee 48 UK Crusader IVCS 48 USSR SU-76i(g) 48 (assault gun) Japan Type 97 Dozer 48 UK Crusader AA-2 47 USSR Capt Pz III 47 (captured) Germany Marder II 47 Germany JPz-38 47 Germany Grille-38t 46 Italy M-15/42 46 Italy SMV M43/75 46 Japan Type 97 Special 46 USA M18 Hellcat 45 Germany PSW 234/2 45 UK AEC I 44 UK Crusader II 44 Germany Marder III(M) 44 Germany Pz-IVe 44 Germany Gw-38t 44 Germany LaS 762 43 Japan Shinhoto Chi-Ha 43 USA M19 Duster 42 UK Stuart V 42 UK Crusader I 42 UK Deacon 42 USSR T-50 42 USSR T-35a 42 Germany Pz-IVd 42 Germany Stg-IIIe 42 UK Staghound 41 Germany Pz-38t(e) 41 Japan Type 4 Lt 41 UK Crusader IICS 40 Germany PSW 234/3 40 Germany Stg-IIIb 40 Germany sIG-II 40 Italy M-13/40 40 Japan Type 2 Ka-Mi 40 UK Daimler I 39 UK Stuart VI 39 Germany Pz-IIIe 39 Germany Pz-IVc 39 Germany Flammpz-II 39 UK Staghound CS 38 UK M8 Greyhound 38 UK Crusader ICS 38 UK Staghound AA 38 USSR T-70 38 USSR BT-7M 38 USSR T-28/34 38 Japan Type 91 Heavy 38 USSR SU-57 37 Germany Pz-38t 37 Italy M-11/39 37 Japan Type 97 Chi-Ha 37 UK Stuart I a 36 UK Cruiser I 36 USSR SU-76M 36 USSR OT-134 36 Germany PSW 233 36 Germany sIG-33 36 Germany Flammwg/16 36 Japan Type 95 Special 36 USA M15a1 35 UK Humber IV 35 UK Wasp 35 USSR BT-7 35 Japan Type 1 Ho-Ni I 35 UK M-H III 34 UK Cruiser III 34 UK Locust 34 USSR T-26/39 34 USSR BT-5 34 USSR ZiS-30 34 Germany Pz-35t 34 Japan Type 2 Ho-I 34 Japan Type 98 Ke-Ni 34 USA M5 Stuart 33 UK Cruiser II 33 UK Cruiser IV 33 USSR BT-7a 33 Japan Type 95 Ha-Go 33 Japan Type 89A Chi-Ro 33 USA M8 HMC Scott 32 USSR T-26/33 32 Japan Type 97B Te-Ke 32 Japan Type 3 Lt 32 Japan Type 89B Yi-Go 32 UK M-H IIIv 31 UK Cruiser IICS 31 UK Tetrarch 31 USA M16 30 UK Vickers II med 30 USSR BA-10 30 USSR BT-2M33 30 USSR BT-5a 30 Germany Pz-35R 731 30 USA M3A1 Stuart 29 USA M2 Medium 29 UK Matilda I 29 USSR ZSU-M17 29 UK M-H IIv 28 UK Cruiser IVCS 28 UK Humber AA 28 UK Tetrarch CS 28 USSR BA-6 28 Germany PSW 234/1 28 UK Mk I Mineplough 27 UK M-16 27 Italy SMV L40/47 27 Japan Type 92B Tkt 27 USA M3 Stuart 26 UK Stuart Recce 26 USSR M3L/Stuart 26 (Lend Lease) USSR GAZ-37 26 USSR ZSU-37 26 Germany PSW 222 26 Germany JPz-35R(f) 26 UK Humber SC 25 UK M-17 25 USSR SU-12 25 Germany Pz-IIL 25 Japan Type 89(f) 25 USA M8 Greyhound 24 USA M2A4 24 Japan Type 2592 24 UK Humber II 23 Germany PSW 231-8 23 Germany Pz-IIf 23 Italy L6/40 23 UK Daimler Dingo 22 UK 2pdr Portee 22 USSR T-40b 22 Germany JPz-1b 22 UK Humber LRC 21 UK Mk VI AA 21 USSR T-60 21 Germany PSW 231-6 21 Germany Pz-IIc 21 USSR T-62 20 USSR SU-37 20 UK Mk VI c 19 UK Mk VI b 19 USSR GAZ-4M 19 USA M20 Scout+ 18 USA M2A2 Mae West 18 USSR T-40a 18 Japan Type 92 Osaka 18 Germany Pz-Ib 17 Italy Autoblinda 41 17 USA M1 Combat Car 16 UK M-H IIME 16 Japan Type 91 Sumida 16 Japan Type 97A Te-Ke 16 Japan Type 94 Tkt 15 Germany PSW 221 14 UK Vickers II a 13 USSR BT-2M30 13 Italy L3/33 13 USA M20 Scout 12 USA M1917A1 12 UK Rolls Royce AC 12 USSR BA-20 12 USSR BA-64 12 UK White SC 11 USA M1917 10 USSR T-37a 10



Larry Holt -> (7/6/2000 2:53:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by victorhauser: ... Note that these are ONLY prices for AFVs,.. Germany Maus 250 UK Centurion 3 223 ..
Is this in Euros or dollars? [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] ------------------ An old soldier but not yet a faded one. OK, maybe just a bit faded.



Seth -> (7/6/2000 3:27:00 AM)

Why not throw in the other countries? At least the ones with indigenous designs, like France and Poland. I think you may have missed a few: Italian M 14/41, CV 33 LF, etc. Plenty of food for thought here. Oh, the Flammwagen /16 is a halftrack so you should take it out, unless you mean to include any sort of halftrack that is not a transport unit. In that case, you're probably missing some more. [This message has been edited by Seth (edited 07-05-2000).]



Tombstone -> (7/6/2000 4:15:00 AM)

That's a lot of work there Victor. It reveals a lot. Such as the UK Wolverine being too expensive, and M10's and M4A1's shouldn't cost the SAME, Jackson's seem underpriced. The StuH-42 seems underpriced, and Hellcat's seem a bit underpriced for their ridiculous speed. And like you've been saying for ages, Tigers seem painfully underpriced. Tomo



Tankhead -> (7/6/2000 4:22:00 AM)

Geezz Victor you are a real eager Beaver. Nice work. [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] Tankhead ------------------ Rick Cloutier [email]rcclout@telusplanet.net[/email] Coordinator: Tankhead's SPWAW Resources http://sites.netscape.net/rcclout



Paul Vebber -> (7/6/2000 4:33:00 AM)

Thnaks Victor I will post this over on the OOB list and see if more can be filled in!



O de B -> (7/6/2000 7:22:00 PM)

Also there is the problem of captured Tanks. USSR T-34/43 : 72 German PzKw T-34/43 : 68 When i introduced the captured T-34 in german OOB in Steel 1, i had to price it at one and a half the price of the USSR. First i put it at the same price and the AI picked way too much of them (eg used to have a whole core of them [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/frown.gif[/img], no more tigers or Pz IV) Then i raised it and the AI only picked one platoon from time to time, with a main core of Pz IV and a few tigers. I don't know how SpWaW ai picks up its units, only played scens, not campaigns yet. But in any case the price of captured equipment should be risen to reflect its rarity.



PR^Spanjab -> (7/6/2000 7:34:00 PM)

Hmmmm, Still looks like a Tiger is cheaper than a Firefly which is surely not right? Still, more patient than me! [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img]



Charles22 -> (7/6/2000 10:46:00 PM)

Again, the blasted Firefly is a "medium-class tank", right (the Tiger a heavy)? Though it does show the Nashorn is either way overpriced or the Tiger too cheap. Afterall, in tonnage, the Nashorn is probably pretty light, but it does have the size of a heavy. Despite what class it falls in, it should be cheaper than the Tiger, though an argument could be made contrary to that (though slightly) when you consider that it's gun is actually better than the Tiger's. Actually this points out another thing to me, but it depends on what plays off of what. Definitely the T34/85 shouldn't be more expensive than the Tiger (different class for a start), but also note that the T34/85 is more expensive the the deadly SU-100. The SU-100 I'm quite sure was made in smaller numbers (though we're not considering that, again) and has more armor thickness and larger gun. On the other side of the coin the T34/85 while having less armor "ratings" actually is a larger vehicle, and when considering the difference in the size of the vehicles, it may have more "total" armor, because there's more area to cover. In other words, covering an area the sixe of an inch with 200mm of armor, is less armor than covering two feet with 30mm.



von Curow -> (7/6/2000 11:16:00 PM)

Plus, the T-34/43 and the T-43 (aptly called the Jumbo T-34/43) are both 72 points. Even the AI has noticed the discrepancy, and periodically fields battalions of the "readily available" T-43. Also, I noticed the German Pz-IVg is 72 points, which should make it a similar match to the T34/43 and the T-43. The first maybe, the second, well... no. Makes for interesting reading, victorhauser.



Spunkgibbon -> (7/7/2000 1:31:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by O de B: Also there is the problem of captured Tanks... snippage ... I don't know how SpWaW ai picks up its units, only played scens, not campaigns yet. But in any case the price of captured equipment should be risen to reflect its rarity.
When I first got SPWAW and was getting used to the system before engaging in some PBEM, I started a campaign as British v Germans starting in 1944. As it happened, my part of the Falaise Pocket was defended entirely by T-34s with no native German armour anywhere to be seen. I'd forgotten about that until I read your post, O de B. On the armour cost list: Wow, it's quite something to be able to compare points costs without fiddling about with the encyclopedia. I can't help feeling that a lot of British armour is overpriced. Out of the twenty most expensive units 8 are British, 8 German and only 4 USSR. Even the post-War Centurions are only around the level of the Tiger (or Tiger II in the case of the Centurion MkIII, definitely not the Maus) and yet they are spectacularly more expensive. I think it comes down to the 17 pounder gun (or 20 pounder with the Centurion MkIII) as can be seen if you look at the difference between the Sherman IIC and Sherman IIA. The IIC has a 17 pound gun, IIA has 75mm (IIRC) and 2 more .30 cals yet there's 44 points between them. These are the only differences, everything else is identical. The 17 pounder is a good gun but not as good as any of the German 88mm guns. The Firefly 17 pounder has a higher penetration, lower accuracy and smaller warhead than the Tiger's 88mm main gun. Given the fact that British armour is far less armoured (Sherman IIC and Firefly have around half the armour of a Tiger) and their cost becomes way too high. Granted both the Firefly and Sherman IIC are faster tanks than the Tiger (by 3 and 5 hexes respectively) but I don't think this alone can account for such a huge price difference. The expense of British tanks with 17 pounder main guns makes it very difficult to field anything with the punch to get through German heavy armour especially when they are vulnerable to just about all German AT units (on account of their cake-tin armour). I could be wrong and British tanks are prices correctly but they do seem to be relatively weak compared to their German counterparts.



Alastair Anderson -> (7/8/2000 8:00:00 AM)

I have to agree with Spunkgibbon 100%. Also why are British tanks sometimes costed differently when serving with other armies?? Some corrections have been made since version1, but the firefly costs only 107 points when fighting with the Indian army, 30 less than with the British Army. This surely cant be right. I have not checked, but might this be the case also with US equipment with other armies? If so then it seems to me it should be standardised if the tanks themselves are exactly the same and not modified in any way. Cheers Al



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