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RE: The Thread!!! - 5/14/2006 6:45:15 AM   
dtravel


Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso


quote:

ORIGINAL: dtravel


quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: dtravel

Driven crazy by statistics tithe.


Gotta love those spreadsheets...


*glare* Just for that, I'm no longer telling you anything I find out.


ah, are we crunching THOSE numbers? i thought maybe you were doing something for work or a course or some such...


More like realizing that I need a huge freaking boatload more numbers to have any chance of figuring out any of it. Too many factors that supposidly affect repairs and random die rolls playing WAY too big a role for it to be "only" complex.


_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.


(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 9451
RE: The Thread!!! - 5/14/2006 6:52:19 AM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline 		Ode to Wake Island Redux:

Hope’s dashed to the floor
And shattered Speedy's dreams
Invading Wake Island
Can make a player scream

(bridge 1)
That walk in the park can become a bad dream
Penguins are laughing and mocking my schemes
This is the only escape from it all:
Imitate the Leopard seal mating call!

(chorus)
Oh, Wake Island is waiting
Waiting for Speedy
Oh, Wake Island is waiting
Waiting for Speedy
Oh, Wake Island is waiting
Waiting for Speedy
(Waiting for Speedy)
Oh, Wake Island is waiting

We don't need a plan
We've got nerves of steel
Speedy's troops retreated
Tell us what’s deal.

(bridge 2)
You’re bombing, you’re shelling, a freefire spree
I never want this to happen to me
Don't try invading, you're wasting your time
Wake Island’s waters are heavily mined!

Oh, Wake Island is waiting
Waiting for Speedy
Oh, Wake Island is waiting
Waiting for Speedy
Oh, Wake Island is waiting
Waiting for Speedy
(Waiting for Speedy)
Oh, Wake Island is waiting

That walk in the park can become a bad dream
Penguins are shooting and firing at me
This is the only escape from it all:
Bombing those penguins until they fall.


< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 5/14/2006 2:35:45 PM >

(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 9452
RE: The Thread!!! - 5/14/2006 7:44:07 AM   
RUPD3658


Posts: 6922
Joined: 8/28/2002
From: East Brunswick, NJ
Status: offline 		Early morning working overtime tithe....

_____________________________

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits"- Darwin Awards 2003

"No plan survives contact with the enemy." - Field Marshall Helmuth von Moltke


(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 9453
RE: The Thread!!! - 5/14/2006 8:27:33 AM   
fabertong


Posts: 4546
Joined: 2/25/2004
From: Bristol, England, U.K.
Status: offline 		Sunday Morning off to work tithe.......and it looks to be a beautiful day. Alas.

(in reply to RUPD3658)
Post #: 9454
RE: The Thread!!! - 5/14/2006 10:48:11 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Sunday Morning Tithe... Just have to finish that damn Business Law paper...

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to fabertong)
Post #: 9455
RE: The Thread!!! - 5/14/2006 2:25:04 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fabertong

Sunday Morning off to work tithe.......and it looks to be a beautiful day. Alas.


early Sunday morning gotten out of bed by the Schnauzers tithe...

Working on Sunday is the pits!! Is this some sort of big project consuming all your time??

(in reply to fabertong)
Post #: 9456
RE: The Thread!!! - 5/14/2006 5:39:26 PM   
niceguy2005


Posts: 12523
Joined: 7/4/2005
From: Super secret hidden base
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Sunday Morning Tithe... Just have to finish that damn Business Law paper...

Hey T, in my biz law class they combined law and ethics...as if one had anything to do with the other. It was the only class that I could really say was largely a waste of my time in my program.

_____________________________


Artwork graciously provided by Dixie

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 9457
RE: The Thread!!! - 5/14/2006 5:46:16 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Waste of time for me as well, but that's mainly because it's been the FOURTH time I've studied it...

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to niceguy2005)
Post #: 9458
RE: The Thread!!! - 5/14/2006 6:01:52 PM   
niceguy2005


Posts: 12523
Joined: 7/4/2005
From: Super secret hidden base
Status: offline 		Fourth biz law class. Were you a lawyer in a former life?

The problem with our class was that it didn't delve into either law or ethics on any substantial level. All of my other "intro" biz level courses (accounting, finance, etc.) I thought were very good, but not that one. They should have made ethics its own class and ratcheted up the level to which they delved into biz law. From what I saw, a LOT of the students could use some formal ethics training. Of course, that was pre-Enron, post-Enron I think the school did overhaul its ethics training.

_____________________________


Artwork graciously provided by Dixie

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 9459
RE: The Thread!!! - 5/14/2006 6:03:33 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Had law in high school, went to "real" law school for a year (big mistake; it was straight out of high school), then had it as part of the first degree I took, and am now having it again.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to niceguy2005)
Post #: 9460
RE: The Thread!!! - 5/14/2006 6:03:44 PM   
demonterico


Posts: 292
Joined: 10/16/2002
From: Seattle WA
Status: offline 		D@mn!! The game is not here this morning.

_____________________________

The world has never seen a more impressive demonstration of the influence of sea power upon history. Those far distant, storm-beaten ships, upon which the Grand Army never looked, stood between it and the dominion of the world. -- Alfred Thayer Mahan

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 9461
RE: The Thread!!! - 5/14/2006 6:39:02 PM   
scott64


Posts: 4019
Joined: 9/12/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		Took business law in college, big whopping 2000 page book.

_____________________________

Lucky for you, tonight it's just me


Any ship can be a minesweeper..once !! :)

http://suspenseandmystery.blogspot.com/

(in reply to demonterico)
Post #: 9462
RE: The Thread!!! - 5/14/2006 10:17:00 PM   
dtravel


Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline 		Lazy sunday tithe. *runs away quickly before he can be beaten up by those having to work*

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.


(in reply to scott64)
Post #: 9463
RE: The Thread!!! - 5/14/2006 11:44:32 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Sprays a few minigun bullets in dtravel's general direction...

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to dtravel)
Post #: 9464
RE: The Thread!!! - 5/15/2006 12:51:01 AM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline 		Just finished Shattered Sword- interesting stuff!

Sort of firms up notions i had semi-formulated, and punctures a lot of myths...

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 9465
RE: The Thread!!! - 5/15/2006 1:51:55 AM   
dtravel


Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline 		"Time to unpimp the auto. *pant pant*"

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.


(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 9466
RE: The Thread!!! - 5/15/2006 1:54:29 AM   
dtravel


Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Sprays a few minigun bullets in dtravel's general direction...


*shields himself with his ship repair spreadsheets. nothing can penetrate those*

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.


(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 9467
RE: The Thread!!! - 5/15/2006 5:11:33 AM   
niceguy2005


Posts: 12523
Joined: 7/4/2005
From: Super secret hidden base
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

Just finished Shattered Sword- interesting stuff!

Sort of firms up notions i had semi-formulated, and punctures a lot of myths...

Care to share what that notion is and what the myths are...maybe we can actually talk about something related to WitP.

_____________________________


Artwork graciously provided by Dixie

(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 9468
RE: The Thread!!! - 5/15/2006 5:28:55 AM   
Mynok


Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline
Bite thy tongue, brother! This is a WiTP-free zone.

(in reply to niceguy2005)
Post #: 9469
RE: The Thread!!! - 5/15/2006 5:50:29 AM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


Bite thy tongue, brother! This is a WiTP-free zone.


Now, now, with Mr. Frag no longer our protecting moderator, we must take on some protective coloration on occasion...

(in reply to Mynok)
Post #: 9470
RE: The Thread!!! - 5/15/2006 5:59:46 AM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005


quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

Just finished Shattered Sword- interesting stuff!

Sort of firms up notions i had semi-formulated, and punctures a lot of myths...

Care to share what that notion is and what the myths are...maybe we can actually talk about something related to WitP.


Myths - well OK, there are several common ones associated with the battle, which seemed to have arisen mainly from one guy (Fuchida) who had an agenda when he published his book that intorduced the myths to the English-speaking world:
1. The American triumphed over overwhelming odds;
2. Adm. Yamamota devised the Aleutian campaign as a diversion to lure the Americans fleet out of Pearl Harbor;
3. During the transit to Midway, Adm. Yamamota had important intel information from Adm. Nagumo (commander of the K.B.);
4. Had the IJN implemented a 2-phase search pattern, they would have found the US fleet in time to defeat them;
5. The late launch of Tone scout plane #4 doomed Adm. Nagumo to defeat;
6. Had Admiral Nagumo not rearmed his planes with land-attack weapons, he would have been in a position to attack the US fleet when it was discovered;
7. The sacrifice of Torpedo 8 was not in vain, since it brought the CAP down to sea level, thereby allowing the divebombers to attack without fighter opposition;
8. The IJN elite carrier aviators were all but wiped out in the battle.

(in reply to niceguy2005)
Post #: 9471
RE: The Thread!!! - 5/15/2006 6:03:05 AM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline 		Whew... anyway, the authors carefully explored all these myths and punctured them all.

Fuchida published his work as soon as censorship was lifted in Japan, apparently to regain some respect for the IJN (and for himself). His theory was (in short): "oh, it was a miracle we were defeated, brought on by the Gods of War, so we really weren't to blame."

(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 9472
RE: The Thread!!! - 5/15/2006 6:40:51 AM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline 		Oh yeah, the other "myth", not mentioned by the authors, but one in my mind - the bombardment of Midway, which (sort of) justified all the nuclear bombardments in WITP (where IJN ships in particular will run up, smash your airbase, run away) NEVER TOOK PLACE!!!

It was ordered, but aborted... Only bombardment was an IJN sub that fired 6 shells "mainly into the lagoon".

Does ANYONE have any example of IJN major fleet units (say DD or above) conducting bombardment attacks when NOT involved in supporting troops (ie... did the IJN ever do a bombardment attack when Japanese troops were not present?)

(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 9473
RE: The Thread!!! - 5/15/2006 6:42:22 AM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline 		Also: did the IJN ever use air power to support a landing with tactical air support?

(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 9474
RE: The Thread!!! - 5/15/2006 7:39:19 AM   
niceguy2005


Posts: 12523
Joined: 7/4/2005
From: Super secret hidden base
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

Also: did the IJN ever use air power to support a landing with tactical air support?

Thanks Robert, sounds like a good read.

_____________________________


Artwork graciously provided by Dixie

(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 9475
RE: The Thread!!! - 5/15/2006 8:05:29 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Monday Morning Tithe...

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to niceguy2005)
Post #: 9476
RE: The Thread!!! - 5/15/2006 9:17:36 AM   
dtravel


Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

Myths - well OK, there are several common ones associated with the battle, which seemed to have arisen mainly from one guy (Fuchida) who had an agenda when he published his book that intorduced the myths to the English-speaking world:

2. Adm. Yamamota devised the Aleutian campaign as a diversion to lure the Americans fleet out of Pearl Harbor;


Really? Then what was the Aleutian campaign?

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.


(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 9477
RE: The Thread!!! - 5/15/2006 2:16:45 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dtravel


quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

Myths - well OK, there are several common ones associated with the battle, which seemed to have arisen mainly from one guy (Fuchida) who had an agenda when he published his book that intorduced the myths to the English-speaking world:

2. Adm. Yamamota devised the Aleutian campaign as a diversion to lure the Americans fleet out of Pearl Harbor;


Really? Then what was the Aleutian campaign?


it was a plan forced on Yamamoto by Adm. Nagano, Head of the Navy, who was (supposedly) Adm. Yamamoto's superior. The Navy also forced carrier support of the Port Moresby operation, leading to the Battle of Coral Sea. The unavailability of 2 fleet carriers (and a CVL) was a contributing factor to the IJN defeat at Midway.

(in reply to dtravel)
Post #: 9478
RE: The Thread!!! - 5/15/2006 2:17:42 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline 		Early Morning Tithe!!

(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 9479
RE: The Thread!!! - 5/15/2006 3:29:24 PM   
RUPD3658


Posts: 6922
Joined: 8/28/2002
From: East Brunswick, NJ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

in my biz law class they combined law and ethics...


Is it wrong to cheat on this exam?


_____________________________

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits"- Darwin Awards 2003

"No plan survives contact with the enemy." - Field Marshall Helmuth von Moltke


(in reply to niceguy2005)
Post #: 9480
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