Am I the only one?

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Am I the only one?

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Am I the only one? - 12/28/2005 5:06:58 AM

Redd

Posts: 203
Joined: 7/22/2005
From: Livermore,CA.
Status: offline

When I first read through the manuel to UV, I was immediately struck by the rule whereby damaged ships automatically seperate and go their own way. Where the hell did that come from? I thought that the idea of scuttling a ship was to get the crew (supposedly the important part) off of the ship. That's kind of hard when the rest of the taskforce sails off blowin' rasberries, thumbing their noses and saying " Sucks to be you!"

.

A month or two ago there was a thread where someone was complaining about the fact that they felt that their IJN carriers were sinking too easily. Someone else replied by posting historical accounts describing the sinkings of said carriers and the attempts at damage control. At no time were those stricken ships abandoned by their fellow sailors.

I am by no means a historian by trade, but I have been interested in military history since I checked out my first library book in the third or fourth grade (on Guadalcanal of course). I have never read about a ship being abandoned without rescuing the crew and scuttling the ship. I've read much complaining about about "gameyness" in this forum, but this is built right into the code.

The way I see it, Witp devides the day into a "night" impulse and then an "AM" impulse followed by a "PM" impulse. The amount of daylight on any given day for any given location varies over the course of the year, as well as by lattitude and weather. For game purposes I assume that the turn starts at or about 1800 hours. The night pulse lasts untill roughly 0600, the AM untill 1200, and the PM untill 1800 hours.

Witp lets you make decisions down to the level of TF commander. It seems to make sense to me that as that commander, after along day of strike and counterstrike,bombs falling, men dying, right around the end of the day (1800 hours) would be the time that I would be making the hard decisions about scuttling a ship. Why does the program strip my damaged ships and leave them spread out based on speed to be picked off individually?

In my mind this pretty much proves weather Witp was meant to be a game or a simulation. If it was meant to be a simulation this rule would not be in existense. Yet in all of the posts that i have read, all of the AAR's that I have followed, all of the bitching about this rule or that change, I have never once seen anyone mention this aspect of the game.

Am I the only one that sees a problem here?

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RE: Am I the only one? - 12/28/2005 5:19:59 AM

Admiral DadMan

Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
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Historically, most ships that were damaged were left behind by the rest of the TF, while the undamaged ships got the hell out of Dodge.

The Escort TF was added to WitP to allow the Player to put ships into it so that damaged ships would not split off and could be escorted, i.e. a Carrier with heavy damage could have multiple DDs assigned to the TF to escort it through sub-infested waters.

Look at the Battle of Midway:

Akagi, Kaga, and Soryu are all set on fire by dive bombers. Each had a DD standing by to assist with fire fighting while the rest of the First Mobile Force (centered around the lone Hiryu) sped off to continue the battle.

Yorktown was left to drift on the June 4-5 with a lone DD to guard her until salvage ops were started on 6 June.

< Message edited by Admiral DadMan -- 12/28/2005 5:23:40 AM >

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RE: Am I the only one? - 12/28/2005 5:24:39 AM

pasternakski

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Redd

When I first read through the manuel to UV, I was immediately struck by the rule whereby damaged ships automatically seperate and go their own way. Where the hell did that come from?

The actual dynamic is that a severely damaged ship is detached from the task force with escorts in order to attempt to get back to port (they don't just "go their own way"). This is by no means unrealistic (think, for example, of what happened with the Yorktown at Midway). You cannot burden a TF with crippled ships, so you detach them.

I think the game handles this quite well.

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Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

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RE: Am I the only one? - 12/28/2005 6:10:52 AM

rogueusmc

Posts: 4583
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: Texas...what country are YOU from?
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And they do tack a DD for escort duty.

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RE: Am I the only one? - 12/28/2005 7:04:14 AM

Redd

Posts: 203
Joined: 7/22/2005
From: Livermore,CA.
Status: offline

Admiral Dadman
Pasternaksi

I totally get what you guys are saying. Ships were left behind with escorts in time of need. If you're running 2 or 3 day turns there has to be some mechanism to move everybody along. But as far as I can tell nobody plays the game like that. It just seems to me that the chances of getting nailed so early in the morning that you can help everybody who needs it, assess the situation, formulate a reaction,and issue orders in time to shove off at 1200 hours in time for your PM move are pretty slim. IMHO if we're already down to this level of command controll then I should be making this decision at 1800 hrs instead of the computer making it at 1200 hrs.

I know that this won't change. Because of the multi day option it is impossible to change.I guess that I've had the "you never leave your people behind" idea drilled into me so hard that watching even one ship get seperated by this rule and then get shredded due to lack of CAP makes me feel like one rat bastard of a CO.

Still love the game though

(in reply to pasternakski)

Post #: 5

RE: Am I the only one? - 12/28/2005 7:29:55 AM

Admiral DadMan

Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
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I'd rather see my burning hulk (that was going to sink anyway) get pounded again, saving my other ships to fight again.

_____________________________

Scenario 127: "Scraps of Paper"
(\../)
(O.o)
(> <)

CVB Langley:

(in reply to Redd)

Post #: 6