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Fighter-Bombers - 6/28/2006 3:44:11 AM   
PaladinSix

 

Posts: 79
Joined: 1/7/2006
Status: offline 		I'm currently playing (and struggling) with Bob Cross' D-Day France 1944 scenario (golden_delicious is helping me out with the ass-kicking I keep getting), and I've noticed something that I can't quite figure out.

I experimented with using the Air-Staff Assitant to handle the air war, but I had to relieve him of his duties when he consistently sent the bulk of my air force to bomb distant airfields in Germany. Particularly annoying, since I was still being slaughtered on the beaches of Normandy and most of those airfield attacks cost me an entire squadron of bombers.

Anyway, I shut down the ASA and tried to assign air units myself, but I found that some of them had limited mission options. In particular, I kept coming across units designated as fighter-bombers, but when I tried to put them on combat support, the only options available were air superiority or rest.

I'm not sure if this is:

1) a bug in the game engine
2) a bug in the scenario design
3) a fixed element in the scenario design that is supposed to be there for historical or balance reasons,
or
4) something I'm doing wrong when assigning air units

The last possibility is probably the most likely, but it seemed to me that fighter-bombers would be handy to have over Normandy, so I thought I would see if anyone else encountered this, and if so, how to fix it.

PaladinSix
Post #: 1
RE: Fighter-Bombers - 6/28/2006 3:56:35 AM   
JAMiAM

 

Posts: 6165
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline 		This happens when the equipment in a unit consists solely of airframes that do not have anti-personnel ratings. The airframes are treated as interceptors only, and can only be assigned AS or Rest missions. I assume that you are speaking of the Mosquito units in the Allied OOB.

(in reply to PaladinSix)
Post #: 2
RE: Fighter-Bombers - 6/28/2006 4:18:29 AM   
PaladinSix

 

Posts: 79
Joined: 1/7/2006
Status: offline 		I'm not at my own computer, so I can't confirm that the units in question are the Mosquitos, but it seems likely. So, if its the airframe, then the "fighter-bomber" designation is for unit identification purposes, rather than actual roles in combat, right?

(in reply to JAMiAM)
Post #: 3
RE: Fighter-Bombers - 6/28/2006 5:51:49 AM   
JAMiAM

 

Posts: 6165
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PaladinSix

I'm not at my own computer, so I can't confirm that the units in question are the Mosquitos, but it seems likely. So, if its the airframe, then the "fighter-bomber" designation is for unit identification purposes, rather than actual roles in combat, right?

The Mosquitos are described in the database as "Fighter-bombers" but that is a bit of a mistake, since they cannot truly function (within the TOAW engine) as fighter bombers. I think it was an oversight in the database, or based on a particular load-out (no forward firing MG's, but using rockets) and that they should have have been given a non-zero AP factor. I would have to run tests, and check the toawlogs to be positive, but if they were mixed with another airframe that did have non-zero AP strengths, the Mosquitos might participate in anti-armor combat since they do have a non-zero value for that.

(in reply to PaladinSix)
Post #: 4
RE: Fighter-Bombers - 6/28/2006 2:35:37 PM   
Catch21

 

Posts: 511
Joined: 4/13/2006
From: Dublin
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PaladinSix
I experimented with using the Air-Staff Assitant to handle the air war, but I had to relieve him of his duties when he consistently sent the bulk of my air force to bomb distant airfields in Germany.

I don't call him the ASS (Air Staff (assisted) Suicide) for nothing. I hope you court-martialled and shot him.

_____________________________

Tactics are based on Weapons... Strategy on Movement... and Movement on Supply.
(J. F. C. Fuller 1878-1966)

(in reply to PaladinSix)
Post #: 5
RE: Fighter-Bombers - 6/28/2006 6:50:39 PM   
wolflars

 

Posts: 184
Joined: 6/8/2006
Status: offline 		Doesn't the ASS use the same logic in conducting his air missions that the PO would use?  If so then the PO also makes terrible choices regarding air allocation.

(in reply to Catch21)
Post #: 6
RE: Fighter-Bombers - 6/28/2006 7:18:48 PM   
PaladinSix

 

Posts: 79
Joined: 1/7/2006
Status: offline 		Well, I can't speak to the programming logic behind the ASA, but I did notice that on the first two turns of a Normandy campaign, roughly a quarter of my bombers got toasted over Germany, while not one of my airfields in England was hit. Apparently, when I shot my ASA for dereliction of duty, I should have offered his job to someone from the Luftwaffe planning staff.

(in reply to wolflars)
Post #: 7
RE: Fighter-Bombers - 6/28/2006 7:49:40 PM   
golden delicious


Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PaladinSix

Well, I can't speak to the programming logic behind the ASA, but I did notice that on the first two turns of a Normandy campaign, roughly a quarter of my bombers got toasted over Germany, while not one of my airfields in England was hit.


Well, in that scenario the Germans don't have many aircraft available to receive orders, at least to begin with, and none of them are bombers.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to PaladinSix)
Post #: 8
RE: Fighter-Bombers - 6/28/2006 8:52:20 PM   
Catch21

 

Posts: 511
Joined: 4/13/2006
From: Dublin
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wolflars
Doesn't the ASS use the same logic in conducting his air missions that the PO would use? If so then the PO also makes terrible choices regarding air allocation.

No. Elmer seems by all accounts to just head for the jugular. Or keep you at hands length. The ASS just tries to put fighters on moon landing missions and bombers on crop spraying or aerobatics display duties. Or there's always rest. The ASS likes that too. Less work.

Really best to just turn it off. And always check when you open your first PBEM turn that your opponent hasn't tried a really nasty sneaky dirty trick and turned it on before sending it to you. Especially if you're playing some Operation Sealion type scenario. The RAF can go down in a blaze of glory as they try to bomb Berlin with Spitfires and Hurricanes or take out ME-109s and HE-111s with Wellingtons.

_____________________________

Tactics are based on Weapons... Strategy on Movement... and Movement on Supply.
(J. F. C. Fuller 1878-1966)

(in reply to wolflars)
Post #: 9
RE: Fighter-Bombers - 6/29/2006 3:10:29 AM   
golden delicious


Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: General Staff

Really best to just turn it off. And always check when you open your first PBEM turn that your opponent hasn't tried a really nasty sneaky dirty trick and turned it on before sending it to you. Especially if you're playing some Operation Sealion type scenario. The RAF can go down in a blaze of glory as they try to bomb Berlin with Spitfires and Hurricanes or take out ME-109s and HE-111s with Wellingtons.


A tip for the victim of careless clicking- if you ever accidentally switch on the Air Staff Assistant, always head straight for the "undo" button. This will set all air unit orders back to what they were, which simply switching him off will not. Note however that this does not switch off the Assistant, and you will have to do that yourself after hitting undo.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to Catch21)
Post #: 10
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