TOAW CoW -> III scen conversion bug

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TOAW CoW -> III scen conversion bug

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III >> TOAW III Support >> TOAW CoW -> III scen conversion bug

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TOAW CoW -> III scen conversion bug - 7/24/2006 12:43:58 PM

Industrial

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Joined: 5/29/2006
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I have a very serious feeling that there's a scenario conversion bug from COW -> III, and would like somebody with both games and experience with the game mechanics to check it out.

Over at SZO we are working on an improved WestFront scenario, we modified it (mostly with the attrition divider) to a point where the german defence in Italy is extremely difficult to defeat, while a player who used TOAW III reported (and posted a screenshot) that said scenario still behaves just like the original, which plays very different from our ccurrent playtest version.

Here is the modified scenario:
http://www.xtreme-gamer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=553033&postcount=209

please, test it and report:
- does combat has the same feel in COW and TOAW?
- How are the losses for either side in both games?
- Are the defenders easier un-dig in one game?

basically, is it easier to break the german defence in TOAW III than in COW ?

_____________________________

"The conventional army loses if it does not win. The guerrilla wins if he does not lose."

Henry Alfred Kissinger

<--- aka: Kraut

Post #: 1

RE: TOAW CoW -> III scen conversion bug - 7/24/2006 6:29:16 PM

Chuck2

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Is the player patched up to the latest version?

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RE: TOAW CoW -> III scen conversion bug - 7/24/2006 7:47:26 PM

JAMiAM

Posts: 6165
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Yeah, if they're not up to patch 3.0.0.17, they are going to have a lot of rout results.

(in reply to Chuck2)

Post #: 3

RE: TOAW CoW -> III scen conversion bug - 7/24/2006 8:24:48 PM

Industrial

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Joined: 5/29/2006
Status: offline

He uses the latest patch (.17)

Basically what he reports is that getting a breakthrough was easy in TOAW III, while in CoW the german line was almost impossible to break on turn 1, the stubborn germans stayed fortified most of the time, took few losses and simply refused to retreat, to routing wasn't a problem in the first place, as there were no retreated units that could rout

so what I'm asking for are some results from a TOAW III player to compare his experience with the CoW results. If the german defence is easy to break in TOAW III and hard in CoW than there has to be a (probably unintended) difference between the two game versions.

_____________________________

"The conventional army loses if it does not win. The guerrilla wins if he does not lose."

Henry Alfred Kissinger

<--- aka: Kraut

(in reply to JAMiAM)

Post #: 4

RE: TOAW CoW -> III scen conversion bug - 7/24/2006 8:39:33 PM

JAMiAM

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Joined: 2/8/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Industrial

He uses the latest patch (.17)

Basically what he reports is that getting a breakthrough was easy in TOAW III, while in CoW the german line was almost impossible to break on turn 1, the stubborn germans stayed fortified most of the time, took few losses and simply refused to retreat, to routing wasn't a problem in the first place, as there were no retreated units that could rout

so what I'm asking for are some results from a TOAW III player to compare his experience with the CoW results. If the german defence is easy to break in TOAW III and hard in CoW than there has to be a (probably unintended) difference between the two game versions.

Have him email me a copy of each of the scenarios, and I'll check it out.

(in reply to Industrial)

Post #: 5

RE: TOAW CoW -> III scen conversion bug - 7/24/2006 8:41:23 PM

Industrial

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Joined: 5/29/2006
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For reference, Dicke Bertha did a turn 1 as the Allies and took a screenshot, this is his comment:

quote:

Just for fun I played an Allied T1, with 8 rounds, all on limited attack, minimise losses, artillery indirectly supporting, many air units on general combat support. This is what it looked like for the Germans on their T1, not one hex lost, and only some of the defenders undug - many are pretty worn of course after the supply and readyness drainage.

And this is the screenshot, so, please check whether you are able to achieve better in TOAW III :)

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"The conventional army loses if it does not win. The guerrilla wins if he does not lose."

Henry Alfred Kissinger

<--- aka: Kraut

(in reply to Industrial)

Post #: 6

RE: TOAW CoW -> III scen conversion bug - 7/24/2006 8:43:50 PM

Industrial

Posts: 143
Joined: 5/29/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM
Have him email me a copy of each of the scenarios, and I'll check it out.

Look
at
the
first
post...

Seems as if you need some new glasses, James

But, here is the link again...

CLICK HERE FOR THE SCENARIO!!

< Message edited by Industrial -- 7/24/2006 8:44:56 PM >

_____________________________

"The conventional army loses if it does not win. The guerrilla wins if he does not lose."

Henry Alfred Kissinger

<--- aka: Kraut

(in reply to JAMiAM)

Post #: 7

RE: TOAW CoW -> III scen conversion bug - 7/24/2006 8:49:30 PM

JAMiAM

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Like I said, have him send me a copy of the CoW version and the TOAW III conversion, and I will do an identical side-by-side comparison. I've seen too many "tests" where someone just kind of goes through the motions and doesn't really make accurate comparisons to give too much credence to the report, at this time. When I can see for myself whether or not there are any changes between the scenario files, that may make a difference, and make sure that the attacks are planned identically, then I will be able to give better feedback.

(in reply to Industrial)

Post #: 8

RE: TOAW CoW -> III scen conversion bug - 7/24/2006 8:55:14 PM

JAMiAM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Industrial

quote:

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM
Have him email me a copy of each of the scenarios, and I'll check it out.

Look
at
the
first
post...

Seems as if you need some new glasses, James

No, Stefan. You do. I said to have him email me a copy of EACH of the scenarios. That is one for CoW and on that was presumably converted for TOAW III. I want to use the same things that the one who reported the difference used, that you are reporting here. As you can see this is already turning into a case of hearsay. I want the scenarios straight from the source of the report. Anything else is chasing rabbits, and not something that I really have time to do.

(in reply to Industrial)

Post #: 9

RE: TOAW CoW -> III scen conversion bug - 7/24/2006 9:02:49 PM

Industrial

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2 scenarios? There is just the one I posted, it was developed and is tested under CoW, but the SZO forum member simply loaded it into TOAW III and tried it there, with descibed results.
Going from what i read so far TOAW should automatically load and convert CoW scenarios, and if everything goes right they should behave the same under III than as under CoW (besides the obvious differences such as AA finally shooting down planes). And that's basically what i wanted to find out, because if the scenario really behaves differnetly in III that could be due to a bug during the scenario conversion, or an unintended or at least undocumented different behaviour of TOAW III, which would be good for scenario designers to know about, if it#s there :)

So, if you really dont want to download the scenario from the posted link, I can of course send you an email with the scenario, but it would be the same file =)

_____________________________

"The conventional army loses if it does not win. The guerrilla wins if he does not lose."

Henry Alfred Kissinger

<--- aka: Kraut

(in reply to JAMiAM)

Post #: 10

RE: TOAW CoW -> III scen conversion bug - 7/24/2006 9:31:05 PM

Chuck2

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My turn in TOAW 3 looked similar to Dicke Bertha's turn in COW:

I should add I received an early-turn ending with 40% of the turn left.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Chuck2 -- 7/24/2006 9:34:21 PM >

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RE: TOAW CoW -> III scen conversion bug - 7/24/2006 10:37:19 PM

JAMiAM

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Joined: 2/8/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Industrial

...but the SZO forum member simply loaded it into TOAW III and tried it there, with descibed results...

Are you referring to the screenshot of Becker's? His was done under CoW, from my reading of the post, and I saw that he was intending to do it again with TOAW III. As far as I can tell, you're making much ado about nothing - or more appropriately making a conclusion from one player's results in CoW, against another player's results again in CoW, and thinking it has to do with TOAW III.

Now, it could just be the heat wave getting to me, but I don't understand what you are going on about, and what it has to do with TOAW III support...

(in reply to Industrial)

Post #: 12

RE: TOAW CoW -> III scen conversion bug - 7/24/2006 10:41:45 PM

Chuck2

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I believe Becker said he had done well on turn 1 in TOAW 3 as the Allies. He never posted a screen shot, though. He's probably just a great player and can do well in either COW or TOAW 3.

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