RE: 661 4E`s shot down

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RE: 661 4E`s shot down

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> RE: 661 4E`s shot down

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RE: 661 4E`s shot down - 4/19/2006 4:39:01 AM

pasternakski

Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Oznoyng
Events in WW2 dictated the options available and choices made by the Japanese in WW2. If I change those events, then the options available to me need to change too. The OOB is unduly restrictive in that successes by the Japanese player are not accounted for in the OOB. Reinforcements come at the same rate regardless of losses or gains compared to history.

This is where you depart from understanding and move into the Land of I Wanna. Both sides had production tracks that were difficult, if not impossible, to change in view of short-term results in the field. Why else would the various aircraft, ships, and weapons that were shown from combat experience to be obsolete or otherwise unserviceable continue to have been produced as was done historically?

This, however, begs the real question. Your supposed role in WitP is as a military commander, not as the overseer of the nation's economic and other global policies. As such, you should not have control over these decisions. When that was built into the game, it departed sadly from its original design intent (at least to the extent one can discern intent in this haphazard slough).

quote:

Sorry, but if you want to talk about who is acting the child, I'm of the opinion that you are acting like one.

I see no reason for you to attack Ron personally in this way.

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to Oznoyng)

Post #: 91

RE: 661 4E`s shot down - 4/19/2006 4:57:20 AM

mogami

Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline

Hi, I think it would make more sense for LCU not already in "production" at start to be a result of player inputs. Same for ships and airgroups. (Not just Japanese) But it was a lot easier to just script in the historic units at the historic arrival times.
Since you can see the schedule from turn 2 on it allows the player to plan well in advance. what he can't do is create a new unit of a particular type just for use in a planned operation. Instead he has to find an existing unit and redeploy it or wait for a new unit to arrive. (He has to plan his use to match the availabilty rather then just build a new unit)

_____________________________

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to pasternakski)

Post #: 92

RE: 661 4E`s shot down - 4/19/2006 5:21:23 AM

pasternakski

Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline

I think that the big problem is that you should not be able to change things immediately or on whim based on what has happened on a particular day or during a particular week. If production is to change or technological research is to be altered, it has to be on the basis of a conscious, steeped-in-reason-and-discussion, bureaucratically hindered process, not an ad hoc desire by a theater commander to see such-and-such a change.

I have argued for a long time that the role of the player in this game needs to be defined with some specificity, and that the player's role needs to be preserved in the game's mechanics. This, in my opinion, merely reinforces the correctness of my position. Of course, my position tends to change three or four times a night (ask my girlfriend or my mattress, whichever one I happen to be "sleeping" on at the moment...).

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to mogami)

Post #: 93

RE: 661 4E`s shot down - 4/19/2006 5:23:11 AM

treespider

Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline

quote:

Of course, my position tends to change three or four times a night (ask my girlfriend or my mattress, whichever one I happen to be "sleeping" on at the moment...).

So you are a Democrat like me?

_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to pasternakski)

Post #: 94

RE: 661 4E`s shot down - 4/19/2006 5:34:11 AM

rroberson

Posts: 2050
Joined: 5/25/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline

I like the thought of being a kid at 43.

_____________________________

(in reply to Oznoyng)

Post #: 95

RE: 661 4E`s shot down - 4/19/2006 5:39:04 AM

Ron Saueracker

Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

quote:

ORIGINAL: Oznoyng
Events in WW2 dictated the options available and choices made by the Japanese in WW2. If I change those events, then the options available to me need to change too. The OOB is unduly restrictive in that successes by the Japanese player are not accounted for in the OOB. Reinforcements come at the same rate regardless of losses or gains compared to history.

This is where you depart from understanding and move into the Land of I Wanna. Both sides had production tracks that were difficult, if not impossible, to change in view of short-term results in the field. Why else would the various aircraft, ships, and weapons that were shown from combat experience to be obsolete or otherwise unserviceable continue to have been produced as was done historically?

This, however, begs the real question. Your supposed role in WitP is as a military commander, not as the overseer of the nation's economic and other global policies. As such, you should not have control over these decisions. When that was built into the game, it departed sadly from its original design intent (at least to the extent one can discern intent in this haphazard slough).

quote:

Sorry, but if you want to talk about who is acting the child, I'm of the opinion that you are acting like one.

I see no reason for you to attack Ron personally in this way.

I thought he was being a big meanie too.

My Lucky Charms vs Muslix analogy for releatively low priority features vs major design problems did not go over too well I see. Why do I think if I tried comedy I'd end up as one of those bummed out hopeless drunk clowns and not a happy stand up?

_____________________________

Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to pasternakski)

Post #: 96

RE: 661 4E`s shot down - 4/19/2006 6:18:35 AM

pasternakski

Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker
Why do I think if I tried comedy I'd end up as one of those bummed out hopeless drunk clowns and not a happy stand up?

Hey - some of us bummed out hopeless drunk clowns who have tried stand-up comedy object to that kind of talk...

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to Ron Saueracker)

Post #: 97

RE: 661 4E`s shot down - 4/19/2006 6:21:05 AM

pasternakski

Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider
So you are a Democrat like me?

That's like the taste of 80-year-old pu$$y - depends...

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to treespider)

Post #: 98

RE: 661 4E`s shot down - 4/19/2006 8:48:16 AM

dtravel

Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider
So you are a Democrat like me?

That's like the taste of 80-year-old pu$$y - depends...

Bit over the line with this one, Pasternakski.

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.