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RE: Allied naval forces in the SRA

 
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RE: Allied naval forces in the SRA - 3/31/2006 2:47:46 PM   
Terminus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: String

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

There's still a fair way until you have American land forces capable of an opposed landing at Kwajalein, though...


How long before he has 1st and 2nd USMC operational? Imho they are both ready to move in january-february.


Erm, 2nd Marines start in San Diego with 35% disablement, and 1st Marines doesn't even arrive until May 1942.

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Post #: 31
RE: Allied naval forces in the SRA - 3/31/2006 2:48:00 PM   
Andy Mac

 

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Maybe dismount some RN Sqns to simulate FAA Cap over the island as well.

Unless your mod has a major deception plan that few aircraft on CAP is weird

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Post #: 32
RE: Allied naval forces in the SRA - 3/31/2006 2:48:02 PM   
String


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alikchi

quote:

There's still a fair way until you have American land forces capable of an opposed landing at Kwajalein, though...


Point. I think I could scrape together 2nd USMC Div (if I used up all my PPs - it starts at San Diego, I believe), a couple of RCTs, and a Marine Defence Bn. Not exactly awe-inspiring force.

Probably I'll play it safe and garrison the convoy route to Australia - Palmyra, Canton, Papaete, et cetera.. but you never know.



No No No. Strike now. Strike fast and strike hard!!!!

ADM String T. Agression 98


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Post #: 33
RE: Allied naval forces in the SRA - 3/31/2006 2:48:50 PM   
String


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: String

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

There's still a fair way until you have American land forces capable of an opposed landing at Kwajalein, though...


How long before he has 1st and 2nd USMC operational? Imho they are both ready to move in january-february.


Erm, 2nd Marines start in San Diego with 35% disablement, and 1st Marines doesn't even arrive until May 1942.


Well he could take a division off Hawaii..

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Post #: 34
RE: Allied naval forces in the SRA - 3/31/2006 2:51:46 PM   
Terminus


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You really want him to attack, huh? You're not secretly in league with Feurer, are you?

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Post #: 35
RE: Allied naval forces in the SRA - 3/31/2006 2:53:32 PM   
Andy Mac

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

This could be a problem I think if IJN are going to hit Singers which with the strength of RN fleet they will as its the only place you can be sure of hitting CV's I think you have to have surprise off otherwise its unfair also more of available fighters covering the harbour....

IJN fleet getting that close undetected to all those veteran ships at anchor doing what the RN did to the Italians at Taranto with Cunningham in charge not to mention Park its nuts.

Surprise off as standard in future methinks and CAP at high levels for RAF.

p.s I also would start with at least part of the RN force in transit to Singers not in the harbour itself otherwise they are sitting ducks.

p.p.s. Have some allied ships in a TF in harbour to increase AA of base at start or ban Betty Attacks in turn 1 launching torps at Singers

Nice AAR !!!


Or move in some Maltese veteran ack Ack gunners to keep the pesky bombers away !!!!!

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Post #: 36
RE: Allied naval forces in the SRA - 3/31/2006 2:54:28 PM   
String


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

You really want him to attack, huh? You're not secretly in league with Feurer, are you?


Nope, but the garrison beeline to australia is such an old and boring tactic. With the KB tied to Malaya (if he leaves then he will be in trouble) the opportunity for an early offensive is very good.

edit: Oh and it's a playtest too, why not explore every opportunity

< Message edited by String -- 3/31/2006 2:55:17 PM >

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Post #: 37
RE: Allied naval forces in the SRA - 3/31/2006 3:01:33 PM   
Alikchi2

 

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Good God I'm getting a lot of response fast, thanks guys!

quote:

This could be a problem I think if IJN are going to hit Singers which with the strength of RN fleet they will as its the only place you can be sure of hitting CV's I think you have to have surprise off otherwise its unfair also more of available fighters covering the harbour....

IJN fleet getting that close undetected to all those veteran ships at anchor doing what the RN did to the Italians at Taranto with Cunningham in charge not to mention Park its nuts.

Surprise off as standard in future methinks and CAP at high levels for RAF.

p.s I also would start with at least part of the RN force in transit to Singers not in the harbour itself otherwise they are sitting ducks.

p.p.s. Have some allied ships in a TF in harbour to increase AA of base at start or ban Betty Attacks in turn 1 launching torps at Singers

Nice AAR !!!


First off thanks!

I've thought about leaving surprise off but honestly it would be unfair to the Japanese, since they would not get their normal bonus over Pearl and Clark - and Lexington is disbanded in port at Pearl to slightly counterbalance the two RN carriers at Singapore.

I think that the IJN doing to Singapore what it did to Pearl to be less likely than Pearl was but still a possibility.. remember, both the USN and the RN didn't know where the KB was until the bombs were falling at Pearl Harbour. I could see the KB sprinting into range of Singapore in the night and launching a "Pearl Harbor"-type strike at the crack of dawn, catching the RAF and RN by surprise.. I did not get to it yet in the AAR, but Park did launch a large counterstrike later in the day.

You were right about the RN forces in transit - the two battlecruisers were still on their way to Singapore on the 7th, so they're safe. I still have a couple of fast capital ships to contest the South China Sea with.

But I really don't think FK's strategy was unfair or unrealistic - the opposite, in fact.


quote:

you might have to mod your Iron Storm mod so that Attacking Singapore with the whole KB is not possible, only allowing an attack by the 2 CVs and 2CVLs from Camrahn Bay... Because it ruins the gameplay, it only provides Japan with free targets and lots of points on day one...Now he can just about encircle Malaya and then score lots of points killing all these extras LCUs... You might want to Make Singapore into the real Pearl Harbour : Leave there some old BBs and maybe the Ark, and pretend the other capital ships were on a training mission near the Adamans...

This is just a suggestion... I wish you luck in the SRA, and strongly recommend an immediate attack in the Marshalls...


Thanks Veiji! I know where you're coming from, but I'd like to leave it up to the players themselves as to what to do with the KB and what should be possible or not. If the Allied player thinks that a KB attack on Singapore is unlikely or unbalancing, then he can propose a house rule.. but I think the important thing is that I leave the players the option to make the choice and do whatever they want. Personally, I think I can still chew him up pretty badly..

But we will see!

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Post #: 38
RE: Allied naval forces in the SRA - 3/31/2006 3:05:04 PM   
Alikchi2

 

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Andy: Dismounting some FAA sqns is actually a pretty good idea. As for flak.. well, with the amount of troops I have available, Singapore is henceforth going to be hell for IJN bombers. The Nells were cut up pretty bad over the Naval Base.. now that December 7th Surprise has worn off, Park & Co will be ready.

String: I like your style I really can't say whether I've made up my mind one way or the other, but.. hmmmm...

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Post #: 39
RE: Allied naval forces in the SRA - 3/31/2006 3:39:58 PM   
String


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alikchi
String: I like your style I really can't say whether I've made up my mind one way or the other, but.. hmmmm...


Thankyou

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Post #: 40
12/7/41 continued - 3/31/2006 4:15:30 PM   
Alikchi2

 

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Well ya know what - it's 8:15 AM for me, but I'm still not tired.

Here's December 7th, part deux.

12/7/41 - Part Two

The Japanese winged away, and Park and Cunningham were left behind to pick up the pieces.

For Cunningham, it was a disaster. Five of his seven capital ships had been sunk by a surprise attack shockingly similar to the one he delivered at Taranto - except in scope. However, there was very little he could have done, given the information he had available. Even if Park had been able to launch all his Spitfires, and Cunningham all his Sea Hurricanes, it would have made very little difference, in the face of 450+ enemy combat aircraft. Cunningham's professional reputation would remain intact.

Park's airfields were virtually untouched after the attack, a source of embarrasment for him. In fact, Park was already on the warpath, venting his frustrations at not having detected the attack on every radar operator and Catalina pilot he could find. After the war, it was determined that very little could have been done - there simply was no thought that the Japanese would or could attack Singapore with so little warning. In the meantime, though, Park had to act. He hastily put together a counter-strike and launched it before firmly pinning down the location of the enemy force.


Air Marshal Park's impromptu attack in the KB.


The combined RAF-Coastal Command strike force found its way to the enemy fleet - and ran into a solid wall of Zeroes. Admiral Ozawa had held back most of his fighters for CAP. The Spitfires and Beaufighters fought gallantly, bringing down many enemy fighters, but most of them eventually succumbed to overwhelming enemy numbers. Still, 6 Blenheims and 10 Wellingtons were able to penetrate the CAP. No hits were scored.


A Blenheim IV of No.34 Squadron RAF makes a run on Kaga. You cannot comprehend how much I wanted him to hit.


As the remnants of the RAF force returned to base, events were developing elsewhere in the SRA. Farther north, at Victoria Point, Japanese paratroopers of the 1st Parachute Regiment captured Victoria Point's airfield and port facitlities in a stunning coup de main. Allied transports were scuttled in harbor. Air raids were made on Allied positions in Alor Star, Kota Bharu, Tavoy, and elsewhere in Southeast Asia.


Japanese paratroopers jump over Victoria Point. "Topsy" transports are visible.


In the Philippines, the situation was equally dreadful. Thanks to the personal and professional incompetence of General Douglas MacArthur (editor's note: can you tell I hate the bastard?), the USAAF at Clark Field was caught with most of its planes on the ground. The Japanese force included more than 50 of their new G5N1 "Liz" heavy bombers, the heavy bombload of which was devastating.


The attack on Clark Field. The airbase is effectively out of commission for the forseeable future.


Japanese landings were reported all over the Far East. Although the full extent of the landings is not yet known, Kuching, Legaspi, Davao, Tarakan, Brunei, Vigan, Dadjangas, Tacloban, and Hollandia confirmed being under attack by Japanese troops late on the seventh. Laoag, Lamon Bay, and Jesselton fell almost immediately. A huge swathe of territory in Borneo and the Philippines has already effectively fallen to the Japanese.

In the Pacific, the situation is similar. Although the USN under Admiral Kimmel is ready for action, is has been caught off guard. The enemy has launched a surprise offensive extending throughout the Pacific area, capturing Wake, Nauru, Tarawa, and Baker Islands, the last three without a single shot fired. Wake was hammered into submission. The coast defence guns were systematically knocked out by accurate bombardment from the 12" guns of the old battleship Settsu, apparently now converted into some sort of fire-support ship. The Japanese SNLF troopers landed under cover of a massive aerial bombardment from Kwajalein and overwhelmed the American defenders after a short, brutal struggle.


Betties of G1/ and G2/Chitose Daitai make their runs over Wake.


Allied commanders have been dumbfounded by the speed and scale of the Japanese victories. Admirals Kimmel, Cunningham, and Helfrich are still unsure as to how to act in these circumstances. The Allies can only hope they make up their minds, and quickly.


USS Constitution, a Constellation-class battlecruiser, sways idly in Pearl Harbor.


----

So ends December 7th! I will have stats on aircraft lost/ships sunk up ASAP. And I promise that following turns won't be nearly as wordy as this

One last thing. I'd like to point out how awesome the tops and the map look. I owe Ian (TheElf) a lot for doing some special tops for me. I will continue to show them off as much as possible.
Andrew's map, well, what more needs to be said - it looks sweet!

So kudos to both of them for making my game pretty

< Message edited by Alikchi -- 3/31/2006 4:20:16 PM >


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Post #: 41
RE: 12/7/41 continued - 3/31/2006 4:17:47 PM   
Terminus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alikchi

And I promise that following turns won't be nearly as wordy as this


Yeah, sure they won't!

187 Zeros on CAP! Yikes!

< Message edited by Terminus -- 3/31/2006 4:19:19 PM >


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Post #: 42
RE: 12/7/41 continued - 3/31/2006 4:21:41 PM   
Alikchi2

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Yeah, sure they won't!

187 Zeros on CAP! Yikes!


Okay, so maybe my AAR updates get a little long sometimes. December 7th was a watershed though! Once the turns get going.. and I get lazy.. it'll be easy reading for all

Yep, lots of Zeroes. If he's really combined all his carriers together, he's created some kind of Mega-Uber-Monstrosity KB that I cannot fully comprehend.

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Post #: 43
RE: 12/7/41 continued - 3/31/2006 4:22:42 PM   
Alikchi2

 

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PS - UK and Commonwealth fanboys never fear - Hood and the G3s are on their way...

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Post #: 44
RE: 12/7/41 continued - 3/31/2006 4:26:43 PM   
Terminus


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More air cover as well, hopefully...

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Post #: 45
RE: 12/7/41 continued - 3/31/2006 4:28:01 PM   
Terminus


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Definitely looks like an 8 + 2 KB...

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Post #: 46
RE: 12/7/41 continued - 3/31/2006 4:29:01 PM   
Rob Brennan UK


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Great AAR guys ! .. and as a RN fanboy im in tears at that attack ! yikes .

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Post #: 47
RE: 12/7/41 continued - 3/31/2006 4:33:44 PM   
Alikchi2

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

More air cover as well, hopefully...


Oh definitely.. Mr Churchill says at least two new CVs are on their way, to replace the ones I got sunk.

quote:

Great AAR guys ! .. and as a RN fanboy im in tears at that attack ! yikes .


Thanks! And I definitely know where you're coming from.. I had plans for those guys Stupid Feurer Krieg, sinking my stuff!

Anyways. The RN certainly isn't going to cave in yet although it has lost some of it's big names (I think I'm going to miss Warspite and Ark Royal the most, just on general principles). The battlecruisers are safe and are at this moment prowling the NEI, looking for unlucky Japanese shipping

Cunningham will bounce back, I think!

< Message edited by Alikchi -- 3/31/2006 4:34:00 PM >


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Post #: 48
RE: 12/7/41 continued - 3/31/2006 4:43:29 PM   
Terminus


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Be interested in seeing how badly the Rodney got hammered...

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RE: 12/7/41 continued - 3/31/2006 4:47:00 PM   
Alikchi2

 

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Me, too.. Rodney and Prince of Wales are still afloat, apparently, though I dunno how badly damaged they are (I only have the replay and combat reports). I'd love to save them if possible, but both ships have taken multiple torpedoes and DOZENS of bombs. (The combat report is attached to the first 12/7/41 post.) Maybe if I can keep them Nips off long enough for flotation damage to subside, I can bring them out. We shall see..

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Post #: 50
RE: 12/7/41 continued - 3/31/2006 4:55:14 PM   
Terminus


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They're both probably fit to sink, given the description of the hammering they took...

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Post #: 51
RE: 12/7/41 continued - 3/31/2006 4:58:44 PM   
Alikchi2

 

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Probably. Still, I have to hope that I can salvage at least one capital ship from this disaster. Singapore has the largest dry dock in the world, and superb repair facilities...

On the plus side, Warspite and Malaya's HE 15" ammunition is now available for use by Singapore Fortress.. I'm sure the Japanese will love 15" shells raining down on their heads when they try to rush the Causeway

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Post #: 52
RE: 12/7/41 continued - 3/31/2006 5:09:44 PM   
Terminus


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Heh! If nothing else, you can use the big shells to mine the frigging Causeway!

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Post #: 53
RE: 12/7/41 continued - 3/31/2006 5:13:48 PM   
Terminus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alikchi

Probably. Still, I have to hope that I can salvage at least one capital ship from this disaster. Singapore has the largest dry dock in the world, and superb repair facilities...



You'll need lots of aircraft to defend them, though...

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Post #: 54
RE: 12/7/41 continued - 3/31/2006 5:23:54 PM   
Alikchi2

 

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True. Still, I only need to keep them there until the water is pumped out of their hulls. The real fun will be trying to get them through the Malacca straight at one hex per phase..

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Post #: 55
RE: 12/7/41 continued - 3/31/2006 5:33:56 PM   
Terminus


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Yeah, good luck with that...

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Post #: 56
RE: 12/7/41 continued - 3/31/2006 9:45:48 PM   
FeurerKrieg


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Wow, I go to sleep, wake up and this thread has grown fast!

To Andy and others that feel the Singers attack is unrealistic, I thought about that for a while, and saved my last pre-end save in case Alikchi emailed me - 'hey, you can't do that!'.

But my thoughts are that the attack is a reasonable action. First off this is an ALTERNATE history mod. Therefore we are, to some degree, playing a fiction and part of the fun is making up the backstory in each game. Perhaps a stretch that Sing could be hit without warning, but who thought PH was going to happen?

From a gameplay POV, I think things are okay as well. There is clearly a risk in attacking Sing (and I thought about it quite a bit before hand) of a strong counterattack, and with the Nik-esque adjustments Alikchi has put in, there will be leakers even against a 200 zero CAP (as there was in this case, I think about 10 Wellingtons got through). All it takes is a couple bomb hits on a CV or two and it would be a different story. As many of you have pointed out, the possibility of attacking in the Marshall now exists, and with an untouched surface fleet at Pearl Harbor, other opportunities are created.

Other notes: The next couple turns will be slow as I am putting together ship construction lists for my own planning purposed as well as putting a reality check on the ships in the pipeline versus the amount of SYPs available and also I need to review what factories are going to autoupgrade and all that fun production stuff. But once we get past the first week I think things will move along at a faster clip. Glad to see the interest level is here!


Back to the game:

The Emperor rests easy in the knowledge that we have plans to protect our holdings in the Pacific against any US moves. Alikchi is more than welcome to bring out the US boys and we will happily accomodate them in our labor camps.

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Upper portion used with permission of www.subart.net, copyright John Meeks

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Post #: 57
RE: 12/7/41 continued - 3/31/2006 9:52:29 PM   
String


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Hmm.. I didn't realize Feuer Krieg could read this thread

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Post #: 58
RE: 12/7/41 continued - 3/31/2006 10:05:59 PM   
Andy Mac

 

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Just to be clear I dont think the attack itself is wrong as I think Singers is a far more valuable target than PH especially with the CV's there its waht I would hit !!!!.

I just feel that an attack by KB on Singers in turn one wouldnt have gotten surprise. Therefore Surprise should be off and the RAF should be on CAP ready to get wped out by the zeroes of KB and also that some of the ships should be in TF's.

(Assuming surprise was achieved I still think LBA should not port attack on turn one as Torps couldnt be used in Singers Harbour by twin engined bombers. - In fact I am unsure if they could be used by single engined bombers !!!!)_

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Post #: 59
RE: 12/7/41 continued - 3/31/2006 10:13:13 PM   
FeurerKrieg


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I agree, CAP settings should be cranked up for the Penisula, so that even with surprise on, more aircraft will fly.

Also, I should mention I told Alikchi before we started I would adhere to a 1 port attack rule, so I think a HR if used, should certainly account for only one port attack since if an attack was launch in the PI or PH, then time zones would allow the British to leave port well before the daylight hours.

And you are probably right about the torps, I really don't have a clue about what would work and not work at Sing, but maybe we can be creative and say, like the PH torps, special accomadations could have been made? Again, I have no authority on that topic, so forgive my ignorance.

< Message edited by Feurer Krieg -- 3/31/2006 10:15:21 PM >


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