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Stopping LRB's - 2/4/2006 9:46:14 AM   
Knaust

 

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It is early 1942...how can I stop massive and devastating B17's raids on my Jap bases?....the first raid always get a high toll from Jap based planes
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RE: Stopping LRB's - 2/4/2006 10:11:18 AM   
pauk


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ah, i assume it is well known Allied strategy in the opening round of the game? (B17 fly from Singapore or Java?)

if this is a case, then you should disperse your air force:

- nates and transpors to rear area,
- if weather is tunderstorm, withdraw your bombers too.

Put a STRONG CAP over base where you expect enemy strike - Zeros (you have zero bonus and you should be able to stop them),

Oscars could be used for CAP to but only as auxilary force, or if your opponent send B17s at 36 K feet for training purposes (if they are at low morale Oscars can bounce them)

hope this helps

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RE: Stopping LRB's - 2/4/2006 10:54:15 AM   
hawker


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quote:

It is early 1942...how can I stop massive and devastating B17's raids on my Jap bases?....the first raid always get a high toll from Jap based planes


Use Zeros in numbers. With Zero bonus you can quickly disperse 4E bombers early in 1942.

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RE: Stopping LRB's - 2/4/2006 6:11:12 PM   
Big B

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pauk


Put a STRONG CAP over base where you expect enemy strike - Zeros (you have zero bonus and you should be able to stop them),



quote:

ORIGINAL: hawker

quote:

It is early 1942...how can I stop massive and devastating B17's raids on my Jap bases?....the first raid always get a high toll from Jap based planes


Use Zeros in numbers. With Zero bonus you can quickly disperse 4E bombers early in 1942.


I would like to add - as food for thought - that my testing of the Zero Bonus (which was the comparative result of about 8,000 combat sorties) suggested that the increase in manuverability was only defensive in result - not offensive.

What the ZB showed me was that the full strength +5 Bonus was good for saving an estimated 15% to 20% of Zeros which would have been combat losses, but even at full strength, Zeros with the Bonus did not improve their rate of kills at all as compared to Zeros without any Bonus.

My point is that the ZB in itself will not help destroy allied aircraft (unless you count the fact the Zero losses will be a bit less and therefore you will have a few more Zeros to fly).

B

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RE: Stopping LRB's - 2/4/2006 6:19:12 PM   
hawker


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quote:

I would like to add - as food for thought - that my testing of the Zero Bonus (which was the comparative result of about 8,000 combat sorties) suggested that the increase in manuverability was only defensive in result - not offensive.

What the ZB showed me was that the full strength +5 Bonus was good for saving an estimated 15% to 20% of Zeros which would have been combat losses, but even at full strength, Zeros with the Bonus did not improve their rate of kills at all as compared to Zeros without any Bonus.

My point is that the ZB in itself will not help destroy allied aircraft (unless you count the fact the Zero losses will be a bit less and therefore you will have a few more Zeros to fly).

B


Hi B,
Allies just cant mass a big formations early in 1942,and there is moral problem,when B-17 see zero early in 1942 they run away.
I test this in invasion of Jawa aginst GH.

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RE: Stopping LRB's - 2/4/2006 6:24:30 PM   
Big B

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hawker

quote:

I would like to add - as food for thought - that my testing of the Zero Bonus (which was the comparative result of about 8,000 combat sorties) suggested that the increase in manuverability was only defensive in result - not offensive.

What the ZB showed me was that the full strength +5 Bonus was good for saving an estimated 15% to 20% of Zeros which would have been combat losses, but even at full strength, Zeros with the Bonus did not improve their rate of kills at all as compared to Zeros without any Bonus.

My point is that the ZB in itself will not help destroy allied aircraft (unless you count the fact the Zero losses will be a bit less and therefore you will have a few more Zeros to fly).

B


Hi B,
Allies just cant mass a big formations early in 1942,and there is moral problem,when B-17 see zero early in 1942 they run away.
I test this in invasion of Jawa aginst GH.


Hi Hawker,

I would not doubt the morale problem, I was just trying to say "Don't expect the ZB to shoot down any more a/c".

B

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RE: Stopping LRB's - 2/4/2006 6:28:14 PM   
hawker


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quote:

I would not doubt the morale problem, I was just trying to say "Don't expect the ZB to shoot down any more a/c".

B



That is my point B, if you manage to drive 4E away,you win.
In my Jawa campaign even nates drive away 4E.

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RE: Stopping LRB's - 2/4/2006 6:55:07 PM   
Big B

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hawker

quote:

I would not doubt the morale problem, I was just trying to say "Don't expect the ZB to shoot down any more a/c".

B



That is my point B, if you manage to drive 4E away,you win.
In my Jawa campaign even nates drive away 4E.


Exactly, it's a great tactic...but it has nothing to do with the ZB per se..

B

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RE: Stopping LRB's - 2/5/2006 10:03:31 AM   
Knaust

 

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one more question...is Nate-Zero tactics working in March-May 42?

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RE: Stopping LRB's - 2/5/2006 12:10:11 PM   
hawker


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quote:

one more question...is Nate-Zero tactics working in March-May 42?


Forget Nates,Nate is too short legged fighter,use them in rear areas and for escort bombers on targets which are not defended with first class fighters. Nate is obsolete at atart of war,instead of Nate Oscars are useful in 1942. After all "Peregrine Falcon" is most produced Japan fighter plane
Keep your elite zero pilots and use them only if you really need them,if you manage to keep some of your pre-war pilots you will have some chance later in war.

Kawasaki KI-61 Tony Later Army fighter. Only Japanese fighter of the war powered by an in-line engine. Code named "Swallow." The Tony was one of the few examples of German-Japanese technical cooperation in the war. Via submarine, Germany sent blueprints and two working examples of its excellent Bf109, including the DB 601A engine. Modified for Japanese production, the Ki61 emerged, a good fighter in theory, but which always bedeviled the Japanese in their attempts to build it in numbers, build it reliably, and maintain it in the field. The JAAF deployed the Tony to Rabaul and then to New Guinea. One-on-one, a well-maintained Ki-61 Tony, with a good pilot, could threaten any U.S. fighter. But difficulties with production, maintenance, and pilot training made that the exceptional case.

KI-84 "Hayate" Is my favorite,maybe the best plane Japan has.

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RE: Stopping LRB's - 2/5/2006 3:03:05 PM   
castor troy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hawker

quote:

one more question...is Nate-Zero tactics working in March-May 42?


Forget Nates,Nate is too short legged fighter,use them in rear areas and for escort bombers on targets which are not defended with first class fighters. Nate is obsolete at atart of war,instead of Nate Oscars are useful in 1942. After all "Peregrine Falcon" is most produced Japan fighter plane
Keep your elite zero pilots and use them only if you really need them,if you manage to keep some of your pre-war pilots you will have some chance later in war.

Kawasaki KI-61 Tony Later Army fighter. Only Japanese fighter of the war powered by an in-line engine. Code named "Swallow." The Tony was one of the few examples of German-Japanese technical cooperation in the war. Via submarine, Germany sent blueprints and two working examples of its excellent Bf109, including the DB 601A engine. Modified for Japanese production, the Ki61 emerged, a good fighter in theory, but which always bedeviled the Japanese in their attempts to build it in numbers, build it reliably, and maintain it in the field. The JAAF deployed the Tony to Rabaul and then to New Guinea. One-on-one, a well-maintained Ki-61 Tony, with a good pilot, could threaten any U.S. fighter. But difficulties with production, maintenance, and pilot training made that the exceptional case.

KI-84 "Hayate" Is my favorite,maybe the best plane Japan has.


Best Japanese plane is the Shinden. Unfortunately it arrives far too late.

(in reply to hawker)
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RE: Stopping LRB's - 2/5/2006 8:12:01 PM   
hawker


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quote:

Best Japanese plane is the Shinden. Unfortunately it arrives far too late.


I count only planes that contribute the war,not planes that come too late,i am not counting shinden and ME-262.
List of best planes(for me):

Great Britain-Spitfire
Germany-ME-109K and Focke wulf 190
Japan-KI-84 "Hayate"
USA-P-38

I dont count P-51 because this plane is 99% english

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RE: Stopping LRB's - 2/5/2006 8:43:31 PM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hawker

quote:

Best Japanese plane is the Shinden. Unfortunately it arrives far too late.


I count only planes that contribute the war,not planes that come too late,i am not counting shinden and ME-262.
List of best planes(for me):

Great Britain-Spitfire
Germany-ME-109K and Focke wulf 190
Japan-KI-84 "Hayate"
USA-P-38

I dont count P-51 because this plane is 99% english


?? Only thing English (iirc) on the P-51 was the engine *design*. The engines were manufactured in the US by Packard.

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RE: Stopping LRB's - 2/5/2006 10:49:27 PM   
hawker


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quote:

?? Only thing English (iirc) on the P-51 was the engine *design*. The engines were manufactured in the US by Packard.


Mustang has Brittish "Merlin" engine and it is not only thing,it is one of main things.

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RE: Stopping LRB's - 2/5/2006 11:03:25 PM   
el cid again

 

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quote:

Only thing English (iirc) on the P-51 was the engine *design*. The engines were manufactured in the US by Packard.


Apparently the plane is British in conception (being a Briton I object to being lumped into the term "English" - late coming and badly behaving Anglo Saxons are not the only people in the British Isles!). It was designed to their specifications by a US firm, but a technical failure until a British engine was added to it. Now I don't think that makes it "99% English" - but I do think it means it is a lot more than "just the engine" too. We didn't have the experience to specify such a plane, and it became the very best USAAF fighter of the war - still running neck and neck with the Navy F4U in international propeller speed races.

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RE: Stopping LRB's - 2/5/2006 11:37:29 PM   
pauk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again

Apparently the plane is British in conception (being a Briton I object to being lumped into the term "English" - late coming and badly behaving Anglo Saxons are not the only people in the British Isles!).


While all people know the fact that name England comes from Angles, Britain (Briton) comes from Celtic tribe Brits, it's interesting that Albion, one of first known names for Britain comes from the word which means "white". Albion (Alba) is first mentioned well before Christ by the Greeks (well i can check exactly when) and we can found root *albho in celtic language too. Name Alps is probably celtic name.

British Island was named Albion probably when migrants from continent saw south British shore (white stones)..

Of course that's have nothing with P-51 and it's design




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RE: Stopping LRB's - 2/6/2006 1:11:05 AM   
Hipper

 

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Was not one of the designers of the P51 a German anyway !!!
who also worked on the 109 !



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RE: Stopping LRB's - 2/6/2006 1:21:04 AM   
hawker


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quote:

Was not one of the designers of the P51 a German anyway !!!
who also worked on the 109 !


Ok,little story of P-51:

The P-51 Mustang is best remembered for its heroic escort missions in support of the B-17 Flying Fortress and B-24 Liberator bombers of the 8th Air Force. Able to take off from bases in England and fly all the way to Berlin and back, the Mustang was able to defend the bombers, fight the Luftwaffe and wreak havoc on the ground on the way home. The Mustang played a major part in the defeat of the Luftwaffe and gaining air superiority over Germany. But success was not immediate or as simple as it seems.



Following years of neglect and lethargy, the British Armed Forces were faced in the mid 30s with an increasingly unstable Europe and the distinct possibility of war. Despite having, in the Spitfire and Hurricane, some of the best fighter aircraft in the world, the RAF were unable to order sufficient numbers to face the increasingly threatening situation. The British Purchasing Commission (BPC) looked overseas in the late 30s for alternative sources of military aircraft. Despite the shortcomings of the type, the BPC began to order large numbers of the Curtis P-40. Curtis themselves were unable to meet the orders and timeframe required by the British and invited North American to undertake license production. NA were not happy with this situation and in April 1940 proposed an ambitious plan to produce an improved design, using the same Allison engine, but with a more streamlined and modern airframe. NA undertook to have a prototype available in double quick time and, using modern mass production techniques, deliver 320 of the new fighter by September 1941. The BPC ordered and the prototype duly flew in late October 1940, barely 6 months later! Over 600 were eventually ordered for the RAF as the Mustang 1. (The origin of the name "Mustang" is unknown).



The new fighter certainly looked good with a sleek, purposeful fuselage and neat laminar flow wings. Initial British tests showed that the Mustang 1 was around 35 MPH faster than the Spitfire V at up to 15,000 feet but above that height, performance dropped off rapidly. Time to height was also poor in the Mustang and the British decided to continue development of the Spitfire as an interceptor and utilise the Mustang for other tasks such as Army Co-operation and Ground Attack. In this role, the Mustang was quite a success although it was found wanting in the event of enemy fighter intervention. The Mustang was not at this stage an air to air fighter but things were to change!



In April 1942, Ronald Harker, Rolls Royce senior Test Pilot was invited to fly in a Mustang 1. In part of a subsequent memo he wrote "....the point which strikes me is that with a powerful and a good engine like the Merlin 61, its performance could be outstanding....". This lead to a meeting between the Air Ministry and Roll Royce and ultimately to the decision to proceed with the RR Merlin engined Mustang. The installation was relatively easy, the cowlings even remaining largely unaltered. Meantime, the Americans also proceeded to install a licence built Packard Merlin engine in the Mustang. First flight of a Merlin powered Mustang was on 13 October 1942 and despite a few teething problems and directional stability problems, the Merlin Mustang was a huge success. The Packard Merlin installation proved a little more troublesome, the license built engines being less reliable and prone to leakage. Both the RAF, as the Mustang III, and the USAAF, as the P-51B, ordered large numbers of the "new" fighter. The Americans, having found that unescorted daylight bomber raids over Germany proved too costly, found in the Mustang a fighter with the performance and range to cover the bombers deep into the Reich.



The P-51B (and the P-51C built at Dallas) began to enter service with the USAAF and flew the first European missions in December 1943. Initially, problems were encountered with freezing guns and the still troublesome Packard Merlin engines. Gradually however, the problems were ironed out and the Mustang began to replace the earlier P-47s and P-38s in the Bomber escort role.



In late 1943, the definitive Wartime Mustang, the P-51D, was ordered. This introduced the bubble canopy, more fuselage tankage, the ability to carry 100 gallon drop tanks and an improved version of the Packard Merlin. Now the USAAF had an escort fighter which could fly all the way to Berlin and back and the first escorted raid to the Nazi capital took place on 6th March 1944. As the air war intensified during 1944, the Mustangs gradually frittered the Luftwaffe down in the long war of attrition. This was the Mustangs finest hour and rightly, its claim to fame. Many of the American aces and commanders, along with their Mustangs, became heroes and household names. Without doubt, the Mustang was the finest American fighter of the War. In all, just under 14,500 Mutangs were built in the US with a further 100 being assembled in Australia by Commonwealth, who also manufactured another 226.



After WWII, with the dawning of the jet age, many thousands of Mustangs were stored and scrapped. Many however made their way to fledgeling Air Forces all over the World and formed the backbone of many for years. The Mustang made an important contribution in the Korean war in the fighter-Bomber role, re-equipping several wings due to the short range of the early jets.



Post war, the Mustang has also made a name for itself on the Warbird scene. The Mustang is by far the most numerous and popular airworthy warbird in the World. In 2002, some 160 or so examples of this great fighter are airworthy and another 20 or so are in rebuild.

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RE: Stopping LRB's - 2/6/2006 2:37:25 AM   
witpqs


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pauk,

I rather enjoyed your little diversion.

(in reply to hawker)
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