RE: WITP2: The Struggle Against China 2011-2018?

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> RE: WITP2: The Struggle Against China 2011-2018?

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RE: WITP2: The Struggle Against China 2011-2018? - 12/8/2005 2:11:35 PM

BossGnome

Posts: 658
Joined: 5/29/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline

I remember hearing somewhere that china planned to build their first carrier fairly soon. But honestly, I think a trade war with the west would cripple her (and america!) America WAS self sufficient, but now with its huge trade deficit, it NEEDS people to give it cheap goods (aka: china), and china NEEDS people to buy its cheap goods. Both countries need each other, and basically, if there ever was a chinese american war, who would benefit most?

RUSSIA

You guys should read Emmanuel Todd: Le D�clin de L'Am�rique (translated into English i think its something like "The downfall of America")
This guy has a pretty original view in that he expounds that in the next 50 years the new superpower might actually be russia. Russia right now is one of the most oil-rich and self sufficient countries in the world. Over 60% of its trade is conducted with former satellites (Ukraine, Khazakhstan, etc), and so if Russia can just grow again to the point where it can exert indirect influence over its past satellites, it could in fact regain a lot of its lost power, especially if china and america are meanwhile busy holding knives at each other's throats...

_____________________________

"Hard pressed on my right; my left is in retreat. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver. Situation excellent. I am attacking."
-Gen. Joffre, before the battle of the Marne

(in reply to durnedwolf)

Post #: 31

RE: WITP2: The Struggle Against China 2011-2018? - 12/8/2005 2:26:46 PM

Ron Saueracker

Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline

If Canada had some spine there is no reason we could not be of some importance. We have an abundance of resources yet we export them like third world countries do. Retarded.

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Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to BossGnome)

Post #: 32

RE: WITP2: The Struggle Against China 2011-2018? - 12/8/2005 7:13:42 PM

demonterico

Posts: 292
Joined: 10/16/2002
From: Seattle WA
Status: offline

What if scenarios based on hypothetical possibilities, no problem. Great potential for fun.

A real US war with China, what would be the point? An American invasion of the Chinese mainland is highly unlikely. A Chinese defeat of the US Navy is also highly unlikely, at least the way things stand at present.

This does not even consider the nuclear deterrents. I have no doubt that the US has the nuclear ability to completely eliminate China. What I don't know is the ability of China to respond to such an attack.

There are two linked issues to consider when the future possibility of war is being contemplated; energy and economics. War is hugely expensive, a massive waste of resources, and certainly not a cost effective way to resolve political differences. Niether the US or China can afford such a conflict. For the modern world, energy is as critical as water to the survival of a society. At this point in time energy = oil. Currently the nation that controls the oil, controls the fate of man. There, in a nut shell, is the reason for US war in Iraq.

The age of opposing battle lines drawn across continents is over. Warfare of this type is follwing the battleship into the history books. Ho Chi Minh and the Viet Cong, Osama bin Laden and Alcaida are showing us the look of future wars.

_____________________________

The world has never seen a more impressive demonstration of the influence of sea power upon history. Those far distant, storm-beaten ships, upon which the Grand Army never looked, stood between it and the dominion of the world. -- Alfred Thayer Mahan

(in reply to durnedwolf)

Post #: 33

RE: WITP2: The Struggle Against China 2011-2018? - 12/8/2005 7:51:34 PM

rtrapasso

Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline

quote:

I remember hearing somewhere that china planned to build their first carrier fairly soon.

Actually, i had read (or heard) they bought a carrier from Russia (that was "demil-ed") that was supposed to be made into a floating hotel-casino, but they have proceeded to fix her up for sea duty and try to get her to work as a carrier again.

(in reply to BossGnome)

Post #: 34

RE: WITP2: The Struggle Against China 2011-2018? - 12/8/2005 9:23:28 PM

niceguy2005

Posts: 12523
Joined: 7/4/2005
From: Super secret hidden base
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

If Canada had some spine there is no reason we could not be of some importance. We have an abundance of resources yet we export them like third world countries do. Retarded.

Canada is one of the finest, most ethical countries in the world, IMO. Just because it doesn't wish to exploit all its resources immediately, does not make it weak. Just because it doesn't aspire to be the most politically influencial (or oppressive) forces also does not make it weak. Yet it does maintain one of the highest standards of living in the world, maintains its own unique culture and has yet to be the victim of a terrorist attack. At times, I think the U.S. could learn something from its northern brother.

(in reply to Ron Saueracker)

Post #: 35

RE: WITP2: The Struggle Against China 2011-2018? - 12/8/2005 11:04:33 PM

dtravel

Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

If Canada had some spine there is no reason we could not be of some importance. We have an abundance of resources yet we export them like third world countries do. Retarded.

To be honest, I think that may have more to do with Canada's population (or relative lack thereof) compared to her size. A quick Google check shows that the US state of California has about the same population as your entire country. You guys need to breed faster Bud!

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.

(in reply to Ron Saueracker)

Post #: 36

RE: WITP2: The Struggle Against China 2011-2018? - 12/8/2005 11:07:25 PM

CobraAus

Posts: 2322
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Geelong Australia
Status: offline

quote:

Whoooa. This looks like something I could get into. Thanks for the link

guess who's is going to release Harpoon Classic 2005 Commander's Edition (HCCE)

fall 2005 -- Matrix

Cobra Aus

(in reply to Cpt.Buckmaster)

Post #: 37

RE: WITP2: The Struggle Against China 2011-2018? - 12/8/2005 11:14:35 PM

Rob322

Posts: 578
Joined: 8/16/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

I remember hearing somewhere that china planned to build their first carrier fairly soon.

Actually, i had read (or heard) they bought a carrier from Russia (that was "demil-ed") that was supposed to be made into a floating hotel-casino, but they have proceeded to fix her up for sea duty and try to get her to work as a carrier again.

Yeah but it was only a Kiev which operationally speaking wasn't really much of a carrier with half the "flight deck" taken up by missile launchers and a little leftover room for a few of those crappy VTOL planes the USSR used. Wouldn't have probably been much of a fuss in a head to head matchup with a US CVBG.

(in reply to rtrapasso)

Post #: 38

RE: WITP2: The Struggle Against China 2011-2018? - 12/8/2005 11:25:17 PM

rtrapasso

Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob322

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

I remember hearing somewhere that china planned to build their first carrier fairly soon.

Actually, i had read (or heard) they bought a carrier from Russia (that was "demil-ed") that was supposed to be made into a floating hotel-casino, but they have proceeded to fix her up for sea duty and try to get her to work as a carrier again.

Yeah but it was only a Kiev which operationally speaking wasn't really much of a carrier with half the "flight deck" taken up by missile launchers and a little leftover room for a few of those crappy VTOL planes the USSR used. Wouldn't have probably been much of a fuss in a head to head matchup with a US CVBG.

Don't think the Russians were too happy, but then again, maybe turnabout is fair play. The US gave the Russians many megabucks to decommission the Typhoon SSBNs. They took the money and used it to repair and operate them instead - with their missiles still programmed for US targets. I don't know if/when the US stopped this idiocy.

(in reply to Rob322)

Post #: 39

RE: WITP2: The Struggle Against China 2011-2018? - 12/8/2005 11:30:30 PM

Rob322

Posts: 578
Joined: 8/16/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob322

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

I remember hearing somewhere that china planned to build their first carrier fairly soon.

Actually, i had read (or heard) they bought a carrier from Russia (that was "demil-ed") that was supposed to be made into a floating hotel-casino, but they have proceeded to fix her up for sea duty and try to get her to work as a carrier again.

Yeah but it was only a Kiev which operationally speaking wasn't really much of a carrier with half the "flight deck" taken up by missile launchers and a little leftover room for a few of those crappy VTOL planes the USSR used. Wouldn't have probably been much of a fuss in a head to head matchup with a US CVBG.

Don't think the Russians were too happy, but then again, maybe turnabout is fair play. The US gave the Russians many megabucks to decommission the Typhoon SSBNs. They took the money and used it to repair and operate them instead - with their missiles still programmed for US targets. I don't know if/when the US stopped this idiocy.

At least for awhile. From what I've read, most Typhoons spend time in the yard waiting to be scrapped although they still run their Delta IV's in and out. As for being targeted on the US, didn't we sign a treaty stating this wouldn't be so? It was always sort of a silly treaty anyhow, both sides could always re-target the missiles if they wanted/needed to rather rapidly. I guess it was just in case someone turned a key the wrong direction that millions wouldn't die.

(in reply to rtrapasso)

Post #: 40

RE: WITP2: The Struggle Against China 2011-2018? - 12/8/2005 11:43:43 PM

rtrapasso

Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline

quote:

At least for awhile. From what I've read, most Typhoons spend time in the yard waiting to be scrapped although they still run their Delta IV's in and out. As for being targeted on the US, didn't we sign a treaty stating this wouldn't be so? It was always sort of a silly treaty anyhow, both sides could always re-target the missiles if they wanted/needed to rather rapidly. I guess it was just in case someone turned a key the wrong direction that millions wouldn't die.

I think we did sign a treaty, but this aid was given before the treaty was signed.

(in reply to Rob322)

Post #: 41

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