Artillery issues

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [American Civil War] >> John Tiller's Battleground Series >> Artillery issues

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Artillery issues - 1/15/2006 12:20:00 PM

Rhetor

Posts: 117
Joined: 1/31/2005
From: Gdansk, Poland
Status: offline

Dear MatrixGames

I hope that while remaking the Battleground series you will address the artillery issue. In the original BG series, an artillery battery can be unlimbered at the beginning of the game, and fire away as long as there is ammo left in the general pool. In reality, however, batteries had to be replaced, in order to replenish ammunition, and to give the crews some rest (operating muzzle-loading guns was quite a tiresome job).

Post #: 1

RE: Artillery issues - 1/15/2006 1:36:24 PM

HMSWarspite

Posts: 1401
Joined: 4/13/2002
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline

Yes, individual ammo for art units (even if done on the probability basis like other units) would be good (although dedicated ammo count, and ammo limbers for replenishment would be nicer!)

Also, I was never happy with the Napoleonic battles artillery - when approached by infantry or cavalry, the battery has to limber up (forgoing fire) and leg it, or be meleed in place, and (being unable to move when deployed) gets wiped out on any retreat result. I want a fuller range of possibilties, with crew eliminated, retreated (as a suitable strength crew counter), with an option they spiked the guns, or not, and also partial gun losses (spiked between 0 and all of the guns). Non artillery units 'holding' guns, but unabe to crew them should be able to spike them if retreated (or on command), but only at low probability (rarely had the spikes, or anything that could be used as such)

Without the above, on enclosed battle areas. you often have the choice between using art units and losing them, or not using them effectively at all, due to lack of suitable screened firing positions. Particularly noticable at Waterloo, in the centre, or Allied left. Far less of a problem at Ligny or Borodino IMHO

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(in reply to Rhetor)

Post #: 2

RE: Artillery issues - 1/15/2006 11:49:42 PM

lancerunolfsson

Posts: 257
Joined: 2/7/2005
Status: offline

The existing arty ammo rule is not very good the best easey way to fix it is to just get rid of it. The work around is just to open scenarios in the editor before play and set ammo to highest possible level. This of course does not deal with crew fatigue etc. but it does get rid of the silliness of 4lber using same ammo as 12lber;^)

(in reply to HMSWarspite)

Post #: 3

RE: Artillery issues - 1/16/2006 1:48:02 AM

rhondabrwn

Posts: 2570
Joined: 9/29/2004
From: Snowflake, Arizona
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lancerunolfsson

The existing arty ammo rule is not very good the best easey way to fix it is to just get rid of it. The work around is just to open scenarios in the editor before play and set ammo to highest possible level. This of course does not deal with crew fatigue etc. but it does get rid of the silliness of 4lber using same ammo as 12lber;^)

Actually, I would take the opposite approach. Consider REDUCING the artillery ammunition. It is unrealistic to have the artillery firing turn after turn after turn. In truth, as evidenced during Picket's Charge, that kind of intensive firing (even with full ammunition trains)is unrealistic. Reducing the total ammunition will force players to avoid unrealistic cannon barrages in favor of saving the artillery for supporting assaults or defending, not just taking continuous attritional potshots at anything within range.

Any permanent fix should include a realistic limit on artillery fire which is consistent with available ammunition. I would not want to see some arbitrary die roll occasionally just putting a unit "Out of ammo" - I want some relationship to the number of times the unit has fired before that alternative even presents itself.

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(in reply to lancerunolfsson)

Post #: 4

RE: Artillery issues - 1/16/2006 6:33:31 AM

MikeS

Posts: 3
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline

The way ammo resupply is handled for arty, and to a lesser degree, the way it is handled for skirmishers, was the main reason I stopped playing the Battleground series. There are probably several ways to solve the problem that would work better than the current arty ammo pool system where all batteries draw out of a magic central pool of ammo, or having each company of skirmishers draw the same amount of ammo out of the trains as regiment.

(in reply to Rhetor)

Post #: 5

RE: Artillery issues - 1/16/2006 8:02:20 AM

Rhetor

Posts: 117
Joined: 1/31/2005
From: Gdansk, Poland
Status: offline

quote:

Actually, I would take the opposite approach. Consider REDUCING the artillery ammunition. It is unrealistic to have the artillery firing turn after turn after turn. In truth, as evidenced during Picket's Charge, that kind of intensive firing (even with full ammunition trains)is unrealistic. Reducing the total ammunition will force players to avoid unrealistic cannon barrages in favor of saving the artillery for supporting assaults or defending, not just taking continuous attritional potshots at anything within range.

Exactly. In Civil War Battlegrounds, the ammunition pool was reasonably low (in Gettysburg it was 1000 for the Confederate and 1500 for the Union Army). In napoleonic battlegrounds, however, the artillery ammo reserve was way too high (around 4000 for each army).
The issue was discussed years ago on the site which featured "Battlefield Eylau" modification of BG:NIR.

(in reply to MikeS)

Post #: 6