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What's the significance of this? - 3/16/2006 4:23:57 AM

TheElf

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It may not be as obvious as you think...

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RE: What's the significance of this? - 3/16/2006 4:29:06 AM

dtravel

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I'm guessing it was the last F-14 being flown off a carrier before the model is retired.

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RE: What's the significance of this? - 3/16/2006 4:41:34 AM

MorbiusStorm

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Yes, that's an F-14. The FA-18 has its engines side by side in the center, without a gap between them.

It's not taking off, or it wouldn't be above the people. It would be on one of the cats with the blast shield up behind it. In this, its above them.

If its coming in for a landing, I'd say it missed the trajectory in the first place, and in the second he'd have run down a lot of people. Yet his landing gear is down.

He's doing some kind of intentional fly by or its a doctored picture (seems the most likely to me).

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RE: What's the significance of this? - 3/16/2006 4:50:31 AM

m10bob

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This looks like a "blown" landing and the plane is stalling out..Pilot has flaps extended to provide stol lift in this case with afterburner on full..
He is below the deck falling down.. (Hope he made it).

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RE: What's the significance of this? - 3/16/2006 4:58:17 AM

rogueusmc

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Hook is still up...don't look like a blown landing...

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RE: What's the significance of this? - 3/16/2006 5:02:10 AM

treespider

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Eloryn

Yes, that's an F-14. The FA-18 has its engines side by side in the center, without a gap between them.

It's not taking off, or it wouldn't be above the people. It would be on one of the cats with the blast shield up behind it. In this, its above them.

If its coming in for a landing, I'd say it missed the trajectory in the first place, and in the second he'd have run down a lot of people. Yet his landing gear is down.

He's doing some kind of intentional fly by or its a doctored picture (seems the most likely to me).

Why couldn't it be taking off from the angled flight deck?

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RE: What's the significance of this? - 3/16/2006 5:04:07 AM

jwilkerson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dtravel

I'm guessing it was the last F-14 being flown off a carrier before the model is retired.

I'm with dtravel, last Tomcat launch during an operational deployment.

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RE: What's the significance of this? - 3/16/2006 5:08:13 AM

tsimmonds

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I find it interesting that the heat from the afterburners is distorting the water but not the flight deck. This photo looks doctored to me....

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RE: What's the significance of this? - 3/16/2006 5:10:06 AM

rogueusmc

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ditto but someone already said they thought it was doctored.

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RE: What's the significance of this? - 3/16/2006 5:22:27 AM

MkXIV

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The photo REALLY looks bogus to me... but I am not an expert

Most (all?) Tomcat's still in service were either built with or re-engined with General Electrics, and are normally launched without afterburners. The orginal F-14 power By P&W's used afterburners to takeoff. I would would imagine GE powered planes still use AB for go arounds but I can't imagine he could get his hook up that fast. The other thing is look at the horizontal Stabs, they are too level. Look at any other Tomcat taking off and they are pointed almost straight down!

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RE: What's the significance of this? - 3/16/2006 5:28:32 AM

RevRick

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Nope.. Don't think it's bogus because if it was launched from the outboard waist cat, you wouldn't see the end of the cat from that shot. The 14 had a habit of dropping its butt, and you also don't realize just how big that bird really is. It looks foreshortend because of the size of the bird and the angle of the shot. Either that, or some really insane "aviator" is dragging the thing by low, slow, and dirty and is applying the burners to pull out and up.

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RE: What's the significance of this? - 3/16/2006 5:33:43 AM

TheElf

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RE: What's the significance of this? - 3/16/2006 5:34:48 AM

Dino

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I think irrelevat's observation is correct... Also, if you look closely, those guys on the deck are not looking at THAT plane.

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RE: What's the significance of this? - 3/16/2006 6:09:30 AM

ChezDaJez

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Great photo.

Let's see. Judging by the number of people with cameras by the angle deck, it's obviously a historic photo of some type.

Hook is up and flaps in the takeoff position so probably is a waist cat shot. Certainly not a landing... too many people in the area. A snapped arresting cable could potentially mow them down not to mention what would happen if the aircraft crashed.

Trying to vsiualize the tail emblem, I think it may be a panther (hard to tell) which would be VF-21 (Freelancers) onboard Independence in Japan. If so, it could be VF-21's last cat shot when they decommissioned in 1996.

-OR-

It could the last fly-off of a carrier being dsecommisioned, possibly Independence in 1998. Given the lack of tail letters, it might also represent CAG's bird during the last fly-off but most CAG birds I've seen are painted a little brighter than that.

-OR-

It could be that I haven't a clue as to what the picture represents and am just talking out my a$$.

Chez

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RE: What's the significance of this? - 3/16/2006 6:12:42 AM

ChezDaJez

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quote:

I find it interesting that the heat from the afterburners is distorting the water but not the flight deck. This photo looks doctored to me....

Good observation. Hadn't noticed that. Does look funny, doesn't it?

How about a REALLY low fly-by?

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RE: What's the significance of this? - 3/16/2006 6:50:32 AM

treespider

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Here is a different angle of the same event...

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RE: What's the significance of this? - 3/16/2006 7:12:33 AM

whippleofd

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It could be a doctored photo. Not sure about that. What I DO KNOW, is that it is not a photo of a shot or a trap.

Evidence:

1) See that thick line on the deck? The one with the thin line just inboard of it. Those are the stbd most lines that are painted on the deck to "outline" the angled deck landing area. This Tomcat is not landing as evidenced by there not being a tail-hook being extended.

2) This next "evidence" may be a bid hard to describe, as it can be hard to see, but I'll do my best. See the guy with a white vest on? The one with the red cross on his back who is standing just inboard and aft of the other one who is dressed the same. Now look at his shadow. Just inboard of his shadow is a line on the deck. That is the "safety line". No one, and I mean NO ONE, is allowed between that saftey line and the one to port (that you can't see) when a plane is soon to be launched or landed. The safety observers can , and WILL, scrub a launch or a trap if they see someone in that area. Look at the number of folks indside that line. Not even during "Tiger" cruise traps and shots are dependents allowed in there. This fact alone tells me that this pic is FUBAR.

3) Others have mentioned the disconnect of the jet wash, but I'm not sure of the camera angle.

4) No way, no how, are the deck crews lined up like that during either a shot or a trap. Thats just ASKING for a BOHICA.

Not a chance this pic is representative of either a trap or a shot.

Whipple

< Message edited by Whipple -- 3/16/2006 7:16:15 AM >

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RE: What's the significance of this? - 3/16/2006 7:29:48 AM

treespider

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The below accompanied the above photo I posted...and yes I Googled...

060310-N-6410T-016 Atlantic Ocean (March 10, 2006) � Lt. Ken Hockycko and Lt. Roy Emanuel, F-14D Tomcat pilots assigned to the "Black Lions" of Fighter Squadron Two One Three (VF-213), launch from the flight deck of USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN 71) in aircraft number 201. This marks the final launch of F-14 on deployment. VF-213 and VF-31 are completing their final deployment flying the F-14 Tomcat. For the past 30 years, the F-14 Tomcat has assured U.S. air superiority, playing a key role in ensuring victory and preserving peace around the world. The F-14 Tomcat will be removed from service and officially stricken from the inventory in September of 2006. U.S. Navy photo by Photographer's Mate 3rd Class Chris Thamann (RELEASED)

< Message edited by treespider -- 3/16/2006 7:43:09 AM >

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RE: What's the significance of this? - 3/16/2006 7:38:45 AM

Ian R

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I thought it was a collage involving this photo:

Then again maybe not.

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RE: What's the significance of this? - 3/16/2006 7:46:04 AM

Ian R

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Ah! now I have it: The F6F has already crashed:

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RE: What's the significance of this? - 3/16/2006 8:00:28 AM

whippleofd

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quote:

060310-N-6410T-016 Atlantic Ocean (March 10, 2006) � Lt. Ken Hockycko and Lt. Roy Emanuel, F-14D Tomcat pilots assigned to the "Black Lions" of Fighter Squadron Two One Three (VF-213), launch from the flight deck of USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN 71) in aircraft number 201. This marks the final launch of F-14 on deployment. VF-213 and VF-31 are completing their final deployment flying the F-14 Tomcat. For the past 30 years, the F-14 Tomcat has assured U.S. air superiority, playing a key role in ensuring victory and preserving peace around the world. The F-14 Tomcat will be removed from service and officially stricken from the inventory in September of 2006. U.S. Navy photo by Photographer's Mate 3rd Class Chris Thamann (RELEASED)

How the safety rules have been relaxed since I spent some time on the roof getting the sigs for my AW.

There was talk of pulling the Cat, but I didn't think they would do it. But I guess with the bomb-cat, it was bound to happen. Talk about "jumping the shark"! I don't know why, but hearing the demise of the F-14 makes me sad. She was just such an awesome machine. You can run, but you can't hide. (F-14 and E2C combo).

I thought it sucked when they retired the Intruder. That bad boy had SO MANY advantages over the F-18. Maybe it was just the noise she made on the deck. What a ear pierceing whine those engines made!

I guess the Backfire/Bear threat is gone, and the Navy needs to keep up with the times. But a CVN without F-14's? It's just not MY Navy.

Whipple

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RE: What's the significance of this? - 3/16/2006 8:04:01 AM

Ron Saueracker

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I'm getting old.

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RE: What's the significance of this? - 3/16/2006 8:18:18 AM

TheElf

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quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider

The below accompanied the above photo I posted...and yes I Googled...

060310-N-6410T-016 Atlantic Ocean (March 10, 2006) � Lt. Ken Hockycko and Lt. Roy Emanuel, F-14D Tomcat pilots assigned to the "Black Lions" of Fighter Squadron Two One Three (VF-213), launch from the flight deck of USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN 71) in aircraft number 201. This marks the final launch of F-14 on deployment. VF-213 and VF-31 are completing their final deployment flying the F-14 Tomcat. For the past 30 years, the F-14 Tomcat has assured U.S. air superiority, playing a key role in ensuring victory and preserving peace around the world. The F-14 Tomcat will be removed from service and officially stricken from the inventory in September of 2006. U.S. Navy photo by Photographer's Mate 3rd Class Chris Thamann (RELEASED)

Googling is cheating Forest...you're supposed to reason these things out.

You're right though. The significance of the photo is an end of an era. It is in fact the last Catshot of the Tomcat leaving the TR after the F-14s sundown deployment. No longer will US carriers deploy with Turkeys on board.

But I have to admit that even though I got this photo in my email at work from a first hand source some of your posts had me thinking it was a doctored photo...

But Kudos to DTravel for being the first and first correct reply (without googling).

I'll post a couple more photos from the set I got.

< Message edited by TheElf -- 3/16/2006 8:24:32 AM >

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RE: What's the significance of this? - 3/16/2006 8:22:50 AM

TheElf

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Here is the homecoming at NAS Oceana...

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RE: What's the significance of this? - 3/16/2006 8:29:46 AM

whippleofd

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*sigh* I need another San Miguale.

Time moves on, but my memories are anchored in the past.

Whipple

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RE: What's the significance of this? - 3/16/2006 8:31:29 AM

TheElf

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quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

I find it interesting that the heat from the afterburners is distorting the water but not the flight deck. This photo looks doctored to me....

The Tomcat has a tendency to squat when it rotates. Part of the sequence is that in order for the green shirts set the launch bar in the shuttle the Tomcat has to "Kneel". Anyone whose seen the F-14 Demo at an airshow has probably seen the plane point at the crowd and "bow". This is actually a hydraulic function designed to help the big aircraft set the proper takeof attitude at the end of a cat stroke.

The effect at the end of the cat stroke is that after leaving the shuttle the nosewheel if popped up and as a result so is the nose. The plane rotates and the a$$-end squats as illustrated in the photo. This foeces the exhaust below the deck edge and creates the illusion in this photo that you speak of.

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RE: What's the significance of this? - 3/16/2006 8:31:43 AM

whippleofd

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Brings tears to this ol squids eyes that picture does.

Whipple

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RE: What's the significance of this? - 3/16/2006 8:39:46 AM

TheElf

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MkXIV

The photo REALLY looks bogus to me... but I am not an expert

Most (all?) Tomcat's still in service were either built with or re-engined with General Electrics, and are normally launched without afterburners. The orginal F-14 power By P&W's used afterburners to takeoff. I would would imagine GE powered planes still use AB for go arounds but I can't imagine he could get his hook up that fast. The other thing is look at the horizontal Stabs, they are too level. Look at any other Tomcat taking off and they are pointed almost straight down!

Normally I'd say you are right, but consider the gravity of this moment. F-14Bs and Ds are reengined with the GE-110s, and normally do not stroke blower down the cat. This is due to the fact that the newer motors should one be snuffed on takeoff, are so powerful and far apart that the assymetrical thrust makes recovery of the aircraft nearly impossible. That and they have enough thrust at military. It may even be a NATOPS limitation, but I'm not sure.

More than likely one of two things happened...

1) Permission was requested at some lower level and CAG granted it,

or

2) Seeing as how the aircraft was crewed by two intrepid JOs, they just did it and figured it was better to ask forgiveness. I'm betting noone said anything after the fact.

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RE: What's the significance of this? - 3/16/2006 8:49:22 AM

dtravel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheElf

But Kudos to DTravel for being the first and first correct reply (without googling).

The retirement of the Tomcat is being discussed in a Usenet group I read. The timing of that and your photo post made it seem a reasonable guess.

I have to admit I don't understand why the Navy is retiring the F-14. The FA-18 may be smaller and a more nimble dogfighter but it strikes more as an interceptor, not an air-superiority fighter. It just doesn't have the same oomph saying "This is MY sky!".

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RE: What's the significance of this? - 3/16/2006 8:51:32 AM

TheElf

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Whipple

1) See that thick line on the deck? The one with the thin line just inboard of it. Those are the stbd most lines that are painted on the deck to "outline" the angled deck landing area. This Tomcat is not landing as evidenced by there not being a tail-hook being extended.

2) This next "evidence" may be a bid hard to describe, as it can be hard to see, but I'll do my best. See the guy with a white vest on? The one with the red cross on his back who is standing just inboard and aft of the other one who is dressed the same. Now look at his shadow. Just inboard of his shadow is a line on the deck. That is the "safety line". No one, and I mean NO ONE, is allowed between that saftey line and the one to port (that you can't see) when a plane is soon to be launched or landed. The safety observers can , and WILL, scrub a launch or a trap if they see someone in that area. Look at the number of folks indside that line. Not even during "Tiger" cruise traps and shots are dependents allowed in there. This fact alone tells me that this pic is FUBAR.

3) Others have mentioned the disconnect of the jet wash, but I'm not sure of the camera angle.

4) No way, no how, are the deck crews lined up like that during either a shot or a trap. Thats just ASKING for a BOHICA.

Not a chance this pic is representative of either a trap or a shot.

Whipple

The lines you speak of are Foul lines, and you are right about the seriousness of "fouling them". However, in this photo there are three of them. From left to right:

The line that touches the tops of the two greenshirts, the purpleshirt, and Yellow shirt in the bottom left hand corner and runs through the middle of the LA (Landing Area) is the Starboard-most edge of CAT 4(the Port-most Cat)

The middle foul line, the one everyone is toeing in the pic is the Foul-line for Cat 3 (the inboard of the two waist cats)

The rightmost or inboard Foul line is for the LA.

Since this is a launch evolution the LA foul line is not enforced. Because the crowd is toeing the middle Fouline of the three, you can deduce this aircraft is launching from Cat 3.

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