German 76mm AT gun (r)

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >> German 76mm AT gun (r)

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German 76mm AT gun (r) - 5/29/2006 5:57:08 PM

o4r

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I believe this is a capture Russian 76mm Model 36 AT gun.

Is the range 24 correct or we need to change it back to 56?

Secondly, it appear in June 1941, just at the begining of the Russian campagin?

The text I think it is discribing a Italy MG.

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RE: German 76mm AT gun (r) - 5/29/2006 7:57:56 PM

Alby

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yes we didnt get to fixing all the text files yet
that will have to be patched in later.

76mm Pak 36(r)
that gun is used on the Las 672, Pzjgr 38
range is 56

the AT gun version -76mm Pak 36(r) ATG, appears Jan 41
which is probably too early.

< Message edited by Alby -- 5/29/2006 8:27:35 PM >

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RE: German 76mm AT gun (r) - 5/29/2006 8:16:26 PM

FlashfyreSP

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The AT Gun unit looks to be wrong. The Range IS too low; it should be the same as the other weapon. And the date is wrong; I believe it should have been Jan 1942 for the PaK36.

The PaK36 (r) was rechambered to use German 75mm PaK40 ammunition.

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RE: German 76mm AT gun (r) - 5/29/2006 8:26:20 PM

Alby

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one for the patch

no idea how "203" got in the range instead of "207"
date was probably entered by mistake.
supposed to have been 42
I remember the day we went over these units...
damn typos!!

< Message edited by Alby -- 5/29/2006 10:01:06 PM >

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RE: German 76mm AT gun (r) - 5/29/2006 10:10:24 PM

FlashfyreSP

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Me too. Every time we said, "This OOB is DONE!", one of us would find something else wrong in it!

I don't know how many times some OOB got tweaked....

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RE: German 76mm AT gun (r) - 5/29/2006 10:55:57 PM

Alby

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heheh, we are singin the 76mm blues

< Message edited by Alby -- 5/29/2006 10:57:26 PM >

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RE: German 76mm AT gun (r) - 5/30/2006 2:30:28 AM

264rifle

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I believe that the German conversion had the chamber reamed out to accept ammuntion using the 75mm Pak 40 cartridge case with the neck of the case expanded from 75mm to 76mm. It used different projectiles than the 75mm Pak 40. In Ian Hogg's book the AP round, the AP 40 round and the regular HE all have different weights than the 75mm Pak 40 projectiles.

I am only bringing this up because there has been a lot of confusion over the years as to what this gun fired. Some people have wanted to use the German specs for the unmodified Russian gun.

Since the figures given for armour penetration are only off by 5-12 mm in most cases from the 75mm Pak 40 this might not make that much difference in game play.

Just trying to keep the confusion to a minimum.

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RE: German 76mm AT gun (r) - 5/31/2006 12:18:12 AM

o4r

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Actually I was kind of backlog alot of reading from SPWAW Depot last week.

I was reading the German infantry information and the Sdfz 250/1 and 251/1. I think the discussion was about the back MG being the weapon belongs the unit that the vehicle is alocated to them, as they disembarked, that MG was brought with them immediately. There is much discussion that they should have 2 MG but that part is missing in German unit and endded up in Russian unit.... hmmmm....

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RE: German 76mm AT gun (r) - 5/31/2006 12:41:47 AM

Alby

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quote:

ORIGINAL: o4r

Actually I was kind of backlog alot of reading from SPWAW Depot last week.

I was reading the German infantry information and the Sdfz 250/1 and 251/1. I think the discussion was about the back MG being the weapon belongs the unit that the vehicle is alocated to them, as they disembarked, that MG was brought with them immediately. There is much discussion that they should have 2 MG but that part is missing in German unit and endded up in Russian unit.... hmmmm....

This goes back to 8.3 oobs
thats the way they are there too.

some sources state the rear MG was the squads LMG and was dismouted and went with the squad.
so how would you model this in the game?

If you read that discussion at the depot I initially wanted to add the second MG, but left them as they were in 8.3 because, I changed my mind on this issue.
or rather the experts changed it for me...LOL

what do the German Halftracks have to do with Russians BTW??

< Message edited by Alby -- 5/31/2006 1:10:40 AM >

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RE: German 76mm AT gun (r) - 5/31/2006 12:52:02 AM

FlashfyreSP

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quote:

ORIGINAL: o4r

Actually I was kind of backlog alot of reading from SPWAW Depot last week.

I was reading the German infantry information and the Sdfz 250/1 and 251/1. I think the discussion was about the back MG being the weapon belongs the unit that the vehicle is alocated to them, as they disembarked, that MG was brought with them immediately. There is much discussion that they should have 2 MG but that part is missing in German unit and endded up in Russian unit.... hmmmm....

The German rifle squad mounted their squad LMG on the rear pintle mounting when the embarked the halftrack. Upon disembarking, they took it with them and used it as the focus of the squad's manuvers. Since the game doesn't allow us to "dismount" weapons from a vehicle unit and use them with another unit, we have to make an allowance and assume that the squad's use of the LMG is more important than the halftrack's, considering it has another one already.

Giving the haftrack two MGs, while still allowing the passenger squad to have one in it's persoanl weapons list, means a given Grenadier squad would have access to 3 MGs: 2 on the track and one in the squad. In reality, they would only have 2.

This topic has been discussed amny times, and it is the best compromise anyone has come up with.

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RE: German 76mm AT gun (r) - 6/3/2006 6:44:56 PM

o4r

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Oh, about the comments on the Russia unit?

I like the unit with the 2 LMG. After reading the forum in SPWAW depot, I thought that some german unit is going to get 2 LMG, now it seems that only Russian units got it.

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RE: German 76mm AT gun (r) - 6/3/2006 11:21:11 PM

FlashfyreSP

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What Russian unit are you talking about? AFAIK, the only Russian unit to have 2 MGs is the US-delivered M9 Halftrack, with a .50cal and a .30cal AAMG. Units were shipped with MGs included; not every nation used them, and those that did didn't always use them.

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RE: German 76mm AT gun (r) - 6/4/2006 5:40:19 PM

Alby

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there is one Russian Rifle Squad that is armed with 2 LMGs from 42-43

So since they have 2 LMGs I guess the Germans are supposed to have a squad like that too?

Due to available slot limitations, we simply cannot make up all that many different type Infantry squads armed with all different weapon make ups.

This was however possible in the USMC as most of that OOB IS Infantry Units

< Message edited by Alby -- 6/4/2006 6:55:19 PM >

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RE: German 76mm AT gun (r) - 6/5/2006 4:03:40 PM

o4r

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Actually there are 2 slots that may be available.

I dunno is it a typo error again or not.

Maybe you look into them.

Unit 160, GE Grenadiers, they are only available in January 1946 which the war has already ended.

Unit 164, Brandenburgers. It is unnecessary unit since it changes is only the LMG.

Sometime I was thinking might as well create a MG 34/42 and average out the range. This will create more slot.

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RE: German 76mm AT gun (r) - 6/5/2006 4:37:28 PM

FlashfyreSP

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1. Combining the MG34 with the MG42 doesn't make sense. It's not the range that is the issue; it's the lethality of the MG42 over the MG34. How do you justify "averaging" the HE Kill number of these weapons just to have a German unit equipped with 2 LMGs?

2. Unit #160 is for post-war hypothetical battles. The Grenadiers are armed with the StG44 assault rifle and the MG42 LMG.

3. The Brandenburgers (formerly GE Spec Ops Sqd) unit has been criticized in the past for having the MG42 LMG when played in 1939-1941. Because there were not enough unit slots, a compromise was made in past OOBs that put the unit in the early war with a late-war weapon. We have fixed that. Yes, it only changes the LMG, but that is an historical change. The MG42 simply wasn't available in 1940.

All of this for what? Because the Soviet OOB has ONE infantry unit that represents a squad which has acquired an extra LMG from the field...there are US squads that have the same thing. And there are other infantry units throughout the OOBs whose weapon loads are "unbalanced" from the typical Rifle-LMG-AT-Grenade layout.

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RE: German 76mm AT gun (r) - 6/5/2006 4:55:07 PM

o4r

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But unit 76, GE Spec Ops Sqd is still available in May 1943?

If combined the MG is not fesibile, then give them MG 34 instead. That will free one slot...

Unit 156 Waffen-SS Sqd has the organisation and weapon as unit 160, just a different organization only.

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RE: German 76mm AT gun (r) - 6/5/2006 5:11:55 PM

Korpraali V

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alby
Due to available slot limitations, we simply cannot make up all that many different type Infantry squads armed with all different weapon make ups.

This was however possible in the USMC as most of that OOB IS Infantry Units

So if we someday will be given some extra nations, SS OOB could be a real choice...

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RE: German 76mm AT gun (r) - 6/5/2006 5:19:38 PM

FlashfyreSP

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Unit 76 represents a different type. It carries the Panzerwurfmine instead of Satchel Charge, and represents German units that were "tank hunter-killer" groups. Groups that laid ambushes for enemy armour, both in the East and in the West, as well as Italy and the North African Tunisia theater. The Brandenburghers are the true infiltrating units, such as Skorzeny's men.

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RE: German 76mm AT gun (r) - 6/6/2006 1:19:29 AM

Alby

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quote:

ORIGINAL: o4r

But unit 76, GE Spec Ops Sqd is still available in May 1943?

If combined the MG is not fesibile, then give them MG 34 instead. That will free one slot...

Unit 156 Waffen-SS Sqd has the organisation and weapon as unit 160, just a different organization only.

Unit 156 is "Elite" classed and starts in 44, ends 1945
Unit 160 is not "Elite", starts in 1946 ends 1949

Some German Inf Squads Have Rifle Grenades, The Russians dont.
The Russians have one Squad for one year that has 2 LMGs...I simply dont see what the big deal is???

< Message edited by Alby -- 6/7/2006 5:44:59 AM >

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RE: German 76mm AT gun (r) - 6/8/2006 4:51:57 PM

o4r

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Hey you are talking about MG men.... rifle grenades in WWII cannot compare to a LMG..... The modern GL (Grenade Launcher) and MGL (Machine Grenade Launcher) is a another thing.... But German Granatbuchse 39 certainly look interesting....but I really doubt it effectiveness.

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