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The PDS could really use some work...

 
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The PDS could really use some work... - 3/5/2006 12:20:56 PM   
Magnum357

 

Posts: 613
Joined: 4/22/2005
Status: offline 		I've just spent the last 5 hours trying to make Custom plays with the PDS and all I can say is that I think the PDS needs a ton of work. Now I'm not complaining about the game, it has a lot of potential, but there are some SERIOUS problems with the PDS that must be looked at if MF wants a good following.

For example, no matter what technique I try, just getting a decent Pass play to complete passes is next to impossible right now. Every time the QB throws a Pass with one of my custom plays, it hardly ever goes to the intended area of where the Reciever is. Most of the time the QB just throws a "Dart pass" and it flys torward the othere side of the feild. If there are suppose to be "Read", "bullet", and "Lob" passes, I sure don't see them. Are these other kind of passes even in the game?! No matter what I set, all passes are "Bullet pass" and hardly ever fly to the right area of where the Reciever is suppose to be. And most of these PDS run plays are with just the Offense only (no Defense) and they still hardly ever get completed. Design running plays is tough too. It can be done, but its very tricky.
Post #: 1
RE: The PDS could really use some work... - 3/5/2006 3:39:36 PM   
mark1726

 

Posts: 104
Joined: 2/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Magnum357

I've just spent the last 5 hours trying to make Custom plays with the PDS and all I can say is that I think the PDS needs a ton of work. Now I'm not complaining about the game, it has a lot of potential, but there are some SERIOUS problems with the PDS that must be looked at if MF wants a good following.

For example, no matter what technique I try, just getting a decent Pass play to complete passes is next to impossible right now. Every time the QB throws a Pass with one of my custom plays, it hardly ever goes to the intended area of where the Reciever is. Most of the time the QB just throws a "Dart pass" and it flys torward the othere side of the feild. If there are suppose to be "Read", "bullet", and "Lob" passes, I sure don't see them. Are these other kind of passes even in the game?! No matter what I set, all passes are "Bullet pass" and hardly ever fly to the right area of where the Reciever is suppose to be. And most of these PDS run plays are with just the Offense only (no Defense) and they still hardly ever get completed. Design running plays is tough too. It can be done, but its very tricky.


Acutally, I think the Offensive side of the PDS is done quite well. I have had no problems developing good pass plays. You need to play around with it more and figure out how it works. If you design a play for a specific WR make him the "Primary Target" to ensure the QB tries to go to him. Timed passes do have the same feel, I think that is more of a problem with the extreme arm strength these guys have from the default rosters.

The defensive side of the PDS is fairly confusing, but works okay once you figure out how it operates and understand it's limitations. I think some things could be added in pass coverage to better direct things, but it is workable.

(in reply to Magnum357)
Post #: 2
RE: The PDS could really use some work... - 3/5/2006 5:31:44 PM   
Sonny

 

Posts: 2008
Joined: 4/3/2002
Status: offline 		I had the same problems with some pass plays and not with others - even with a designated receiver the QB throws to the other side of the field.

I have not tried extensively (the practice play routine takes way too long to set up each time) but two things seem to help. One is to not give commands to receivers on the opposite side of the field from where your primary receiver is located. Not an ideal situation but it got the play to work more often. The other is to check your receivers commands. I found that I did not save one of the command points (should only have to save the whole play not each individual point) and so the receiver did not look for the pass.

There needs to be detailed instructions for the PDS by someone who has extensive experience with creating both offensive and defensive plays.

_____________________________

Quote from Snigbert -

"If you mess with the historical accuracy, you're going to have ahistorical outcomes."

"I'll say it again for Sonny's sake: If you mess with historical accuracy, you're going to have
ahistorical outcomes. "

(in reply to mark1726)
Post #: 3
RE: The PDS could really use some work... - 3/5/2006 11:08:09 PM   
Magnum357

 

Posts: 613
Joined: 4/22/2005
Status: offline 		I'll give those suggestions a try and see if I have more success.

(in reply to Sonny)
Post #: 4
RE: The PDS could really use some work... - 3/6/2006 2:42:58 AM   
Magnum357

 

Posts: 613
Joined: 4/22/2005
Status: offline 		So far, with further Testing, Sonny's suggestion seems to have helped out a little. If your creating a pass play, its better to have only the Intended Receiver to "Look for pass" function because it seems the QB is less confused or something if he throws to only 1 intended reciever. But this has not completely solved my issues.

As I have stated in another thread, it seems to me that Complicated Pass routes have a greater degree of the QB totally missing the Intended Receiver. With some testing of Stock Plays, like play "Staggard Fly" of the 8 man Playbook, the QB has much better success completing that pass as the Receiver merely Runs about 5 yards past the LOS, a pretty simple Route. But I have had serious problems creating plays with complicated Receiver Routes. Most of my PDS Practice Plays are "Dry Run" with No Defensive Opposition. I do this in order to test out the mechanics of the play with no Defensive Presure of any kind. The QB should NOT be hardly missing his intended receiver at all in these kind of situations as its just a "Dry Run" to see how the Play flows. You could do this in Football Pro and 9 times out of 10 that play would "Flow" with no problems. I was hoping MF would be able to do that same so that I could test the "Flow" of my plays before I go full bore and test them in OFFENSE/DEFENSE situations.

David, I'm not critisizing you about this. I think Max Football really does have huge potential here, but the PDS and how custom plays are made need to be addressed in order for MF to be a success.

(in reply to Magnum357)
Post #: 5
RE: The PDS could really use some work... - 3/6/2006 3:20:09 AM   
Deft

 

Posts: 299
Joined: 9/17/2005
Status: offline 		Also work on timing. Have the QB wait for a period until the receivers are looking.

There is also a little play button in the PDS that lets the buttons move to their intended locations.


< Message edited by Deft -- 3/6/2006 3:21:21 AM >

(in reply to Magnum357)
Post #: 6
RE: The PDS could really use some work... - 3/6/2006 8:59:33 AM   
Magnum357

 

Posts: 613
Joined: 4/22/2005
Status: offline 		Yes, I have already taken that advice and have added extra "Wait Time" for the QB when he drops back to pass. This is actually esential for plays where the Receivers have to go quite a distance (like Long Fly/Up Routes) to get to there designated "Wait For pass" spots, because if you don't add that extra "Wait Time" to the QB, over time he will think the receivers are not open and then try to scramble.

Deft, I'm not sure what you mean in the second part of your message.

(in reply to Deft)
Post #: 7
RE: The PDS could really use some work... - 3/6/2006 3:16:28 PM   
Sonny

 

Posts: 2008
Joined: 4/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Magnum357

.........................

Deft, I'm not sure what you mean in the second part of your message.


He means the little arrow at the top which runs the play.

_____________________________

Quote from Snigbert -

"If you mess with the historical accuracy, you're going to have ahistorical outcomes."

"I'll say it again for Sonny's sake: If you mess with historical accuracy, you're going to have
ahistorical outcomes. "

(in reply to Magnum357)
Post #: 8
RE: The PDS could really use some work... - 3/6/2006 3:24:55 PM   
mark1726

 

Posts: 104
Joined: 2/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Magnum357

Yes, I have already taken that advice and have added extra "Wait Time" for the QB when he drops back to pass. This is actually esential for plays where the Receivers have to go quite a distance (like Long Fly/Up Routes) to get to there designated "Wait For pass" spots, because if you don't add that extra "Wait Time" to the QB, over time he will think the receivers are not open and then try to scramble.

Deft, I'm not sure what you mean in the second part of your message.


The reciever command (Look for Pass) is crucial. It seems to direct where the QB looks to throw it. From what I have seen the QB throws it to the deepest reciever that is currently looking for a pass when he starts his read progression (assuming you don't have a primary target designated). To get plays to work I have used several "look for pass" commands on the same reciver.

I am not having a problem getting the ball to the reciever, more of an issue of the QB and how he goes through his progression (see my post in the PDS forum). I find the problem to be that the QB will throw to that deepest reciever whether he is fully covered or not leaving a wide open man standing. Intelligence rating only seems to speed up how fast he gets rid of the ball at the start of his read.

_____________________________

"Those who do not read and understand history are doomed to repeat it." - Harry Truman

(in reply to Magnum357)
Post #: 9
RE: The PDS could really use some work... - 3/7/2006 1:17:58 AM   
Magnum357

 

Posts: 613
Joined: 4/22/2005
Status: offline 		Hey Mark, you say that you assign several "Look for pass" commands to the designated receiver, are all those commands in one spot where you want the receiver to catch the ball, or do you assign them to multiple spots along the way of the Receivers route? Also, do you always have your Designated Receiver Button selected, or do you sometime keep it blank?

(in reply to mark1726)
Post #: 10
RE: The PDS could really use some work... - 3/7/2006 1:27:58 AM   
BCtheQB


Posts: 174
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: BCtheQB
Status: offline 		I have used look for pass logic at every new logic box, then follow up with a subsequent move to command to get ot the next point.
i m still having major problems getting the QB to wait for a10+ yd route to develop, he is consistently rifling the ball directly at the the backside of receivers helmets, even with a 2.0 sec wait,
the short game is pretty easy, but Im struggling for anything deeper, and youre right, VS AIR your QB should be hitting a 90% clip, unless its a timing route, in which case the timing should be adjusted, but your not alone, someone will have a breakthru or narrow it down to exactly what can be tweaked,

Im also finding that if you have a short breaking route, the WRs creep off the LOS, wheres an initial movement path of 5-10 yds, has the wr break off the line faster.
but on a lot of passes, the qb is standing in the pocket after a drop, and executing a 2 second wait, and the receivers are ALMOST 5 yds downfield

keep plugging

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(in reply to Magnum357)
Post #: 11
RE: The PDS could really use some work... - 3/7/2006 1:46:06 AM   
Magnum357

 

Posts: 613
Joined: 4/22/2005
Status: offline 		Ya, I have notice that aswell with some receivers with short pass routes, they seem to accelerate VERY slow off the line. For example, I designed a simple 8 Man Pass Play (I sent it to you Erik just too let you know) on a 100 yard feild, the primary Receiver only moves downfeild about 5 yards and then has a "Look for pass" logic, but he moves VERY slowly initially like he has little acceleration. Its hard to tell, but either the acceleration for players off the line with short Pass routes is screwed up, or the Receiver in my play is being held up by a "Ghost" defender (like a Linebacker that isn't suppose to be there) that is slowing him down some. Granted, I probably should be designing my plays under only 11 man football rules, but I wanted to experiment with 8 man Football on a 100 yard feild aswell.

I don't know if this is a bug, but David might want too look to see if there is an acceleration problem with receivers if there Pass routes are very short versus very long pass routes. Again, I didn't test this with Arena Rules, I was testing this with American, 100 yard rules with 8 Players.

(in reply to BCtheQB)
Post #: 12
RE: The PDS could really use some work... - 3/7/2006 2:47:04 AM   
Sonny

 

Posts: 2008
Joined: 4/3/2002
Status: offline 		I think (but have no data to support it) that the receiver moves slower when he is looking for a pass.

_____________________________

Quote from Snigbert -

"If you mess with the historical accuracy, you're going to have ahistorical outcomes."

"I'll say it again for Sonny's sake: If you mess with historical accuracy, you're going to have
ahistorical outcomes. "

(in reply to Magnum357)
Post #: 13
RE: The PDS could really use some work... - 3/7/2006 4:46:00 AM   
Breeze

 

Posts: 324
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Cherry Hill, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		The acceleration problem is the same problem that causes your kick returner to wade through molasses on his way out of the end zone, or your quarterback to get sacked every time he rolls and stops because he can't get moving again.

(in reply to Sonny)
Post #: 14
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