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Kicking distances... - 3/29/2006 5:49:23 PM   
Rottweiler69


Posts: 46
Joined: 3/29/2006
Status: offline 		I have only played quick games but have found that every kicker in a 10 team league (random draft) is inadequate. Kickoff's only go about 30 yards, punts go about 25 yards or so. Field goals are missed if they are over 20 yards because they are too short. I knew a middle school kicker who could make a 35 yard field goal. I searched for this but couldn't find any substantial post on it. Thanks
Post #: 1
RE: Kicking distances... - 3/29/2006 5:53:57 PM   
Lucas718

 

Posts: 228
Joined: 3/4/2006
Status: offline 		I've noticed that when the game auto-creates a team's roster, it usually does not create a punter. QBs end up doing the punting and that is why punts usually only go 15-20 yards. Kickers for some reason are not much better on kickoffs. All kickoffs seem to come down around the 20 yard line, whereas in real life most would come down inside the 10 or even in the end zone.

(in reply to Rottweiler69)
Post #: 2
RE: Kicking distances... - 3/29/2006 7:08:09 PM   
Marauders

 

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: offline
quote:

All kickoffs seem to come down around the 20 yard line, whereas in real life most would come down inside the 10 or even in the end zone.


This may be to make sure that kick offs work in all three formats. A sixty yard kick off on a fifty yard field would not work so well. The key question is if the net kick is where it should be after the return.

It would be nice to have some sort of field modification of kicking strength, but I am not sure if anything like that is in the game or in the works.

(in reply to Lucas718)
Post #: 3
RE: Kicking distances... - 3/29/2006 9:31:04 PM   
JonnieR

 

Posts: 108
Joined: 8/19/2005
Status: offline 		KickOffs are too short in most cases, only going 40 - 50 yards. I believe the kicking str rating relates to field goals and not Kick Offs, since 40 50 yards is max distance for the average kicker for field goal. On kick offs an average kicker with get 60-70 yards. Perhaps David could change the formula for calculating kick offs, like taking the field goal formula and adding 20 yards.

(in reply to Rottweiler69)
Post #: 4
RE: Kicking distances... - 3/29/2006 11:03:09 PM   
David Winter

 

Posts: 5158
Joined: 11/24/2004
From: Vancouver, BC
Status: offline 		A consideration, as Marauders has pointed out, has to do with trying to make the kick offs work on all field sizes. The AFL has the advantage of nets on the back of the field so that when the ball is kicked off, it is a 60+ yard kick off but the nets bounce the ball back into play and the KR can do his thing. Unforunately Maximum-Football can't use nets so if the ball is kicked that hard, the kick would go out the back of the endzone resulting in the ball coming out to the 5 all the time.

The solution I propose is to scale the kickoff strength to the size of the field being played on. This is going to introduce a few oddities however because a place kicker on an indoor field with, say a, 95 kicking strength skill will only ever be able to kick the ball 45 or so yards on an indoor field. Yet that same kicker, when taken to an out door field will be able to kick a 60+ yard kick off. The kicking strength will scale to match the field. I'm certainly okay with that but I would think it will be confusing to others when their kicker gets drastically different results on different fields. What do people think?

(in reply to JonnieR)
Post #: 5
RE: Kicking distances... - 3/29/2006 11:49:08 PM   
Rottweiler69


Posts: 46
Joined: 3/29/2006
Status: offline 		Is it possible to cap strength ratings on arena kickers only? I am partial to outdoor stuff because I'm not much of an arena fan. But we have to keep everyone happy. All I know is the average start for all of my games in quick play so far has been the 50 yard line. Consistently excellent field position drastically changes the game for the worse.Now that I have thoroughly confused everyone, maybe there should be a "POSSIBLE CHANGES FOR NEXT PATCH" post.

(in reply to David Winter)
Post #: 6
RE: Kicking distances... - 3/30/2006 1:09:26 AM   
Shaggyra


Posts: 608
Joined: 2/10/2006
Status: offline 		I don't know if this is voting thing or not, but I would vote for scaling it to the size of the field.

Any kicker would know that he would have to take a little off inside vs outside. Thus this kicker would be "scaling" it inside his own head.

_____________________________

FBMax for Maximum Football

(in reply to David Winter)
Post #: 7
RE: Kicking distances... - 3/30/2006 2:37:23 AM   
David Winter

 

Posts: 5158
Joined: 11/24/2004
From: Vancouver, BC
Status: offline 		That's sort of the line of thinking I had too...

(in reply to Shaggyra)
Post #: 8
RE: Kicking distances... - 3/30/2006 2:40:46 AM   
Lucas718

 

Posts: 228
Joined: 3/4/2006
Status: offline 		If we're voting on this then I would also like to see it scaled proportionately to the field size.

(in reply to David Winter)
Post #: 9
RE: Kicking distances... - 3/30/2006 3:21:34 AM   
Magnum357

 

Posts: 613
Joined: 4/22/2005
Status: offline 		Hey David, I should have brought up this discussion before in previous builds of the games, but I didn't because I knew you have more serious bug problems at the time. But I would like to point out that Kickoffs and Feildgoal Kicking still need some work.

For my vote, I definitly agree with you about your idea of scaling the distance of Kickoffs due to Feild size. To my knowlege, Real World Indoor League Kickers (not Arena League) have to kick there Kickoffs short because if they kick the ball out of bounds, it results in a major of penelty to the Kicking team (most leagues have the ball spotted on the 25 yard line as a penelty). This forces kickers to usually kick short on Kickoff attempts in Real World Indoor Leagues, but I do realize that this Penelty is not issued in the game so its not a real factor on Kickoffs.

But David, if you do scale the Kickoffs due to Feild Size, I would highly recommend NOT scaling the Feildgoal Place Kicking Distance due to Feild size. In almost all Indoor leagues (not Arena) there are no penelties for Kicking Place Kicks out of bounds. Usually, if a Place Kick is kicked out of Bounds, the other team just gets it at there own 5 yard line. So most of the time, Indoor League Kickers just try to boot it as far as they can just like in the Outdoor leagues.

(in reply to Lucas718)
Post #: 10
RE: Kicking distances... - 3/30/2006 3:50:26 AM   
Breeze

 

Posts: 324
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Cherry Hill, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		Maybe adjust the kickoff meter for indoor so that even if you kick it full power, it only goes to the indorr endzone.

I dunno, I'm just trying to think of how you can cap kickoff strength without capping field goal strength. Because Magnum is right about field goals not being capped.

(in reply to Magnum357)
Post #: 11
RE: Kicking distances... - 3/30/2006 3:52:57 AM   
David Winter

 

Posts: 5158
Joined: 11/24/2004
From: Vancouver, BC
Status: offline 		The kick off meter is an arcade only device. And even in arcade mode, the kicking meter is simply a modifier to the base kicking strength used in coaching mode as well.

Adding a scale factor to the base kicking strength for the league sizes seems fairly doable and I'll try and get that into the next beta.

< Message edited by David Winter -- 3/30/2006 3:54:18 AM >

(in reply to Breeze)
Post #: 12
RE: Kicking distances... - 3/30/2006 4:00:05 AM   
Magnum357

 

Posts: 613
Joined: 4/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Winter

Adding a scale factor to the base kicking strength for the league sizes seems fairly doable and I'll try and get that into the next beta.


League sizes? I assume you mean Feild Sizes right David? And Like I and Breeze said above, I would highly recommend NOT having Place Kicks adjusted due to Feild size. Indoor Kickers usually try to Boot as far as they can on Place Kicks just like Outdoor Kickers.

(in reply to David Winter)
Post #: 13
RE: Kicking distances... - 3/30/2006 5:38:38 AM   
David Winter

 

Posts: 5158
Joined: 11/24/2004
From: Vancouver, BC
Status: offline 		What I've done is scale the kicks to the distance from the kicking point to the defensive goal line rather than just simply the field size. I had to do it this way because the game allows you to put the ball on various yardlines from the goal to centrefield for kick offs. So, the kicker is now 'smart enough' to kick the ball as close to the opposition goal as he can regardless of the size of field he's kicking on.

So far the testing seems to work pretty well.

Field goals are the kicker just kicking as hard as he can regardless of field size.

(in reply to Magnum357)
Post #: 14
RE: Kicking distances... - 3/30/2006 5:39:13 PM   
Sonny

 

Posts: 2008
Joined: 4/3/2002
Status: offline 		Sounds good to me.

_____________________________

Quote from Snigbert -

"If you mess with the historical accuracy, you're going to have ahistorical outcomes."

"I'll say it again for Sonny's sake: If you mess with historical accuracy, you're going to have
ahistorical outcomes. "

(in reply to David Winter)
Post #: 15
RE: Kicking distances... - 3/31/2006 2:09:23 AM   
Magnum357

 

Posts: 613
Joined: 4/22/2005
Status: offline 		sounds good to me too David. Good idea to use the Goal Line instead of Feild sizes to determine the Intended Kick spot of Kickoff attempts.

(in reply to Sonny)
Post #: 16
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