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8-man outdoor? - 3/10/2006 1:57:23 AM   
Skycast

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 2/28/2006
Status: offline 		I've been playing a little 8 man football on a US outdoor field and man is it a blast...talk about wide open!

Anyway, the only drawback is out of the gate there isn't any provision for an 8 man team to punt the ball and for the life of me I can't figure out how to make a punt play for an 8 man team. Any help here?

On a related note, I knew I wanted an 8 man league to play and figured it would be indoor, but after goofing around with this I may be change my mind. It's a blast.
Post #: 1
RE: 8-man outdoor? - 3/10/2006 3:56:06 AM   
David Winter

 

Posts: 5158
Joined: 11/24/2004
From: Vancouver, BC
Status: offline 		Hi.

Right now you can't put punts into an 8 man playbook or even design them for that matter. This is as designed and was intended to prevent punts from being used with indoor rule sets. (where normally 8 man takes place). Allowing punts indoors introduced a large number of problems, and as there are no punts in any indoor league I know of, I felt dropping that ability all together was the best solution.

But as you have found, punting out doors with 8 man rules is also not available.

(in reply to Skycast)
Post #: 2
RE: 8-man outdoor? - 3/10/2006 4:13:15 AM   
Skycast

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 2/28/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks for the reply David, could this work with "live" field goals that can be returned?

(in reply to David Winter)
Post #: 3
RE: 8-man outdoor? - 3/10/2006 4:33:22 AM   
Marauders

 

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: offline 		Try live field goals and add the rouge while you're at it!

I was goofing around with 8 man on a large field in beta, but I was trying to break it for bugs rather than play a full game. It was a like a pick up game on a high school practice field.

(in reply to Skycast)
Post #: 4
RE: 8-man outdoor? - 3/10/2006 5:06:10 AM   
Tbird


Posts: 1187
Joined: 12/15/2004
Status: offline 		Tried with live field goals and rogues
it still won't start up :(

I don't mind not punting. Both teams we're moving the ball pretty well

_____________________________


http://www.thornbird.net/downloads/maximum-football/maximum-football-downloads.htm

(in reply to Marauders)
Post #: 5
RE: 8-man outdoor? - 3/10/2006 6:44:16 AM   
Skycast

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 2/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tbird
I don't mind not punting. Both teams we're moving the ball pretty well


I've been creating some plays and doing some more outdoor 8-man and it's great. They are moving the ball nicely and no punting is a big incentive to not always go for the big play. Overall, I'm liking it!

(in reply to Tbird)
Post #: 6
RE: 8-man outdoor? - 3/10/2006 7:13:16 AM   
Marauders

 

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: offline 		This is how I set up the 8 man outdoor game:

Go into the 8-man playbook at set field goals to 99 yards from goal posts. If you do not, you will not be able to kick (punt). If you do, not only can you kick the ball from any place, but the computer will use field goals to punt too!

Set League to Indoor.

Use US-2 field for skinny hashmarks.

Turn end line goal posts off.

I turn on rouge ... it adds an extra element to the game.

Set kick off from the 30.

Use 12 minute quarters.


Maybe we should start an 8-man League!

(in reply to Skycast)
Post #: 7
RE: 8-man outdoor? - 3/10/2006 7:37:41 AM   
Tbird


Posts: 1187
Joined: 12/15/2004
Status: offline 		There's no option for 12 minute quarters.

I tried everything else
still no go I probably have to start my league from scratch

I'll try that later

_____________________________


http://www.thornbird.net/downloads/maximum-football/maximum-football-downloads.htm

(in reply to Marauders)
Post #: 8
RE: 8-man outdoor? - 3/10/2006 8:37:09 AM   
Marauders

 

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: offline
quote:

There's no option for 12 minute quarters.


It is the third field under Clock.

(in reply to Tbird)
Post #: 9
RE: 8-man outdoor? - 3/10/2006 9:37:22 AM   
Tbird


Posts: 1187
Joined: 12/15/2004
Status: offline 		Not there I hope this is not a bug :(



_____________________________


http://www.thornbird.net/downloads/maximum-football/maximum-football-downloads.htm

(in reply to Marauders)
Post #: 10
RE: 8-man outdoor? - 3/10/2006 12:16:55 PM   
Magnum357

 

Posts: 613
Joined: 4/22/2005
Status: offline 		I"ve been wanting to make an 8-man Outdoor league aswell, but with no punting, it leads to problems. I don't have a problem using Feildgoal Kicking as a way to "Punt" though. In the State I live in, 8 Man Football is fairly popular with small Highschools.

That is strange that the Utility doesn't come with 12 Minute Quarters. I know you can set them inside the game though.

(in reply to Tbird)
Post #: 11
RE: 8-man outdoor? - 3/10/2006 3:36:28 PM   
Skycast

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 2/28/2006
Status: offline 		I've been playing with 10 minute quarters with good results. I'll have to try the 99 yard field goal deal to simulate punts.

I'd be up for an 8-man outdoor league.

(in reply to Magnum357)
Post #: 12
RE: 8-man outdoor? - 3/10/2006 5:12:22 PM   
VCFL Commish


Posts: 518
Joined: 2/28/2006
Status: offline 		Sounds pretty cool the idea of 8 man outdoor football.By the way i posted above in 3rd part how to set it to 12 minute quarters.
I would think you could class anything 50 yards or more as punt if you were doing kicking stats.It wouldn`t be perfect but it would give the kicker a better ATT/MDE ratio.
When you guys are playing 8 man outdoor are you using 3 downs?

(in reply to Skycast)
Post #: 13
RE: 8-man outdoor? - 3/10/2006 5:22:35 PM   
Marauders

 

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: offline
quote:

Not there I hope this is not a bug :(


I see. I was using 12 minute quarters in quick play. For some reason a league cannot have 12 minute quarters. 10 minute quarters are fine. The game gets a bit long with 15 minute quarters.

I would like to experiment using unlimited motion plays designed for this format. I think it would be wide open and high scoring.

In real 8-man rules, the field is more thin and is usually 80 yards long. There is no rouge and there isn't unlimited motion, but I like those rules. I am not sure how well the rouge works though with the American field. I did score one off a missed kick, but I thought another one should have been scored, and it was not.



(in reply to Tbird)
Post #: 14
RE: 8-man outdoor? - 3/10/2006 5:24:28 PM   
Skycast

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 2/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VCFL Commish

Sounds pretty cool the idea of 8 man outdoor football.By the way i posted above in 3rd part how to set it to 12 minute quarters.
I would think you could class anything 50 yards or more as punt if you were doing kicking stats.It wouldn`t be perfect but it would give the kicker a better ATT/MDE ratio.
When you guys are playing 8 man outdoor are you using 3 downs?


I think 10 minute quarters work just fine and would prefer those; it gives you enough time to mount good drives and have decent scores without it getting too crazy. So far I have been playing with 4 downs so you can have the running game contribute to the mix. I think 3 downs would be fun, but it would be a much more wide open and different game.

As for stats, not that big a deal really, but it would be nice to have them seperated. I also notice that kick returns get added to the rushing stats.

I'm going to start work on some 8-man plays to the outdoor field.

(in reply to VCFL Commish)
Post #: 15
RE: 8-man outdoor? - 3/10/2006 5:25:38 PM   
Marauders

 

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: offline
quote:

When you guys are playing 8 man outdoor are you using 3 downs?


I have been using 4 downs and a 30 second play clock.

(in reply to VCFL Commish)
Post #: 16
RE: 8-man outdoor? - 3/10/2006 5:36:36 PM   
Skycast

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 2/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marauders

quote:

When you guys are playing 8 man outdoor are you using 3 downs?


I have been using 4 downs and a 30 second play clock.


Same exact setup here; but now I'm gonna turn the rouge on too.

(in reply to Marauders)
Post #: 17
RE: 8-man outdoor? - 3/10/2006 5:53:49 PM   
Marauders

 

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: offline 		I created a couple unlimited motion plays. Man, that is too wicked!

In real 8-man, there has to be five men on the line and three in the backfield with American rules motion. Of course, there is no rouge and the goal post is not on the goal line.

With the rouge, unlimited motion, a standard US-2 field and a 30 second play clock, the game is more like field hand ball because it is fast moving and high scoring. It is a hybrid game.

(in reply to Skycast)
Post #: 18
RE: 8-man outdoor? - 3/10/2006 5:58:16 PM   
Marauders

 

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: offline 		By the way, it may be a good idea to set up an eight man outdoor playbook.

To start, create a new playbook.

Then go to 8-man.pbk and make an export file.

Open the new created playbook and import the 8-man export file. That way any new plays will not mess up the indoor rules and the field goal can be set to 99 yards permanently.

If unlimited backfield motion and five men on the line are enforced, then some of the Arena plays will have to be deleted and some modified. It depends on what the standard hybrid rules will end up being.

(in reply to Marauders)
Post #: 19
RE: 8-man outdoor? - 3/10/2006 6:01:54 PM   
Skycast

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 2/28/2006
Status: offline 		I just setup a new Eight Man Out playbook and am starting to develop plays with this in mind; starting with the kicking game. I haven't tried anything with unlimited backfield motion yet...that sounds wicked.

Perhaps we should come up with a common ruleset for this hybrid game so we can be designing plays within the same parameters.

(in reply to Marauders)
Post #: 20
RE: 8-man outdoor? - 3/10/2006 6:18:20 PM   
Marauders

 

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: offline 		I created a punt play for 8 man! Yeah!

I'll post it with some eight man outdoor plays once we figure what ruleset we want to go with for this hybrid.

quote:

Perhaps we should come up with a common ruleset for this hybrid game so we can be designing plays within the same parameters.


I agree. Lets take some feedback on this from those interested.

I would say if we do unlimited backfield motion, we would need five men on the line as a rule. I am not sure if unlimited motion would create AI problems, so we'll have to test that.

10 minute quarters with 4 downs and 30 second clock are what we have been playing with, but that isn't set in stone either. Did anyone here try 3 downs? With a punt, that is an option.

(in reply to Skycast)
Post #: 21
RE: 8-man outdoor? - 3/10/2006 6:24:30 PM   
Tbird


Posts: 1187
Joined: 12/15/2004
Status: offline 		Awesome you da man Marauders can't wait for that

What size roster do you guys use
I used the 20 man rosters it's so much easier to manage

< Message edited by Tbird -- 3/10/2006 6:56:28 PM >

_____________________________


http://www.thornbird.net/downloads/maximum-football/maximum-football-downloads.htm

(in reply to Marauders)
Post #: 22
RE: 8-man outdoor? - 3/10/2006 6:30:04 PM   
Marauders

 

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: offline
quote:

I used the 20 man rosters it's so much easier to manage


I didn't set up a league yet, but 20 man rosters looks to be the sane way to go.


(in reply to Tbird)
Post #: 23
RE: 8-man outdoor? - 3/10/2006 6:36:56 PM   
Skycast

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 2/28/2006
Status: offline 		Here's my two cents:

Field Size: US-2 (this is the historical close hashes correct?)
Downs: 4
Fair Catch: No
End Line Goals: Yes
Unlimited Motion: No
Live Field Goals: Yes
Rouge: Yes
2 Point Converts: Yes

Max Players: 8
Ball: US
Referee Style: Loose
Penalties: US
Overtime: 10
Kickoff From: 25
PAT From: 5
Two Point From: 5
Timeouts: 2

TD: 6
PAT: 1
FG: 3
Safety: 2

Play Clock: 30
Minute Warning: 2
Quarter Length: 10

Rosters: 20

Offense Parameters: 5 men on LOS; 1 man in motion only
Defense Parameters: 3 men pass rushing max

< Message edited by Skycast -- 3/10/2006 6:37:13 PM >

(in reply to Tbird)
Post #: 24
RE: 8-man outdoor? - 3/10/2006 7:47:42 PM   
David Winter

 

Posts: 5158
Joined: 11/24/2004
From: Vancouver, BC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marauders

I created a punt play for 8 man! Yeah!

I'll post it with some eight man outdoor plays once we figure what ruleset we want to go with for this hybrid.

quote:

Perhaps we should come up with a common ruleset for this hybrid game so we can be designing plays within the same parameters.


I agree. Lets take some feedback on this from those interested.

I would say if we do unlimited backfield motion, we would need five men on the line as a rule. I am not sure if unlimited motion would create AI problems, so we'll have to test that.

10 minute quarters with 4 downs and 30 second clock are what we have been playing with, but that isn't set in stone either. Did anyone here try 3 downs? With a punt, that is an option.


How exactly did you create a punt for 8 man rules?

This is very likely to break things when people try to use this playbook indoors.

(in reply to Marauders)
Post #: 25
RE: 8-man outdoor? - 3/10/2006 7:48:34 PM   
David Winter

 

Posts: 5158
Joined: 11/24/2004
From: Vancouver, BC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tbird

Not there I hope this is not a bug :(



Yep.. I'll make sure that's added to the utilities to match what's in the game.

(in reply to Tbird)
Post #: 26
RE: 8-man outdoor? - 3/11/2006 1:18:52 AM   
Skycast

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 2/28/2006
Status: offline 		Well, I created a league to play around with here (my first) and created a new playbook with the field goal set to 99 yards. When I get to that play though, I get an error that crashes MaxFB.

(in reply to David Winter)
Post #: 27
RE: 8-man outdoor? - 3/11/2006 3:25:59 AM   
Marauders

 

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: offline
quote:

Well, I created a league to play around with here (my first) and created a new playbook with the field goal set to 99 yards. When I get to that play though, I get an error that crashes MaxFB.


Does both the offense and defense have the same setting? Do both have the 99 yard setting in their playbooks?

I have played this several times in quick play with both teams having the same playbook, and there was no trouble.

I will certainly have to check the punt for trouble though, and I would NOT use the indoor playbook with any hybrid league, as it could mess up the indoor league AI. A new playbook with imported plays is a must. If the punt works correctly, there will be no need for field goals longer than the usual ones to be set.


< Message edited by Marauders -- 3/11/2006 3:29:13 AM >

(in reply to Skycast)
Post #: 28
RE: 8-man outdoor? - 3/11/2006 9:37:12 AM   
Magnum357

 

Posts: 613
Joined: 4/22/2005
Status: offline 		So basically you are saying that a Punt "might" work if its imported into a new "8-man" playbook? I haven't messed with Punts yet so I don't know.

(in reply to Marauders)
Post #: 29
RE: 8-man outdoor? - 3/11/2006 6:17:26 PM   
Skycast

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 2/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marauders

quote:

Well, I created a league to play around with here (my first) and created a new playbook with the field goal set to 99 yards. When I get to that play though, I get an error that crashes MaxFB.


Does both the offense and defense have the same setting? Do both have the 99 yard setting in their playbooks?


Yes, both are using the same playbook with 99 yards as the setting.

(in reply to Marauders)
Post #: 30
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