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RE: Something to "fry" your gaming brains! - 2/24/2006 6:53:36 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline
quote:

The only drawback to these ports of boardgames is that in most cases (but NOT all) one needs to own the original game or have access to a copy of the rules, as they are not included. The reasoning for that is to avoid copyright issues and the theory is that only persons already owning the original games, can use these products. I can tell you that I currently have every one of those engines (with the exception of Hexwar) on my computer and some of the modules are very nice. They are faithful recreations! The only one I avoid are the for $$$ versions, but that's only because they haven't done any of my favs that way yet.



One other drawback when trying to play the boardgames via PBEM with these programs is that most boardgames are very interactive and may require turns be sent back and forth for several phases to be completed before the turn is actually completed.

_____________________________

Here's a link to:
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"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

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Post #: 61
RE: Something to "fry" your gaming brains! - 2/24/2006 7:18:17 PM   
Skyros


Posts: 1570
Joined: 9/29/2000
From: Columbia SC
Status: offline 		I had mine out the other day. I was finishing up "Broken Sword" and it made me nostalgic. Lots of fun playing that game, I miss the socialization too. Thats why I never liked playing the D&D computer games, it was more fun playing with 4 or 5 other people watching the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Demosthenes


quote:

ORIGINAL: bilbow

Agree generally with this, but there is one area where computer games are far better simulations, and that is FOW. Board games have never come up with a good way of handling FOW, and it is especially important in situations like those represented in WIP.


Generally you are correct, but -
Have you ever played Avalon Hill's original Midway ... with the screen deviding the search board..






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Post #: 62
RE: Something to "fry" your gaming brains! - 2/24/2006 7:27:10 PM   
Mynok


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Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline
And don't forget all the house rules in board games either, like no drinks near the map. Nothing like Lake CocaCola with miniature cardboard barges floating on it......

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Post #: 63
RE: Something to "fry" your gaming brains! - 2/24/2006 7:42:09 PM   
Demosthenes


Posts: 525
Joined: 12/8/2005
From: Los Angeles CA
Status: offline 		For those that have never seen the map of a 'monster game' here is SPI's CNA (Campaign for North Africa)
(not my daughter)





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Post #: 64
RE: Something to "fry" your gaming brains! - 2/24/2006 7:46:19 PM   
Mynok


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I see you caught a dangerous creature trying to mess up the game.... Good timing!

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Post #: 65
RE: Something to "fry" your gaming brains! - 2/24/2006 7:49:04 PM   
Demosthenes


Posts: 525
Joined: 12/8/2005
From: Los Angeles CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


I see you caught a dangerous creature trying to mess up the game.... Good timing!

I'm afraid I can't take credit for that little cutie in the picture...
I don't know who she is - I downloaded that picture from Board Game Geek

www.boardgamegeek.com

Cool site for Board Games!

< Message edited by Demosthenes -- 2/24/2006 8:06:15 PM >

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Post #: 66
RE: Something to "fry" your gaming brains! - 2/24/2006 7:50:07 PM   
Przemcio231


Posts: 1901
Joined: 10/11/2005
From: Warsaw,Poland,EU:)
Status: offline 		I play GMT games... they are fun , quick (you can finish playing in few houers) and the Card system is great the best are:
-For the People ( American Civil War)
-Paths of Glory (IWW)
-Thirthy Years War (17th century war in Europe between Catholics and Protestants)

you can check them out on www.gmtgames.com

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Post #: 67
RE: Something to "fry" your gaming brains! - 2/24/2006 8:11:50 PM   
Demosthenes


Posts: 525
Joined: 12/8/2005
From: Los Angeles CA
Status: offline 		And this is the map to SPIs original (1978) War in the Pacific (I still have my copy)






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Post #: 68
RE: Something to "fry" your gaming brains! - 2/24/2006 8:22:02 PM   
Demosthenes


Posts: 525
Joined: 12/8/2005
From: Los Angeles CA
Status: offline 		And here's an example of a beautiful map board...Avalon Hill's Thunder at Cassino





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Post #: 69
RE: Something to "fry" your gaming brains! - 2/24/2006 8:22:44 PM   
panda124c

 

Posts: 1692
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Nice medium siized game.... now look at the map for Drag Nach Osten (I know, bad spelling). Just because of the unit count you really needed a northern, central, and southern front player on both sides. And talking about different phases in a turn anyone play SPI's USN. I seem to remember that there were some 15 or 20 phases per turn per side.

This could explain a lot about my mental condition, or maybe not...........

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Post #: 70
RE: Something to "fry" your gaming brains! - 2/24/2006 8:24:56 PM   
Demosthenes


Posts: 525
Joined: 12/8/2005
From: Los Angeles CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pbear

Nice medium siized game.... now look at the map for Drag Nach Osten (I know, bad spelling). Just because of the unit count you really needed a northern, central, and southern front player on both sides. And talking about different phases in a turn anyone play SPI's USN. I seem to remember that there were some 15 or 20 phases per turn per side.

This could explain a lot about my mental condition, or maybe not...........


I think that would apply to most all of us...so we won't go there

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Post #: 71
RE: Something to "fry" your gaming brains! - 2/24/2006 11:35:24 PM   
Sonny

 

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Joined: 4/3/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Demosthenes

And this is the map to SPIs original (1978) War in the Pacific (I still have my copy)







That looks funny - Japan on a north-south axis rather than east-west as in WitP.

_____________________________

Quote from Snigbert -

"If you mess with the historical accuracy, you're going to have ahistorical outcomes."

"I'll say it again for Sonny's sake: If you mess with historical accuracy, you're going to have
ahistorical outcomes. "

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Post #: 72
RE: Something to "fry" your gaming brains! - 2/24/2006 11:37:42 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent

You have no AI in board games.



One word: lobotomy

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Post #: 73
RE: Something to "fry" your gaming brains! - 2/25/2006 12:29:55 AM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sonny

quote:

ORIGINAL: Demosthenes

And this is the map to SPIs original (1978) War in the Pacific (I still have my copy)







That looks funny - Japan on a north-south axis rather than east-west as in WitP.



IIRC if you notice on the map there are several horizontal lines every 30 hexes or so....the movement rate in each of these "zones" was different.

_____________________________

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"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

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Post #: 74
RE: Something to "fry" your gaming brains! - 2/25/2006 12:35:03 AM   
Demosthenes


Posts: 525
Joined: 12/8/2005
From: Los Angeles CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sonny

quote:

ORIGINAL: Demosthenes

And this is the map to SPIs original (1978) War in the Pacific (I still have my copy)







That looks funny - Japan on a north-south axis rather than east-west as in WitP.



IIRC if you notice on the map there are several horizontal lines every 30 hexes or so....the movement rate in each of these "zones" was different.


Quite correct - I think each hex shrunk (or grew) about 10NM across each lattitude marked with a transitional line.

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Post #: 75
RE: Something to "fry" your gaming brains! - 2/25/2006 1:25:01 AM   
Mynok


Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli


quote:

ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent

You have no AI in board games.



One word: lobotomy


Did that....now I've got an Artificial Idiot .......

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 76
RE: Something to "fry" your gaming brains! - 2/25/2006 3:10:19 AM   
AmiralLaurent

 

Posts: 3351
Joined: 3/11/2003
From: Near Paris, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Demosthenes

And this is the map to SPIs original (1978) War in the Pacific (I still have my copy)







And where are the extensions for invading Karachi, Anchorage, Panama, San Francisco or Madagascar ? I'm sorry but this map is too small...

Well the different movement speed per area were a good idea. Actually that can be another improvement brought by the computer: no more hexes (running for cover....).


(in reply to Demosthenes)
Post #: 77
RE: Something to "fry" your gaming brains! - 2/25/2006 4:39:10 AM   
2Stepper


Posts: 948
Joined: 1/19/2003
From: North Burbs of Omaha
Status: offline 		The fact that they considered "longer" hex distances at all in this game is impressive as they tried to mimic the physical dynamics of latitude. Pretty wild. I find myself wondering what the weather patterns were simulated to be like?

Being the local weather guy you'd wonder what sort of effort they took there as the West Pac is the busiest part of the globe for Typhoons, etc.

Just curious. As for the map, its cool, but paper... I have a cat that'd have a field day with that... Not to mention the little cardboard counters. That's why I don't do any boardgaming now. Despite having a number of minted games that I inherited. No time, and less ambition to have my cat "eat" them.

_____________________________


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Post #: 78
RE: Something to "fry" your gaming brains! - 2/25/2006 5:28:45 AM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3652
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline 		That War in the Pacific map looks much more realistic than the computer version. Or is that just "Mercator Projection prejudice"?

Being a relative youngster I've never played board wargames. However, I have bought a couple and looked at them longingly.

I think that if someone could come out with a computer wargame that a) worked, b) replicated the boardgame experience and c) eliminated the manual calculation aspect they would clean up ...


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Post #: 79
RE: Something to "fry" your gaming brains! - 2/25/2006 5:51:47 AM   
Mike Scholl

 

Posts: 9349
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent
And where are the extensions for invading Karachi, Anchorage, Panama, San Francisco or Madagascar ? I'm sorry but this map is too small...


SPI was a more historically realistic outfit..., they didn't include map areas for the impossible or the rediculous.. Japanese Merchant Shipping was much more realistically represented, and stretched to the max to meet the supply needs of the real war. The ground combat/supply system was totally screwed up, so in that respect SPI and 2by3 achieved equality.


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Post #: 80
RE: Something to "fry" your gaming brains! - 2/25/2006 6:31:49 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, In SPI War in the Pacific Japanese merchant shipping was much more abstract then in 2by3 War in the Pacific.
In the board game the Japanese player(s) had to spend more time planning their eventual "pipelines" then a Japanese player needs in 2by3 for turn 1.
It was the location and size of these future pipelines that dictated operations for both Japan and Allies. But the Allies had a much easier task early in war and thus more time to plan their future pipeline layouts.

Depending on number of merchants assgined per stack and distance between stacks the players moved their units fuel and supply and resource/oil. You wrote down what you were feeding into one end of a pipeline and the size determined how long it would take to pop out the other side. You could move equal material each direction.

Compared to 2by3 the system produced the exact same results. (Good Japanese planners in SPI game could conduct operations just as fast as good japanese in 2by3 game) However where in 2by3 the Japanese player needs to actually send ships in TF and load and unload in SPI game once the pipeline was set up all he had to do was say "sending 100xA6M2 to Singapore as replacements and out they poped a few turns later. In SPI game I normally had more surplus items at front then I do in 2by3 version.

But in both game the player who understands the logistics and plans according to what he can provide does better then the player who does helter skelter supply
"Oh look Lunga is out of supply. I better load an Ak"

It was much easier to provide ASW for SPI pipeline then it is to provide escort in 2by3.
Also in SPI you could just place merchants into a TF and move supply that way. (this is how out of the way locations or locations inside enemy air range were supplied)

OK lets hear about the SPI land combat system. It was great for atolls or places where less then 2 divisions per side were located but it was (like 2by3) combat inside the hex and in China or Siberia resulted in nightmares tracking supply and figuring combat ratios.


< Message edited by Mogami -- 2/25/2006 6:34:51 AM >

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Post #: 81
RE: Something to "fry" your gaming brains! - 2/25/2006 7:16:27 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		"Just to weigh in on my "geekiness", I personally own AH's The Longest Day, SPI's War In The Pacific, War In Europe, GDW's The Third World War & Assault series and VG's Pacific War & the Fleet Series (all 5 volumes). That's it as far as monsters go, but I do have another 25-30 boxed wargames laying around. I recently removed them from storage, as I was getting nostalgic! Computer games in my book, only offer a few advantages over board games and that is ease of setup, space issues and the ability to comeback when ready (i.e. save). Board games however (especially the monsters) are simply awesome, the counters, the maps, no computer game can truly convey how massive say the War In The Pacific truly was, quite like seeing those "acres" of maps from SPI's WitP. Also, the face to face gaming is incredible, you truly get to know your partner and can actually socialize. Computers are nice, but I see them as the "lazy" way to game.

Rick "


Rick, did you ever try to join all the fleet games together into one monster? I had it set up in the guest room some years ago, but it had to come down when christmas guests needed the room. I was playing it solitare, anyway.

Another one I tried to set up was a combined GCACW. Those are among my favorite maps of all time. They took the army survey maps of the late-war post-war area, colored them, and laid a hex grid on them. The combined version covers from somewhere south of Petersburg to a little north of Gettysburg. I never finished setting it up (my adapted scenario) because I couldn't spare the space longer than the afternoon I messed around with it.



" quote:

ORIGINAL: bilbow

Agree generally with this, but there is one area where computer games are far better simulations, and that is FOW. Board games have never come up with a good way of handling FOW, and it is especially important in situations like those represented in WIP.



Generally you are correct, but -
Have you ever played Avalon Hill's original Midway ... with the screen deviding the search board.. "



Another game which handled Fog of War pretty well was Flattop. You tracked you ships on a paper map with pencil and only placed the sighted ones on the mapboard. Victory Games' Tokyo Express and Carriers were both solitaire games that had a pretty good method of creating a FOW effect.

The wargamers club back in college was into refereed games. Each player had his own mapboard and the referee moved the units once they came within sight (either by the game rules as in Squad Leader or by house rules). WE had one referee who was very animated. I think he was a duingeonmaster on non-wargamersclub weekends...

< Message edited by bradfordkay -- 2/25/2006 7:17:48 AM >

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

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Post #: 82
RE: Something to "fry" your gaming brains! - 2/25/2006 7:28:29 AM   
MadmanRick


Posts: 579
Joined: 4/9/2004
From: New York City, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		Brad,
Concerning connecting all the Fleet games together, I did do it with all but 3rd Fleet. So I had 6th, 2nd, 7th & 5th Fleet connected and I was also playing solitaire on this one, as I had noone who was interested in modern naval combat. It was truly a monster, but was it ever alot of fun. I actually called in sick a few times, because I was so caught up in this one! Not long after this though, I happened upon Harpoon and my boardgames were shelved not long after. I long for those days though and I am actually considering joining a wargame club. I'm also going to head to Origins this year, I've never been to a game convention before, so hopefully it'll be fun!

Rick

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Post #: 83
RE: Something to "fry" your gaming brains! - 2/25/2006 7:30:54 AM   
Demosthenes


Posts: 525
Joined: 12/8/2005
From: Los Angeles CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay


quote:

Generally you are correct, but -
Have you ever played Avalon Hill's original Midway ... with the screen deviding the search board.. "



Another game which handled Fog of War pretty well was Flattop. You tracked you ships on a paper map with pencil and only placed the sighted ones on the mapboard. Victory Games' Tokyo Express and Carriers were both solitaire games that had a pretty good method of creating a FOW effect.

The wargamers club back in college was into refereed games. Each player had his own mapboard and the referee moved the units once they came within sight (either by the game rules as in Squad Leader or by house rules). WE had one referee who was very animated. I think he was a duingeonmaster on non-wargamersclub weekends...


I still have that one too, one of the best CV boardgames




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Post #: 84
RE: Something to "fry" your gaming brains! - 2/25/2006 7:58:35 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		I see that you have the Avalon Hill version. I have that as well as the earlier Battleline edition. It is my favorite boardgame of all time, though there are others that I've played more often...it's probably the subject matter, which is why I'm here, of course.

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

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Post #: 85
RE: Something to "fry" your gaming brains! - 2/25/2006 10:03:34 AM   
RUPD3658


Posts: 6922
Joined: 8/28/2002
From: East Brunswick, NJ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Demosthenes

quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay


quote:

Generally you are correct, but -
Have you ever played Avalon Hill's original Midway ... with the screen deviding the search board.. "



Another game which handled Fog of War pretty well was Flattop. You tracked you ships on a paper map with pencil and only placed the sighted ones on the mapboard. Victory Games' Tokyo Express and Carriers were both solitaire games that had a pretty good method of creating a FOW effect.

The wargamers club back in college was into refereed games. Each player had his own mapboard and the referee moved the units once they came within sight (either by the game rules as in Squad Leader or by house rules). WE had one referee who was very animated. I think he was a duingeonmaster on non-wargamersclub weekends...


I still have that one too, one of the best CV boardgames





Flat Top. Great game. Spent many a day over summer breaks plaing this.

There was a WW3 boardgame that was huge too. It was sold in modules and eventually took up our entire livingroom. Covered everythingthing from Finland to North Africa and Europe to Turkey. My step-father was a boardgame fanatic and started me down the path....


_____________________________

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits"- Darwin Awards 2003

"No plan survives contact with the enemy." - Field Marshall Helmuth von Moltke


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Post #: 86
RE: Something to "fry" your gaming brains! - 2/25/2006 4:18:13 PM   
erstad

 

Posts: 1944
Joined: 8/3/2004
From: Midwest USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 2Stepper

The fact that they considered "longer" hex distances at all in this game is impressive as they tried to mimic the physical dynamics of latitude. Pretty wild. I find myself wondering what the weather patterns were simulated to be like?



There was some representation of weather effects. Something like 5 months of the year were considered monsoon season for SE asia. Effects were pretty severe; all airbases in jungle had automatic and "permanent" (for the duration) damage applied, which caused significant attrition. There were also penalties to ground movement/combat. There were also some kind of winter effects in the northern movement zone. Not recalling any explicit micro-effects like squalls, etc.

(in reply to 2Stepper)
Post #: 87
RE: Something to "fry" your gaming brains! - 2/25/2006 4:33:48 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadmanRick

If you are truly interested in boardgame transfers for computer play, check out these sites:

http://www.hpssims.com/Pages/products/adc2/ADC2-Main.html
http://www.vassalengine.org/community/index.php?option=com_welcome&task=display&displayAll=1
http://cyberboard.brainiac.com/download.html
http://www.wargamesbymail.com/
http://hexwar.com/

The only drawback to these ports of boardgames is that in most cases (but NOT all) one needs to own the original game or have access to a copy of the rules, as they are not included. The reasoning for that is to avoid copyright issues and the theory is that only persons already owning the original games, can use these products. I can tell you that I currently have every one of those engines (with the exception of Hexwar) on my computer and some of the modules are very nice. They are faithful recreations! The only one I avoid are the for $$$ versions, but that's only because they haven't done any of my favs that way yet.


Thanks for info Rick (and others!) - interesting stuff!!!


Leo "Apollo11"




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Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

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P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

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Post #: 88
RE: Something to "fry" your gaming brains! - 2/26/2006 1:28:34 AM   
MadmanRick


Posts: 579
Joined: 4/9/2004
From: New York City, U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

There was a WW3 boardgame that was huge too. It was sold in modules and eventually took up our entire livingroom. Covered everythingthing from Finland to North Africa and Europe to Turkey. My step-father was a boardgame fanatic and started me down the path....


I think you are referring to GDW's The Third World War, it had 4 modules; The Third World War: Battle For Germany, Arctic Front, Southern Front & Persian Gulf. It is my all-time favorite modern land combat game. I still have it in board game format, as well as an electronic version done for Cyberboard.

Rick

_____________________________


"Our lives begin to end the moment we become silent about things that matter". Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

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Post #: 89
RE: Something to "fry" your gaming brains! - 2/26/2006 6:07:04 PM   
2Stepper


Posts: 948
Joined: 1/19/2003
From: North Burbs of Omaha
Status: offline 		Ahhh, GDW's Third WW. Buddy of mine owned it and IT "owned" us for many a summer when we were growing up. That, among others of course. I typically played the Russians and eventually got rather "liberal" with Nuking the west.

I know, I know, "evil" bolshevik. LOL!

Still, for the modern age it was the best board game I'd seen. HPS has had some interesting ones going, but I've yet seen one as inclusive as that for coverage, etc.

Seem to remember something I mentioned about "nostalgia?" Just thinking back gets one a bit nostalgic. Immediately followed by a bit ill over the notion of the "setup".

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Post #: 90
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