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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 6/29/2006 10:16:50 PM   
Speedysteve

 

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As I say I do have a 'liking' for the Nazgul. Am I right in thinking that there is something about the Witchking in former times?

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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 6/29/2006 10:19:21 PM   
fabertong


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

Guys regarding LoTR - what are The Silmarillion and Forgotten Tales like? Worth a read?

Still posting?....Where's my turn.......The silmarillion is like reading research material for LOTR...but is fun, and you'll figure out what all those songs are about....not read the other.......now stop posting.....

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Post #: 13052
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 6/29/2006 10:20:27 PM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

Interesting guys. Thanks.

A work colleague aired similar views. He was saying it was great to 'fill in the world of Middle Earth' but that they were not as readable as LoTR and there were many many names etc.

Knowing me I will buy them. The main problem in my life is time. I have 8 books to read and about 7 computer games to play and finish (excluding PBEM WW2 games!) = I may finish all of these in about 25 years time



Been there, done that - and no, you won't finish in 25 years as 129 other books and 183 other computer games will intervene...

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Post #: 13053
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 6/29/2006 10:22:50 PM   
Terminus


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YOU FOOL!!! YOU WILL NEVER FINISH!!! THE WORK IS FOREVER!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!

(now send me a turn...)

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Post #: 13054
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 6/29/2006 10:27:22 PM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

YOU FOOL!!! YOU WILL NEVER FINISH!!! THE WORK IS FOREVER!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!

(now send me a turn...)



Me??

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Post #: 13055
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 6/29/2006 10:31:45 PM   
Terminus


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No, Speedy... I don't think we're playing any sort of game, are we?

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Post #: 13056
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 6/29/2006 10:31:53 PM   
Mynok


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

As I say I do have a 'liking' for the Nazgul. Am I right in thinking that there is something about the Witchking in former times?


Actually there is not much about the ringwraiths in the Silmarillion. Been a while since I read it, but the primary (and interesting) history is about the First Age and the trials of the Noldor. I'm sure there is a chronicle of the wars between Angmar and Arnor in which the witch king would be mentioned. It would technically be in the Akallabeth, which is the last section of the book and deals with the rise and fall of Numenor.

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Post #: 13057
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 6/29/2006 10:35:28 PM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

No, Speedy... I don't think we're playing any sort of game, are we?



Not last time i looked!! i could be having a brain fart and forgotten...


Nah - i'm having hard enough time between RL and one WITP game (and unfortunately RL is winning... )

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Post #: 13058
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 6/29/2006 10:38:16 PM   
niceguy2005


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I agree with Faber, the Sillmarilion reads mostly like research material. I don't know if Tolkien really ever intended to finish it and publish it. If your a diehard LOTR fan it will probably still be enjoyable.

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Post #: 13059
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 6/29/2006 10:39:13 PM   
Terminus


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I like parts of it, especially the tale of Turin Turambar...

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Post #: 13060
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 6/29/2006 10:43:21 PM   
rtrapasso


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Tolkien had huge tie-ins to Norse mythology.

A friend of mine picked up a used paperback of this, and someone had heavily highlighted it: on virtually every page was a name from LOTR.

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Post #: 13061
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 6/29/2006 10:48:47 PM   
Mike Solli


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


For the Major: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1176752

Just in case you haven't seen it and could assist.




He apparently found a way there. I live about 10 miles from Origins and about 100 or so from Mogami. Mogami and I have been talking.

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Post #: 13062
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 6/29/2006 10:51:38 PM   
mdiehl

 

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quote:

I agree with Faber, the Sillmarilion reads mostly like research material. I don't know if Tolkien really ever intended to finish it and publish it. If your a diehard LOTR fan it will probably still be enjoyable.


I'd say it varies. Parts of it are quite polished, while other parts are pretty rough. Akellabeth (of Numenor and the 2nd Age) is scarcely more than a well-developed outline that deals with how Sauron dragged down the houses of men in westernesse. And the Tale of Turin Turambar is complete, but kind of ragged and ponderous (though still a good read).

Tolkien *intended* for the Silmarillion to be the next published work after The Hobbit because he wanted to write about the mythical noble past to which he briefly alluded in The Hobbit. (I'm just recaping what's in the Simarillion liner notes). But the publishers wanted him to write about more hobbits, so LotR was born -- it was a story that met the publisher's demand to have more hobbits while meeting part of Tolkien's desire to expand about that high mythical past.

I'd say that Silmarillion is a must read if you really enjoyed LotR and if you do not mind highfalutin prose, extensive tracts of elvish and translated ballads and so forth. It also definitely fills in some details for the curious, like "Why is Galadarial regarded as such a Force in Middle Earth?" "Where did the palantir and the rings come from?" What does "The Ring of Barahir" (from the movie) have to do with Aragorn, etc.

It also makes some of the elves conduct in LotR seem like a real copout. Without spoiling the story, I think it's fair to say that everything in LotR is blowback from a vengeance oath sworn by a bunch of elves ten thousand years before LotR occurs.

It's definitely a good read, but I'd only recommend it to someone who has read LotR several times and finds themself asking more questions rather than being content with the material as is.

< Message edited by mdiehl -- 6/29/2006 10:55:30 PM >


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Didn't we have this conversation already?

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Post #: 13063
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 6/29/2006 10:55:23 PM   
Speedysteve

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fabertong


quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

Guys regarding LoTR - what are The Silmarillion and Forgotten Tales like? Worth a read?

Still posting?....Where's my turn.......The silmarillion is like reading research material for LOTR...but is fun, and you'll figure out what all those songs are about....not read the other.......now stop posting.....


Pffft.

Your turn was sent back at 7.54PM.

T is next and then it's time to finish's 1st turn in Nik's game.

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Post #: 13064
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 6/29/2006 10:56:06 PM   
Speedysteve

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

No, Speedy... I don't think we're playing any sort of game, are we?



LOL. I think you both should know this

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Post #: 13065
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 6/29/2006 10:57:04 PM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

No, Speedy... I don't think we're playing any sort of game, are we?



LOL. I think you both should know this



Yeah - you'd think...

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Post #: 13066
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 6/29/2006 10:57:55 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
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From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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AAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Post #: 13067
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 6/29/2006 10:58:48 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
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Thanks for all the comments all. Most helpful. As I said before I will be getting both books since I liked LoTR very much and have many unanswered questions.

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Post #: 13068
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 6/29/2006 10:58:57 PM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

AAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!





uh oh - sounds like a carrier sinking...

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Post #: 13069
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 6/29/2006 10:59:15 PM   
Speedysteve

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso


quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

No, Speedy... I don't think we're playing any sort of game, are we?



LOL. I think you both should know this



Yeah - you'd think...


It is you and T we're talking about tho


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Post #: 13070
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 6/29/2006 11:00:37 PM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

AAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!





So - what's going on???

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Post #: 13071
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 6/29/2006 11:01:05 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy


quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso


quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

No, Speedy... I don't think we're playing any sort of game, are we?



LOL. I think you both should know this



Yeah - you'd think...


It is you and T we're talking about tho



true...

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Post #: 13072
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 6/29/2006 11:01:25 PM   
Mike Solli


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I absolutely HATE it when some $$%&&#%%& sends me a powerpoint slide full of numbers that he wants me to update and instead of having a spreadsheet embedded in the slide, it's saved as a picture.

On top of that, the percentages are all wrong so I don't know what they want.

And they need it today of course.

*Quietly fuming he staggers off to his computer to figure out another mess....*

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Post #: 13073
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 6/29/2006 11:03:05 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

I absolutely HATE it when some $$%&&#%%& sends me a powerpoint slide full of numbers that he wants me to update and instead of having a spreadsheet embedded in the slide, it's saved as a picture.

On top of that, the percentages are all wrong so I don't know what they want.

And they need it today of course.

*Quietly fuming he staggers off to his computer to figure out another mess....*



Can you not get them to send a spreadsheet instead?

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Post #: 13074
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 6/29/2006 11:04:08 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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Uh, no. It came from somewhere other than the state I currently reside in......

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Post #: 13075
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 6/29/2006 11:04:25 PM   
niceguy2005


Posts: 12523
Joined: 7/4/2005
From: Super secret hidden base
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mdiehl

quote:

I agree with Faber, the Sillmarilion reads mostly like research material. I don't know if Tolkien really ever intended to finish it and publish it. If your a diehard LOTR fan it will probably still be enjoyable.


I'd say it varies. Parts of it are quite polished, while other parts are pretty rough. Akellabeth (of Numenor and the 2nd Age) is scarcely more than a well-developed outline that deals with how Sauron dragged down the houses of men in westernesse. And the Tale of Turin Turambar is complete, but kind of ragged and ponderous (though still a good read).

Tolkien *intended* for the Silmarillion to be the next published work after The Hobbit because he wanted to write about the mythical noble past to which he briefly alluded in The Hobbit. (I'm just recaping what's in the Simarillion liner notes). But the publishers wanted him to write about more hobbits, so LotR was born -- it was a story that met the publisher's demand to have more hobbits while meeting part of Tolkien's desire to expand about that high mythical past.

I'd say that Silmarillion is a must read if you really enjoyed LotR and if you do not mind highfalutin prose, extensive tracts of elvish and translated ballads and so forth. It also definitely fills in some details for the curious, like "Why is Galadarial regarded as such a Force in Middle Earth?" "Where did the palantir and the rings come from?" What does "The Ring of Barahir" (from the movie) have to do with Aragorn, etc.

It also makes some of the elves conduct in LotR seem like a real copout. Without spoiling the story, I think it's fair to say that everything in LotR is blowback from a vengeance oath sworn by a bunch of elves ten thousand years before LotR occurs.

It's definitely a good read, but I'd only recommend it to someone who has read LotR several times and finds themself asking more questions rather than being content with the material as is.

Maybe something JRR wrote or said contradicts this, but I still say it reads like research. There are some well polished parts, but that's not unsual for a writers notes. He may have had an interest into developing it into a polished work, but it was never got anywhere near that stage.

Mdiehl's statement about it being for those who read LOTR, loved it, and want to know much more than was answered in the triology is right on. It's definitely for the hardcore fan.

Personally, I loved LOTR, read it the first time when I was 12 and it along with Cronicles of Narnia started a life long love of reading for me. Unlike CoN, I still reread the LOTR every 5 or so years. I think I'm on my 5th reading. Sillmarilion, left me wanting though. It didn't have the same magic.

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Post #: 13076
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 6/29/2006 11:04:25 PM   
Mike Solli


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......if you know what I mean.....

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Post #: 13077
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 6/29/2006 11:05:06 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Uh, no. It came from somewhere other than the state I currently reside in......



this sounds like code... i guess e-mail is right out?

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Post #: 13078
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 6/29/2006 11:09:03 PM   
Mike Solli


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Actually I don't know who exactly sent it. I know the organization, but not the individual. My boss got it and sent it to me to update. *Sigh*

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Post #: 13079
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 6/29/2006 11:09:42 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Actually I don't know who exactly sent it. I know the organization, but not the individual. My boss got it and sent it to me to update. *Sigh*



ooops!

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Post #: 13080
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