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RE: War In The Pacific Updated to v1.801

 
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RE: War In The Pacific Updated to v1.801 - 5/19/2006 7:07:51 AM   
DFalcon


Posts: 318
Joined: 11/2/2004
Status: offline
The named pilot pool will reduce a great deal of micro-management in maintaining air groups. This has to be a positive thing. Getting experienced pilots into the front line now is a major chore. It required weeks long juggling of air groups back and forth across the map.

The effect it has on experience levels is hard to guess right out the box. My guess is that it will not affect the IJN experience levels too much. Players who dedicated the effort were getting high experience replacements and they still will. What they will have is more front line planes on the front and not training. Second line planes will move back to do the training, at least with non PDU games.

The Allied player will now have a viable way to close the experience gap. That is something that took a lot of finesse before. Now it will be a lot easier. I am guessing it will have a more substantial effect on allied fighter experience than anywhere else.

It will take people some time to work out how to best use this new feature and to see how much it affects the experience levels. The time saving and elimination of tedious tasks will be immediate. I welcome that, and am willing to live with the implications.

We will probably look back at the circus tricks we use now to keep air groups maintained and shake our heads at the thought of ever going back there.

I am hoping the little bugs that crop up with this new feature can be squashed quickly.


(in reply to Blackie)
Post #: 91
RE: War In The Pacific Updated to v1.801 - 5/19/2006 7:26:39 AM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		I'm just really impressed with the results we are seeing since Joe and Don have been recruited. No offense to Mike Wood, but it seems like he was stretched beyond reason. Good to see that some fresh programmers not encumbered by Gawd knows what projects have been added to help him out. Looks like the great work Mike did with ASW is now bolstered with some fresh blood and time!

This is a hugely popular game and am just glad to see life breathed into it! What game on these forums has such a dedicated following? This is just freakking great!

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Post #: 92
RE: War In The Pacific Updated to v1.801 - 5/19/2006 7:36:19 AM   
Kadrin


Posts: 183
Joined: 5/5/2005
From: Orange, California
Status: offline 		Previously, disbanding airgroups gave you the option to reform the group in 60(90?) days or not and all pilots and aircraft went into a squadron with the same aircraft at the base. Withdrawing also reformed the squadron in 60(90?) days but only transfered the planes to the squadron in the base and kept the pilots for when it was reformed.

What does Withdrawing and Disbanding do now?

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Post #: 93
RE: War In The Pacific Updated to v1.801 - 5/19/2006 8:22:14 AM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8183
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kadrin

Previously, disbanding airgroups gave you the option to reform the group in 60(90?) days or not and all pilots and aircraft went into a squadron with the same aircraft at the base. Withdrawing also reformed the squadron in 60(90?) days but only transfered the planes to the squadron in the base and kept the pilots for when it was reformed.

What does Withdrawing and Disbanding do now?


The same thing unless:

1. The airgroup is in it's National Home Base.
2. There is NOT an available squadron of the same type of aircraft for the airgroup to merge into.

In that case, you are asked If you want to Disband into Pool or Withdraw.

If you agree to Disband into pool, all planes and pilots are moved into the aircraft and pilot pools and you are asked if you want to reform the group in 90 days. This is the same as "regular" except the planes/pilots go to pools instead of another gorup.

If you agree to Withdraw, the Airgroup WITH all planes and pilots is withdrawn for 60 days. This is only useful if you want to keep the airgroup together while waiting addition aircraft production.

But there is a newly-discovered bug in the disband logic which would disband a group into a another group that is scheduled to arrive at the same base but has not yet arrived.

(in reply to Kadrin)
Post #: 94
RE: War In The Pacific Updated to v1.801 - 5/19/2006 8:29:58 AM   
Kadrin


Posts: 183
Joined: 5/5/2005
From: Orange, California
Status: offline 		Thank you for clearing that up and the speedy response.

Now if you could just put in an option to turn off base repairs, and maybe even a supply level you'd like the base to maintain.

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Post #: 95
RE: War In The Pacific Updated to v1.801 - 5/19/2006 8:30:01 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Don,

Can you withdraw for 60 days a group that has no airplanes? What if there is no other unit at the same base with the type of aircraft (as the group in question is supposed to have)?

(in reply to Don Bowen)
Post #: 96
RE: War In The Pacific Updated to v1.801 - 5/19/2006 8:38:33 AM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kapten Q


quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles_22

quote:

ORIGINAL: veji1

hey... This disband at national base can lead to exploits... Disband all the Floatplanes and transports, even all the bombers later in the war ( as JApan how can you use them anyway..) into the pool and then use it for fighter datais...

I am not sure this is good... had we have pools per type of plane ( fighter IN pool, LB IJN pool, FP IJN pool ), this would be great, but otherwise it is potentially source of gameyness :

put your green pilots in bomber squadrons, do the transport thing, and then put them in the pool, and again...


On the surface level that sure looks like a major hole. It's a good idea to get rid of some of those useless depleted groups anyway. I'm not too sure about this aspect in the PTO, but in the ETO at least, during the Battle of Britain, the RAF took a lot of bomber crews and put them into fighters, so it's not entirely without historical precedence.



The Germans did it as well, put bomber pilots in to single engine night fighter in 43-44. They were experienced and had actually got traning in instrumental navigation, a useful skill at night! There were no time for this skill in the german pilot replecement program during the late war.

But I must say I dont quite understand this namned pilot list thing. Can you select and assign individual pilots to daitais?

Q


Thank you. I hadn't heard of the Gerrys doing it, but it's none too surprising when you consider they put a lot of their surface ship crews into the submarine program too.

My interpretation of the named pilot thing is that those pilots will emerge somewhere or other after 60 days. I was thinking they would be relegated to the same type of airplane but I'm not entirely sure about that. I don't think there's any way they made these pilots completely controllable and assigned at any time. The only real pilot control I see going with this edition is that you can assign pilots in one lump instead of one-at-a-time if you want (saves a few keystrokes).

Oh, sorry, I see the designers explained this better, though I was somewhat wrong here.


< Message edited by Charles_22 -- 5/19/2006 8:48:07 AM >

(in reply to Kapten Q)
Post #: 97
RE: War In The Pacific Updated to v1.801 - 5/19/2006 8:42:05 AM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8183
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Don,

Can you withdraw for 60 days a group that has no airplanes? What if there is no other unit at the same base with the type of aircraft (as the group in question is supposed to have)?


If it is at the National Home Base, I believe that you can. The whole intent of the "Home Base" extensions to Disband and Withdraw was to allow them to happen without having another group available with the same type aircraft.

I've never actually tried with a zero-aircraft group and don't have a test set up. If you do, give it a try. If it works, let me know. If it doesn't work, please hide it from me until tomorrow.

Don

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 98
RE: War In The Pacific Updated to v1.801 - 5/19/2006 8:46:08 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		I'm really interested in options to preserve the unit, without regard to specific a/c or pilots. I never really caught on to the withdraw/disband thing - how are they different?

(in reply to Don Bowen)
Post #: 99
RE: War In The Pacific Updated to v1.801 - 5/19/2006 8:56:31 AM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline 		Now we have reasons to train transport groups .

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 100
RE: War In The Pacific Updated to v1.801 - 5/19/2006 9:01:21 AM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8183
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline
Disband allows you to transfer all planes and pilots from one Airgroup into a similarly equiped airgroup. The disbanded group can optionally be formed in 90 days. If reformed, it will appear as a reinforcement without out pilots or planes, drawing them from pools as needed (and available).

Disband at Home Base allows you to transfer the planes and pilots into the pools if another group is not available. Otherwise similar.

Withdraw allows you to transfer just the planes to another airgroup, then withdraw the airgroup (with pilots) for 60 days. When it returns it will have no planes but will have the original set of pilots. Planes must be drawn from pools.

Withdraw at Home Base allows you to withdraw the entire airgroup, with both planes and pilots, if another group with the same type of aircraft is not available. It has been suggested that this should be changed to allow the aircraft to go to the pool and only the pilots accompany the squadron. I think this is a very good idea and complements the features of Disband at Home Base. It's too bad the guy that did the original work did not think of this.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 101
RE: War In The Pacific Updated to v1.801 - 5/19/2006 9:08:15 AM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

I'm wondering if it will just take time. On the face it is a good idea, but I wonder about using PBYs on 100% Naval Search for a while and then disbanding them so they can fly F4Fs. Or the allies flying supply from one end of the runway to the other and then using those 'trained' pilots to fly P-40s. I think there are a large number of exploits to this and there should be some complaints. Mostly just an observation, players do not have to use exploits, but some think that the game should prevent them.


There's another advantage you may had overlooked in so saying. Transports are more durable than fighters or at least have greater range in most cases, such that a good number of their groups could become training pilots groups and nothing else. This is because the transoprts should suffer a lower ops loss rate than another pilot training in a fighter. In any event, you can now train pilots in the most durable aircraft you have, thereby presumably lowering the ops loss rate.

(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 102
RE: War In The Pacific Updated to v1.801 - 5/19/2006 10:21:35 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		I don´t think that I´ll use this option many times if ever. Reason is that I need my float recons (and I think better pilots are better spotters - at least I hope it is so in the game) and so it´s only for emergencies when you really need e.g. 30 experienced pilots. Otherwise I will train up more pilots in 90 days then I will with training up and wait for 90 days to reform the daitai. So with the new option it will take 180 days to train the pilots of one daitai (90 days = about 60 missions = trained pilot and 90 days to wait for the squadron to reform) I know that´s unrealistic but that´s how it is. In 180 days I could have a super trained squadron (look at the experience levels Aletoledo reached) OR I could train 2 daitais each 90 days. And the rotating in and out has to happen anyway because when I lose the pilots I don´t use the daitai anymore on the front.

I don´t really understand why this reform in 90 days is still in the game with the option to get the pilots to pool. If I take pilots from a transport group to a fighter group why should the transport group wait for 90 days to start training again?

(in reply to Charles2222)
Post #: 103
RE: War In The Pacific Updated to v1.801 - 5/19/2006 11:01:11 AM   
wild_Willie2


Posts: 2934
Joined: 10/8/2004
From: Arnhem (holland) yes a bridge to far...
Status: offline 		ok, HOW does this work now .

I disbanded some floats into osaka, but my pilot pool still shows ZERO. If I than draw pilots from the pool into a fighter dantai, I still get 30 EXp. pilots?.

Do I have to wait a day to get pilots from the named pilot pool ?

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Post #: 104
RE: War In The Pacific Updated to v1.801 - 5/19/2006 1:00:53 PM   
Przemcio231


Posts: 1901
Joined: 10/11/2005
From: Warsaw,Poland,EU:)
Status: offline 		The answer is it dosen't and your only option will be drawing EXP 30 Pilots who will be sloughtered by my Aces

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Post #: 105
RE: War In The Pacific Updated to v1.801 - 5/19/2006 1:13:46 PM   
wild_Willie2


Posts: 2934
Joined: 10/8/2004
From: Arnhem (holland) yes a bridge to far...
Status: offline
quote:

The answer is it dosen't and your only option will be drawing EXP 30 Pilots who will be sloughtered by my Aces


I train 30 exp pilots upto 75 exp pilots within 30 days ;)

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Post #: 106
RE: War In The Pacific Updated to v1.801 - 5/19/2006 1:27:08 PM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		The best use of the HomeBase Disband is to recover the 200+ pilots that some groups in long running games have managed to accumulate.

I like this feature. But then, I did not go out of my way, trying to find some way to abuse it.
From now on, I will add this to my internal list.. find method to abuse said feature. And then plug hole. Repeat until feature is dead or holeless.

Michael

(in reply to wild_Willie2)
Post #: 107
RE: War In The Pacific Updated to v1.801 - 5/19/2006 2:12:52 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline

Could be handy for my 23rd FG eh Michael? 183 pilots still sitting there

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Post #: 108
RE: War In The Pacific Updated to v1.801 - 5/19/2006 2:37:31 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 15793
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wild_Willie2

ok, HOW does this work now .

I disbanded some floats into osaka, but my pilot pool still shows ZERO. If I than draw pilots from the pool into a fighter dantai, I still get 30 EXp. pilots?.

Do I have to wait a day to get pilots from the named pilot pool ?


You may check this thread http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1135881

Be careful disbanding several groups of the same type..


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WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to wild_Willie2)
Post #: 109
RE: War In The Pacific Updated to v1.801 - 5/19/2006 4:12:27 PM   
MarcA


Posts: 1181
Joined: 3/2/2005
From: England
Status: offline 		So just to show not everyone has got it yet:

I disband an airgroup at the main national base.

All the pilots get added to the Named Pilot List, yes?

Those pilots can now be re-assigned to any group of the same nationality?

My question is about the pilots associated with a specific air group, i.e. those proper named pilots assigned to a specific group and originally defined in the editor. The update list says those pilots assigned to a specific group but without a plane go to the named pilot pool. How about the proper named pilots in the group who are flying when it is disbanded. Do these remain with the group and come back when it is reformed.



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Post #: 110
RE: War In The Pacific Updated to v1.801 - 5/19/2006 4:45:46 PM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8183
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mantill

So just to show not everyone has got it yet:

I disband an airgroup at the main national base.

All the pilots get added to the Named Pilot List, yes?

Those pilots can now be re-assigned to any group of the same nationality?

My question is about the pilots associated with a specific air group, i.e. those proper named pilots assigned to a specific group and originally defined in the editor. The update list says those pilots assigned to a specific group but without a plane go to the named pilot pool. How about the proper named pilots in the group who are flying when it is disbanded. Do these remain with the group and come back when it is reformed.


Disband will transfer ALL pilots from the airgroup. Pilots currently in the group and pilots allocated to the group but scheduled to later. All of them.

This is true of Disband, whether or not it uses the original "disband into group" or new "disband into pool at home base" function.

The original airgroup is effectively gone. If you elect to reform the group what you get is an entirely new group that has the same name and basic characteristics (nationality, size, etc).

(in reply to MarcA)
Post #: 111
RE: War In The Pacific Updated to v1.801 - 5/19/2006 4:49:34 PM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		From my understanding:
When a group is disbanded, any pilots currently in that group are sent to the 'named' pool. They are no longer assigned to the disbanded group.
If you want to keep them with the group, then you would need to "withdraw" the group instead.

[Deleted incorrect line]
Michael

< Message edited by michaelm -- 5/19/2006 5:03:58 PM >

(in reply to MarcA)
Post #: 112
RE: War In The Pacific Updated to v1.801 - 5/19/2006 5:29:22 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		H all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


Disband allows you to transfer all planes and pilots from one Airgroup into a similarly equiped airgroup. The disbanded group can optionally be formed in 90 days. If reformed, it will appear as a reinforcement without out pilots or planes, drawing them from pools as needed (and available).

Disband at Home Base allows you to transfer the planes and pilots into the pools if another group is not available. Otherwise similar.

Withdraw allows you to transfer just the planes to another airgroup, then withdraw the airgroup (with pilots) for 60 days. When it returns it will have no planes but will have the original set of pilots. Planes must be drawn from pools.

Withdraw at Home Base allows you to withdraw the entire airgroup, with both planes and pilots, if another group with the same type of aircraft is not available. It has been suggested that this should be changed to allow the aircraft to go to the pool and only the pilots accompany the squadron. I think this is a very good idea and complements the features of Disband at Home Base. It's too bad the guy that did the original work did not think of this.


You or Joe?


Leo "Apollo11"

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(in reply to Don Bowen)
Post #: 113
RE: War In The Pacific Updated to v1.801 - 5/19/2006 6:07:01 PM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8183
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

H all,


You or Joe?


Leo "Apollo11"



Ah, er, (blush) - me.

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 114
RE: War In The Pacific Updated to v1.801 - 5/19/2006 9:44:37 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

H all,


You or Joe?


Leo "Apollo11"



Ah, er, (blush) - me.


Well, here's a thought. A group - not at national home base - has no planes.

A) It is good you can now load it up for transport.

B) Pilots come in via the supply system. They should be able to go out the same way. How about adding the ability to withdraw/disband the group even if not at the national home base?

Just a thought.

(in reply to Don Bowen)
Post #: 115
RE: War In The Pacific Updated to v1.801 - 5/20/2006 5:20:24 AM   
1275psi

 

Posts: 7979
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline 		2 thoughts

When Ron says hes pleased, things are going well. actually, the effort put in here is fabulous!!!

Im stupid, so have not got this pilot thing worked out yet, but im sure I will.
Im more interested in the pick up pilots thing

Most of my "stuck" pilots are in exposed areas -I have 100 at rangoon, where sending an AK would be suicide
can I use a fast transport TF to have a go at picking them up?

Thanks

personally I will probably never disband or withdraw large numbers of planes -Im stretched enough at the moment

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 116
RE: War In The Pacific Updated to v1.801 - 5/20/2006 5:41:54 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 1275psi
Im more interested in the pick up pilots thing

Most of my "stuck" pilots are in exposed areas -I have 100 at rangoon, where sending an AK would be suicide
can I use a fast transport TF to have a go at picking them up?



Adding to 1275psi's question, how about air transport of the stuck pilots?

(in reply to 1275psi)
Post #: 117
RE: War In The Pacific Updated to v1.801 - 5/20/2006 5:51:10 AM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		Groups can only be loaded on AKs.
Even a no plane group is still a group.

Groups don't show up in the FT pickup list.

Michael

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1275psi

2 thoughts

When Ron says hes pleased, things are going well. actually, the effort put in here is fabulous!!!

Im stupid, so have not got this pilot thing worked out yet, but im sure I will.
Im more interested in the pick up pilots thing

Most of my "stuck" pilots are in exposed areas -I have 100 at rangoon, where sending an AK would be suicide
can I use a fast transport TF to have a go at picking them up?

Thanks

personally I will probably never disband or withdraw large numbers of planes -Im stretched enough at the moment


(in reply to 1275psi)
Post #: 118
RE: War In The Pacific Updated to v1.801 - 5/21/2006 5:57:27 AM   
1275psi

 

Posts: 7979
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline 		buggar

looks lika a lot of pilots will soon become infantry

(in reply to michaelm75au)
Post #: 119
RE: War In The Pacific Updated to v1.801 - 5/21/2006 5:32:32 PM   
siRkid


Posts: 6650
Joined: 1/29/2002
From: Orland FL
Status: offline
quote:

give the ability to load airgroups without planes onto transport ships and make the automatic supply “push” to outlying bases smarter and more efficient.


You know what esle is needed along these lines is the Ability to move these types of units by rail. Or units that have all damaged planes. Think about it, here is an air unit that wants to be moved by rail and the conductor insist that they have at leat one operational plane before they can board.

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Post #: 120
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