Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

smoke screens

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [Modern] >> FlashPoint Germany >> smoke screens Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
smoke screens - 9/4/2006 5:58:26 PM   
nukkxx5058


Posts: 2932
Joined: 2/3/2005
From: France
Status: offline 		Hi all,

I need advices on how yo use the smoke screens efficiently. It seems it has no effect for me. (i have fpg 1.11)
Should i fire i directly on enemy units ? one squarre before ? or even on my own units ???

Thanks.
nukkxx
Post #: 1
RE: smoke screens - 9/4/2006 6:08:27 PM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		Nukkxx,

Depends on what side you are playing. In most cases the NATO forces have thermal imagers which can see through the smoke making it a tough day for Soviet forces who can't. As NATO I use smoke to screen units from advancing hordes of Soviet tanks. I'll lay a screen about 500-1000 meters ahead of my forces to block the Soviet view. There is one minor glitch to watch for though. Units can see across the contacting points of two diagonal squares (something we will fix in the new game). Also smoke is not 100% effective and in some low percentage cases foul even thermal sights. From the Soviet perspective you need to know who the enemy is. Some German and British units do not use Thermal Sights (mainly infantry units) so smoking them will allow you to close with the greater numbers. If they have armour use HE or mines on the tanks to slow them down and beat them up. Works good if NATO is defending.

Hope that helps.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to nukkxx5058)
Post #: 2
RE: smoke screens - 9/6/2006 7:58:05 PM   
Gudgey

 

Posts: 31
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		Hi,

Didn't I read somewhere in the manual that smoke blocks thermal sights by about fifteen percent? If this is the case then by layering the smoke screen you might have a chance of masking an approach. Of course your Warsaw Pact units will be completely blind too!

Gudgey.

< Message edited by Gudgey -- 9/6/2006 7:59:32 PM >

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 3
RE: smoke screens - 9/7/2006 1:10:41 AM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		Gudgey,

Point well taken. If you have a lot of smoke to pour into a narrow approach you would have a chance to mask some of your units. I'm more inclinced to shake them up with a good arty/rocket barrage myself, but a little smoke never hurts.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to Gudgey)
Post #: 4
RE: smoke screens - 9/24/2006 1:20:43 PM   
Gudgey

 

Posts: 31
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		I'm a bit confused about this. If you look at the T-80U/UK they both have an Infra-red gun sight, but the sitrep says no line of sight through smoke. What's the sight for if not to see through smoke, a night sight? In the manual it says that by 1989 almost all the vehicles have this ability, so the massive amount of smoke shells the Soviet Union had is mostly redundant.

Gudgey

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 5
RE: smoke screens - 9/24/2006 6:12:11 PM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		Gudgey,

The Infra-red sights are an active system which required the use of the IR spotlights on most Soviet vehicals and had a limited range. In the 80's the US starting using a thermal sight, a passive device that sees the world in a different wavelength and could see objects through most of the smoke around at the time and in the dark. You have two different systems. The IR search light was first used at the end of WW2 by the Germans. At night you would have to use a standard searchlight which is of course visible. The IR searchlight did not have a "bright" beam and only required special sights to see with.

So yes most of the Soviet smoke would have been useless on Thermal sighted NATO units, but not all NATO units could see through smoke (mainly infantry). Soviets started to field thermal sights in the 90's and both side developed smoke that could obscure Thermal imagers too. A game of cat and mouse.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to Gudgey)
Post #: 6
RE: smoke screens - 9/25/2006 9:45:13 PM   
Gudgey

 

Posts: 31
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		Cap'n, thanks for the explanation.

I still find it strange that the Soviets started using thermals so late, it seems like a huge oversight to me!
Was it a doctrine thing, i.e. there were so many Soviet tanks that the opposition would simply be overwhelmed (no matter how good a tank is, it can still only fire so many rounds a minute!)? Or was it simply a technology issue?
I can't remember which book I read, might have been Ralph Peter's Red Army, but there was a large scale Soviet assualt on a Nato position at night, and the Soviet armour was supported by massive amounts of star shells to illuminate the battlefield. (Something for the next patch maybe?

Come to think of it, it might have been Sir General John Hackett's The third World War.

Gudgey.

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 7
RE: smoke screens - 9/25/2006 10:38:42 PM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		Gudgey,

I would say a combination of all of those points. Soviet tech in many areas was about 5-10 years behind the West. Most NATO hardware in the 80's had very good computer fire control, weapons had good seekers, and the hardware itself was pretty good too. Somewhere in the 70's the Russians began to change from quantity to quality in military platforms. The Air forces seemed to go there first looking at planes like the MiG-29 and Su-27. Of course, they still had a ton of quantity to use too. Even in favorable conditions NATO forces can get overrun by numbers. As you put it only so many rounds can get fired. You can see some of that in certain FPG scenarios. If a NATO player is soft with artillery or air strikes, you end up with Russian armour in your face.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to Gudgey)
Post #: 8
RE: smoke screens - 11/21/2006 10:28:09 PM   
Panta_slith


Posts: 318
Joined: 4/4/2002
From: Montevideo, Uruguay
Status: offline 		I wonder whether prior to its release FPG has been played/tested mostly from the NATO point of view. Playing WP against other fellow human can be very frustrating in many aspects, and smoke is one of them.
NATO player's extensive use of smoke screen can seriously unbalance the game, as units placed in squares covered by smoke are invisible to WP units, thus almost invulnerable to everything but arty. On the other hand, the lack of ICM ammo by the WP (or almost9 reduces very much its effectiveness.
Leaving aside the realistic-unrealistic discussion, as you can't edit artillery units's ammo (to reduce/increase the quantity of smoke, chemical or ICM), you are not allowed to fine-tune that aspect of the game either
Cheers,
Panta

_____________________________

Panta Astiazarán

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 9
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [Modern] >> FlashPoint Germany >> smoke screens Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.641