Skirmishers/Leader casualties

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Skirmishers/Leader casualties

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [American Civil War] >> John Tiller's Battleground Series >> Skirmishers/Leader casualties

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Skirmishers/Leader casualties - 2/27/2006 7:55:25 AM

Praepositus

Posts: 13
Joined: 4/16/2005
Status: offline

Greetings to all, and sorry if this has been brought up previously-

I have a suggestion for the ACW games. I hope the developers will be able to fix the arbitrary system of skirmishing as used by the 32-bit version of the games. As it stands, I can only deploy an entire battalion or regiment as skirmishers, and only in one hex. Is it possible to change the game so that the skirmishing rules mirror reality more effectively? Or make them atleast closer to the Napoleonic series?

For instance, the 143 PA in Stone's Brigade in the Union I Corps during the 1st day of Gettsyburg had detached one or two companies for picket duty up on Willoughby Run keeping an eye on Heth and Pender, whereas the rest of the regiment fought around the unfinished railroad and McPherson Ridge against Rodes. I would like to be able to do this in the game, but right now I can't.

Additionally, regarding leader casualties. I think the game has to be tweaked to make this more of a reality, and I think it can be done in two ways.

First, can you change the CRT and MRT to rachet up the possibility of a leader being injured or killed? (and while you're at it, maybe the CRT could be more bloody- It's much harder to kill these troops in the game than it was in reality.)

Second, perhaps rules for sharpshooters could be developed. Most units, if I remember correctly, had special ad hoc units of the best marksmen. These men could be represented directly as units as the old board game Squad Leader did with snipers, or indirectly as a random event.

As the game works now, I can't seem to kill anyone. I'm playing Gettsyburg, I'm almost finished with day one, and I'm sending Reynolds to every combat I can but the man just won't die.

Just a thought!

Praepositus

Post #: 1

RE: Skirmishers/Leader casualties - 2/27/2006 8:44:17 AM

rhondabrwn

Posts: 2570
Joined: 9/29/2004
From: Snowflake, Arizona
Status: offline

Actually, the prevailing wisdom is that the BG games are way too bloody with casualties taken in 25 man increments. The HPS games count apply individal casualties from 1 to ??? depending upon the odds and combat resolution results.

It seems like the HPS games do kill off leaders more quickly. I'm in the middle of a Campaign Gettysburg game and most of the I corps division commanders are no dead and virtually every line unit is commanded by "anonymous".

Do you play with the optional rule to count leader casualties for victory points? That is intended to encourage players to keep officers out of the line of fire instead of thrusting them forward as you seem to like to do. You are actually trying to kill off Reynolds? Shame!

On the skirmisher issue:

Perhaps the answer might be to allow a regiment to deploy into an extended three hex line when assigned as skirmishers. Haven't given any thought to how casualties would be incurred or how the unit would fight (perhaps just with 1/3 strength considered to be in each hex and normal combat). That would give you a flavor of having a skirmish line out in fron of your Brigade.

As to breaking units out into skirmisher units like in the Napoleonic titles, I would vote no on that. I really do not want the added complexity of managing picket lines with dozens of little 100 man units. The current skirmisher rules really satisfy me.

_____________________________

Love & Peace,

Far Dareis Mai

My old Piczo site seems to be gone, so no more Navajo Nation pics :(

(in reply to Praepositus)

Post #: 2

RE: Skirmishers/Leader casualties - 2/27/2006 2:35:44 PM

Caranorn

Posts: 424
Joined: 8/31/2001
From: Luxembourg
Status: offline

1) I agree with rhondabrwn on casualties. As far as I can tell (I had to stop my research for teh past two weeks and will be out for anotehr two weeks, my computer crashes too often for me to actually work on it) most civil war battles had much lower casualties then what commonly results in BG series games (that is of course in part due to the fact that no sensible general (maybe Hood on opium and in a very bad mood:-) would attack the way we tend to do in this game). Of course, and again I only consider killed and wounded as casualties (and stragglers to be covered by fatigue).

2) Leader casualties I don't really know, I never paid particular attention to this. Though generall, I don't end up with corps or army leaders on the firing line. Even my division leaders usually spend their time a few hexes to the rear.

3) Skirmishers, I agree that a better system might be found for this. In at least some battles regiments would detach multiple companies as you described. But when you play the napoleonic BG games you will notice that the large number of such detachments can get pretty annoying and often unrealistic (the few tournament games I played we used a house rule forbidding regular (non guard/light) skirmishers from deploying in the open more then three hexes from their parent unit). Maybe a light/regular distinction could also be included in the ACW BG games (some regiments and battalions were always used to form skirmishers, others never (or never over great distance). Allow those light units to indeed detach skirmishers as in the Napoleonic BG games, but never more then 50% of original strength (even that was rare, other then actually splitting a regiment into two battalions).

4) Sharpshooters, as units I feel these do not belong into the game (that's in relation to 3) above, they were essentially split up all the time. What I'd like to see is increased leader casualty risk when fired at from a forest, orchard, building or rock hex (not usuing actual BG terms here, but you get the idea). Maybe have the exact increase be variable from battle to battle and side to side (one side might have only a handfull of ineficient sharpshooters while the other has a few batallions armed with shaprs rifles...).

P.S.: Thinking about it, leader casualties as at Pea Ridge (the one battle I have almost completed work on for my board game) are certainly as good as impossible in BG (McCulloch gets killed, McIntosh gets killed, H�bert gets captured... leaving a entire division leaderless (Pike did not belong to the division, while he assumed command that was actually one of teh reasons for the dissolution of that division on the first day of battle (Greer was next in the chain of command and rightfully assumed command of those units neer him) in less then an hour, of course that dosn't even mention leader casualties of the union and of van Dorn/Price's wing (Price wounded, Slack dead of wounds...)). So maybe leader casualty rates should also be variable from battle to battle and side to side.

_____________________________

Marc aka Caran... ministerialis

(in reply to rhondabrwn)

Post #: 3