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We Need Two TOAWs - 5/16/2006 2:25:17 AM   
rhinobones

 

Posts: 1540
Joined: 2/17/2002
Status: offline 		Think at some future date (assuming it is financially viable) we need two TOAWs. Each optimized for one of the two types of river. Would be nice to have a choice!

Regards, RhinoBones

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)
Post #: 31
RE: We Need Two TOAWs - 5/16/2006 3:02:46 AM   
golden delicious


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From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rhinobones

Think at some future date (assuming it is financially viable) we need two TOAWs. Each optimized for one of the two types of river. Would be nice to have a choice!


Well, one could just allow rivers both in hexes and on hexsides.

I don't see the riverine unit thing as an issue since riverine units don't work properly in TOAW as it stands.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to rhinobones)
Post #: 32
RE: We Need Two TOAWs - 5/16/2006 11:13:44 PM   
GreenDestiny


Posts: 177
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From: Alamogordo NM
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rhinobones

Think at some future date (assuming it is financially viable) we need two TOAWs. Each optimized for one of the two types of river. Would be nice to have a choice!



I like this idea.
It may also be something that Matrix may want to consider as an expansion pack. After they get some sales from TOAW III going. They could set it up like Opart & Opart300 was with two different exe.files so people can play either version whenever they want.

As I see it... this is the best and last chance for something like this to happen.

(in reply to rhinobones)
Post #: 33
RE: We Need Two TOAWs - 5/19/2006 2:21:55 PM   
GreenDestiny


Posts: 177
Joined: 1/4/2005
From: Alamogordo NM
Status: offline 		Last question... I wonder what Norm Koger would think about rivers on the hex-sides. (come on Norm… I know you want this also.) Please turn a classic to a masterpiece.

And also what are the yellow and blue stars in the telescope.
Hmm…?
I think they may be around Orion somewhere… near Trapezium.
A binaries star… that is.


BTW… I’m not a fanatic… I just sound like one.

(in reply to GreenDestiny)
Post #: 34
RE: We Need Two TOAWs - 5/19/2006 4:26:21 PM   
golden delicious


Posts: 5575
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From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreenDestiny

Last question... I wonder what Norm Koger would think about rivers on the hex-sides. (come on Norm… I know you want this also.) Please turn a classic to a masterpiece.


Norm no longer has anything to do with the development of TOAW, so he says. But FWIW I don't think he's particularly averse to hexside rivers.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to GreenDestiny)
Post #: 35
RE: We Need Two TOAWs - 5/19/2006 6:15:44 PM   
*Lava*


Posts: 1924
Joined: 2/9/2004
Status: offline 		Ya think?

If he had wanted them that way I would assume that's the way the game would have been designed.

Seems to me if the riverine stuff doesn't work well, then fix the feature. Changing the map...



Ray (alias Lava)

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Post #: 36
RE: We Need Two TOAWs - 5/19/2006 6:39:40 PM   
golden delicious


Posts: 5575
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lava

Ya think?

If he had wanted them that way I would assume that's the way the game would have been designed.


I think he designed the game the way it is for simplicity.

I guess to you it sounded like I was just postulating, but the reason I think Norm wouldn't mind hexside rivers is that I recall at one point he posted a screenshot of some version of TOAW which he was working on which had hexside rivers on it. At a guess these were the modified escarpments mentioned earlier in this thread.

< Message edited by golden delicious -- 5/19/2006 6:40:52 PM >

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to *Lava*)
Post #: 37
RE: We Need Two TOAWs - 5/19/2006 7:50:58 PM   
ralphtricky


Posts: 6685
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From: Colorado Springs
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quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious


quote:

ORIGINAL: GreenDestiny

Last question... I wonder what Norm Koger would think about rivers on the hex-sides. (come on Norm… I know you want this also.) Please turn a classic to a masterpiece.


Norm no longer has anything to do with the development of TOAW, so he says. But FWIW I don't think he's particularly averse to hexside rivers.

He did some very preliminary work to include hex-side rivers, so I don't think he's opposed to them.

Ralph

(in reply to golden delicious)
Post #: 38
RE: We Need Two TOAWs - 5/20/2006 2:00:06 AM   
rhinobones

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lava
Seems to me if the riverine stuff doesn't work well, then fix the feature. Changing the map...



Ray (alias Lava)


I think the intent, at least my intent, is to first fix the problems with the original TOAW (including riverine units). Second would be to port the original TOAW to a version designed with hex side rivers.

It has never been suggested that the original TOAW be abandon for a hex side river version. I see a hex side river version as a compliment, rather than a replacement of the original TOAW. At scales of 2.5 and 5 Km/Hex the hex side river might be appropriate, while at higher scales the original TOAW might be the designer’s choice.

Of course a hex side version is far in the future, so this becomes an exercise in speculation. But the future does look good!

Regards, RhinoBones




(in reply to *Lava*)
Post #: 39
RE: We Need Two TOAWs - 5/20/2006 2:29:48 AM   
*Lava*


Posts: 1924
Joined: 2/9/2004
Status: offline 		Hey,

I don't have any problems with hex sided rivers included as a new feature. Don't see why you can't have both in the same game.

That gives the player the option to play or create whatever scenarios he wants. And the more options the merrier.

Just don't want to see one superceed the other.

Ray (alias Lava)

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Post #: 40
RE: We Need Two TOAWs - 5/20/2006 2:32:56 AM   
rhinobones

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

. . . at one point he posted a screenshot of some version of TOAW which he was working on which had hexside rivers on it. At a guess these were the modified escarpments mentioned earlier in this thread.


I have been experimenting with the hex side river tiles (thank you again Jarek) and trying to overcome the problems of using river colored escarpments as substitutes for rivers.

In my experiments, the river side tiles are substituted for the original river tiles. Then, to make hex side rivers, you actually draw two parallel rivers. This is a sloppy operation and it requires a lot of clean up to remove unwanted river spurs. However, if you can put up with all the extra work, this seems to work rather well for minor rivers. For major rivers this technique creates a two hex wide impassible barrier for units without significant engineering/bridging capability. Not good for any scenario that I know.

I’m trying this experiment on one of the scenarios I made for the 10 turn “Small Scenario” tournament being played at the Blitz. If I like the tests results, I’ll post the scenario for general distribution.

Regards, RhinoBones

(in reply to golden delicious)
Post #: 41
RE: We Need Two TOAWs - 5/20/2006 2:39:58 AM   
rhinobones

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lava
Just don't want to see one superceed the other.
Ray (alias Lava)


If this ever happens, I think it will be a result of the consumers voting with their pocket books. Not a deliberate up front marketing decision by Matrix.

Regads, RhinoBones

(in reply to *Lava*)
Post #: 42
RE: We Need Two TOAWs - 5/20/2006 5:17:20 AM   
Legun

 

Posts: 209
Joined: 4/22/2006
From: Cracow, Poland
Status: offline
quote:

I don't have any problems with hex sided rivers included as a new feature. Don't see why you can't have both in the same game.


I totally agree.

quote:

That gives the player the option to play or create whatever scenarios he wants.


I see only the possibility for designers. Just like escarpements/hills now. This is a designer decision what's a plateau encircled by escarpements and what's a hill.


(in reply to *Lava*)
Post #: 43
RE: We Need Two TOAWs - 5/20/2006 5:27:24 AM   
Legun

 

Posts: 209
Joined: 4/22/2006
From: Cracow, Poland
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quote:

For major rivers this technique creates a two hex wide impassible barrier for units without significant engineering/bridging capability. Not good for any scenario that I know.


You can use major escerpements or just use original major rivers - check my WERS serie to see how it works. It needs some additional work with special grphics for junctions, but I've made some already.


quote:

I’m trying this experiment on one of the scenarios I made for the 10 turn “Small Scenario” tournament being played at the Blitz. If I like the tests results, I’ll post the scenario for general distribution.

I'm thinking about the WERS tournament at the RD from many months. I hope to start it one day...


quote:

(thank you again Jarek)


This is a big pleasure to see own ideas used wider :).



(in reply to rhinobones)
Post #: 44
RE: We Need Two TOAWs - 5/20/2006 6:16:16 AM   
JAMiAM

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Legun
I see only the possibility for designers. Just like escarpements/hills now. This is a designer decision what's a plateau encircled by escarpements and what's a hill.

Hi Jarek,

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here.

(in reply to Legun)
Post #: 45
RE: We Need Two TOAWs - 5/20/2006 7:58:48 AM   
rhinobones

 

Posts: 1540
Joined: 2/17/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM


quote:

ORIGINAL: Legun
I see only the possibility for designers . . .

Hi Jarek,
I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here.


What ever the meaning, I am sure that it is crystal clear when spoken in Pole.

Would love to buy him a few dozen beers and listen to the explanation. They make some mighty good beer in Poland.

Regards, RhinoBones

(in reply to JAMiAM)
Post #: 46
RE: We Need Two TOAWs - 5/20/2006 5:00:20 PM   
golden delicious


Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM


quote:

ORIGINAL: Legun
I see only the possibility for designers. Just like escarpements/hills now. This is a designer decision what's a plateau encircled by escarpements and what's a hill.

Hi Jarek,

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here.


The idea is that if both types of river are available, then the designer can decide on a case-by-case basis which one is suitable for the situation, just as now he can choose between modelling a hill with a "hill" hex or with a hex surrounded by escarpment.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to JAMiAM)
Post #: 47
RE: We Need Two TOAWs - 5/20/2006 8:44:54 PM   
JAMiAM

 

Posts: 6165
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline 		Thanks Ben!

(in reply to golden delicious)
Post #: 48
RE: We Need Two TOAWs - 5/20/2006 10:40:16 PM   
Legun

 

Posts: 209
Joined: 4/22/2006
From: Cracow, Poland
Status: offline 		Ben - thanks, too. It looks like Ben has learnt "Polenglish" after all these years of my presence on TDG :).

(in reply to JAMiAM)
Post #: 49
RE: We Need Two TOAWs - 5/21/2006 1:24:28 AM   
golden delicious


Posts: 5575
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From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Legun

Ben - thanks, too. It looks like Ben has learnt "Polenglish" after all these years of my presence on TDG :).


Your English is actually pretty good.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to Legun)
Post #: 50
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