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Beta testers blog - 9/5/2006 1:10:54 AM   
nmleague

 

Posts: 2361
Joined: 1/14/2006
Status: offline 		David has given beta testers permission to post some comments about changes/improvements to the game for the next release, which is comeing close. I will start with some comments below, but perhaps Maruaders, Tbird, Tullis, or Old Coach Etc., will also post some insights here.
Post #: 1
RE: Beta testers blog - 9/5/2006 1:27:22 AM   
nmleague

 

Posts: 2361
Joined: 1/14/2006
Status: offline 		In one of my last posts in the graphics thread, I mentiioned that I was limiting the size of my leagues due to the schedule generator. So I will start the blog by explaining that further.

With the previous release the schedule generator was screwed up, I created a 12 team league, 2 divisions of 6 teams, with a 14 game schedule, like the NFL in the 50's and 60's. The official schedule for the league at that time had each team play each other team in their division 2 times (10 games) and to play 4 games vs teams from the other division. Well when I had the game generate a schedule for this league, teams from one division were playing teams from the other division 2-3 times and not playing some of the teams from their own division at all.

The beta team pushed David to improve the schedule generation. The logic being that most high school and college conferences will play a single round robin with additional games vs non conference teams to fill out the schedule. Most professional leagues have the team within a division play a double round robin with additional games vs non division teams to again fill out the schedule. For this release David couldnt do a full blown schedule generator, but he has now installed a round robin schedule generator, with some limitations. As it is once the number of weeks of a season have bee choosen, the schedule generator will generate a round robin scheduel. If you had a league with 40 teams with a 16 games schedule, each team will play 16 different teams during the season, no teams twice. If you have 12 teams and a 14 week season, each team will play each team once (11 games) and then the round robin will repeat until 14 games are completed. So each team will play each team in the league one time and 3 teams twice.

The reason that I mentioned in my other thread that I would limit the number of teams in a conference, is becuase we cant control how the round robin in generated. So its possible that teams will play teams from other divisions two times, but teams from their own division only once. David is hoping to have a schedulel editor ready for this release, but even so it is possible to edit the schedule using Excel. But I think it is still going to be much easier to edit a schedule for a 12 or 16 team league vs the schedule for a 32 team league.

Currently my plan is to have 12 team leagues, 3 divisions of 4 teams, for a 14 week season. The schedule generator will generate a round robin, of which I will use the first 11 games as is, each team playing each other team in the league. I will then edit the schedule so that the remain 3 games of the schedule would have teams playing the other teams in their division a second time.

If the editing of the schedule works well I would still like to do a 48 teams college league, 4 conferences fo 13 teams. .

(in reply to nmleague)
Post #: 2
RE: Beta testers blog - 9/5/2006 2:45:35 AM   
dreamtheatervt


Posts: 483
Joined: 4/22/2006
From: Virginia
Status: offline 		My college league will be more true to D-I. I'll probably do 8 or 10 teams per division, 3 divisions per conference.

Letters Conference: ACC, Big East (if the uniforms ever get finished), SEC
Numbers Conference: Big 10, Big 12, Pac 10.

If one of the non-BCS conferences had a number in it, I'd expand to 4 divisions per conference, but I can't have the MAC or MWC in the numbers conference, and using geography makes too much sense, and that's just not the NCAA way . The other geography problem is that there are more conferences in the east, so I'd have a Eastern conference in the West (just like Atlanta used to be in the NFC West).

I can't wait for R3, I'm jacked for football season.

(in reply to nmleague)
Post #: 3
RE: Beta testers blog - 9/5/2006 5:41:20 AM   
nmleague

 

Posts: 2361
Joined: 1/14/2006
Status: offline 		For awhile the beta was having trouble with punt returns, if the ball was punted toward the sideline, and if it hit the ground and rolled to within a few yards of the sideline, the punt return men were getting almost an automatic 10-15 yard return and in many cases they would go down the sidelines for a TD.  The problem was in the cover kick logic, the covereage men were going down field and targeting the man with the ball.  So when the ball hit the ground and bounced to the sideline the coverage men did not move with the ball to the sideline, they stopped and stood still until the ball was picked up.  Of course the return man by this time was 5-10 yards outside the widest return man.

David has improved the logic, now the cover men target the ball and then the man with the ball.  So now if the ball is kicked to the sideline the coverage men move to the sideline.  This has eliminated the cheap sideline returns.

< Message edited by nmleague -- 9/5/2006 7:01:40 AM >

(in reply to dreamtheatervt)
Post #: 4
RE: Beta testers blog - 9/5/2006 6:59:49 AM   
Tbird


Posts: 1187
Joined: 12/15/2004
Status: offline 		The biggest addition for me other than the new PDS was the exportable draft profiles and the player movement 

(in reply to nmleague)
Post #: 5
RE: Beta testers blog - 9/5/2006 7:04:31 AM   
nmleague

 

Posts: 2361
Joined: 1/14/2006
Status: offline 		Yes the draft/team profiles are nice. Now users can set up the draft profile for a team and save it. That profile can then be imported and used by other teams. Its possible that a number of profiles will be available with the next release.

(in reply to Tbird)
Post #: 6
RE: Beta testers blog - 9/5/2006 7:10:17 AM   
nmleague

 

Posts: 2361
Joined: 1/14/2006
Status: offline 		Tbird brought up another nice improvement. David has improved the open field running logic. Before a runner going outside would go as far outside as the last movement point and then head straight up field. Now the man with the ball will actually realize were the defenders are and try to avoid them, plays starting off tackle will now often have the running back moving out to and down the side line. I think that plays actually get strung out to the sideline to often, many times the back could probably turn upfield and put their heads down to gain a few yards.

It should also be pointed out the the whole defensive flow to the ball is much smoother and realistic. It is now very difficult for a running back to break a long run.

(in reply to nmleague)
Post #: 7
RE: Beta testers blog - 9/5/2006 7:38:14 PM   
nmleague

 

Posts: 2361
Joined: 1/14/2006
Status: offline 		David made some major improvements that we didnt expect, and they have had a very positive impact on the game.  The most recent has a big impact, it is a change in the ball movement physics, which I will let someone else explain more, but the major result is that the frame problems seem to have been eliminated.  My system is a pentium 4 2.66 with an ATI 9700 card.  At times I would get the message that my frame rate was to low and the graphics setting were going to be changed becuase of that, also that instant replays were going to be stopped.  After the change mentioned above I no longer get the frame rate message and I get instant replays thoughout the whole game.  It also has an impact on other aspects such as the passing game and kicks.  Maybe someone else can give some more information.

But this was a big improvement

< Message edited by nmleague -- 9/5/2006 7:39:06 PM >

(in reply to nmleague)
Post #: 8
RE: Beta testers blog - 9/5/2006 7:51:11 PM   
Dark Horse


Posts: 29
Joined: 2/4/2006
Status: offline 		How does passing look? Do QBs now look at all receivers? In the current version, if you run the same passing play ten times, it will be thrown to the same player every time.

_____________________________

Everytime i call it a business you call it a game. But when i call it a game you call it a business!

(in reply to nmleague)
Post #: 9
RE: Beta testers blog - 9/5/2006 8:00:37 PM   
nmleague

 

Posts: 2361
Joined: 1/14/2006
Status: offline 		The passing game has been changed. You no longer assign one player as the primary receiver, instead when you give the QB the logic "pass" and "read", you can now set a read progression for the QB. So in the PDS you click on the R you want him to check first and then click on the plus sign, then you click on the player you want him to check 2nd, and then click on the plus sign, and so on. From what I have seen the QB will go through the progression and will throw to different receivers, I have seen the QB throw to a player that I know is the 3rd player in the progression.

There are still some minor adjustments being made so that the completion rate is comparable to what you would see in real life. Currently the rate is a little low, before the last build rates were probably about 65-75%, now closer to 50-55%. I should mention that you will see interceptions. In a recent CPU vs CPU played game one team had 3 interceptions and the other 2. I have seen a DB step in front of a R running an out rooute, intercept and take it in for a TD, very nice.

< Message edited by nmleague -- 9/5/2006 8:05:36 PM >

(in reply to Dark Horse)
Post #: 10
RE: Beta testers blog - 9/5/2006 9:17:18 PM   
simmer

 

Posts: 572
Joined: 11/20/2004
From: Pittsburgh,Pa
Status: offline 		Can you tell me if there is a closer sdeline view camera angle...I play coach mode and this is a must. The present sideline view is way too far. I hope this gets released very soon,it sounds like it was improved to where it is competitive. Thanks for the updates.

(in reply to nmleague)
Post #: 11
RE: Beta testers blog - 9/5/2006 10:00:03 PM   
nmleague

 

Posts: 2361
Joined: 1/14/2006
Status: offline 		The sideline view has been moved in, maybe it could be a little closer but it is better than before. The other views havent really been changed and the F6 is to far away and the f8 depends on field position since it is locked at about the 15 yard line, so if your close it is a great view but if you are on the other end of the field forget it.

(in reply to simmer)
Post #: 12
RE: Beta testers blog - 9/5/2006 11:08:42 PM   
Dark Horse


Posts: 29
Joined: 2/4/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks for the info NML, looking forward to the new release. With the improved passing and overall improvements to PDS i'll soon be "ready for some football!"

And KUTGW on the screen shots. You've done designed some very good fictional teams.

_____________________________

Everytime i call it a business you call it a game. But when i call it a game you call it a business!

(in reply to nmleague)
Post #: 13
RE: Beta testers blog - 9/5/2006 11:27:51 PM   
grrncore


Posts: 78
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		Any Hints on a release date? September?October?November?December?

(in reply to Dark Horse)
Post #: 14
RE: Beta testers blog - 9/6/2006 12:16:17 AM   
Tbird


Posts: 1187
Joined: 12/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: grrncore

Any Hints on a release date? September?October?November?December?



http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1166485&mpage=2#

(in reply to grrncore)
Post #: 15
RE: Beta testers blog - 9/6/2006 5:43:32 AM   
Tbird


Posts: 1187
Joined: 12/15/2004
Status: offline 		I like the F6 view the way it is I don't think it's too far
I played fbpro in an overhead view about that same distance and it allowed me to see everything.  If it gets moved any closer you won't be able to see the receivers downfield.


_____________________________


http://www.thornbird.net/downloads/maximum-football/maximum-football-downloads.htm

(in reply to Tbird)
Post #: 16
RE: Beta testers blog - 9/6/2006 6:07:59 AM   
nmleague

 

Posts: 2361
Joined: 1/14/2006
Status: offline 		It might have been mention before, but if not, it is now possible to start a CPU vs CPU game, leave and not come back until the game is complete.  No more having to click the continue button on the stats screen.

(in reply to Tbird)
Post #: 17
RE: Beta testers blog - 9/6/2006 9:14:15 AM   
Marauders

 

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: offline
quote:

Can you tell me if there is a closer sideline view camera angle...I play coach mode and this is a must. The present sideline view is way too far. I hope this gets released very soon,it sounds like it was improved to where it is competitive. Thanks for the updates.


The views are pretty much the same.  As I recall, the sideline view is a bit closer, but I can hardly remember what it was like before.  There has been quite a bit of discussion about it.  Myself and Old Coach have pushed for adding zoom to all camera angles, but that may be something for Release 4, as there are some other changes likely instore for that release, and time is short on this one.

There will be zoom in the PDS 2.0, and that really helps, but I am not sure how easy it would be to program that in for the views during the game.

quote:

David has improved the open field running logic. Before a runner going outside would go as far outside as the last movement point and then head straight up field. Now the man with the ball will actually realize were the defenders are and try to avoid them, plays starting off tackle will now often have the running back moving out to and down the side line.


This also gives each back a run vision profile based on skill attributes.  Some testing is being done in this area.

quote:

How does passing look? Do QBs now look at all receivers? In the current version, if you run the same passing play ten times, it will be thrown to the same player every time.


I had noticed that as well. The PDS has been changed to give the quarterback a read progressions list of receivers. This is much more realistic, but it will require coaches to make clean plays. Sloppy timing will give poor results, as it is in the real world.






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Marauders -- 9/6/2006 9:49:29 AM >

(in reply to nmleague)
Post #: 18
RE: Beta testers blog - 9/8/2006 7:25:50 AM   
Dark Horse


Posts: 29
Joined: 2/4/2006
Status: offline 		Run vision sounds great. That's something that i always thought was missing from football games/sims. There should be a noticable difference in backs as far as knowing when to cut. i hope it works out.

And the QB Read Progression looks great! KUTGW guys!

_____________________________

Everytime i call it a business you call it a game. But when i call it a game you call it a business!

(in reply to Marauders)
Post #: 19
RE: Beta testers blog - 10/3/2006 11:20:17 PM   
nmleague

 

Posts: 2361
Joined: 1/14/2006
Status: offline 		As the release 3 draws nearer I thought I would report on one of the changes in the last few builds.  The beta team has pushed David to make punt/fair catch etc. more realistic.  Trying to make a punting/return/fair catch system that with Canadian and US rules has been a very difficutl task, especially for someone fimiliar with Canadian rules which are much different than the US rules.  There is no fair catch in Canadian football, nor touch backs, and if the punt is live so either team can get the ball once punted.  I think that is correct, someone correct me if it not, but you can see the problems when trying to come up with a system that works for both US and Canadian football.

Anyway here is the current system, its not going to please everyone, but it works well in the game.  On a punt that would from the 15 yard line out the PR will either fair catch the punt or return it.  On punts that would land inside the 15 yard line the PR will let the ball go, it can either bounce into the endzone for a touchback or will be downed by a player from the punting team.

I should also mention that during the course of release 3 developement the punt coverage has been improved.  Previously the cover team had logic that had them focusing on the PR, if the punt went to the sidelines, of if the ball hit the ground and bounced, the cover men wouldnt follow the ball but instead stood and waited for the PR to pick up the ball.  If he did this near the sideline he had a clear shoot down the sidelines until the cover team reacted to him with the ball.  Currently the cover team has logic that has them focus on the ball until it is caught of picked up, at which time they go to the ball carrier.  Thus if the punt is to the sidelines, or hits and bouces,the cover team move to the ball, and if the PR now picks it up near the sidelines he will have coverage men near him.

(in reply to Dark Horse)
Post #: 20
RE: Beta testers blog - 10/4/2006 1:27:15 AM   
nmleague

 

Posts: 2361
Joined: 1/14/2006
Status: offline 		When release 3 goes public there will be a number of playbooks available this time.  Using PDS 2 several beta team memebers have been creating playbooks.  I have created a number of pro and college type offenses and defeneses which I have used to create 4 pro playbooks and 9 college playbooks.  They have all been tested and Im satisfied with the plays.  But the playbook profiles need work, I have set some profiles, but after watching a number of CPU vs CPU games lately I have seen that each offense and defense needs a number of additional profiles set.  After the release if anyone is interested in testing the playbooks and helping create profiles let me know.  Here is list of the playbooks that are ready for the release, I may add an I formation offense to increase the pro playbooks to 6.

Pro playbooks

  T formation offense, pro 43 defense
  T formation offense, pro 34 defense
  One back offense, pro 43 defense
  One back offense, pro 34 defense

College

I formation offense, 52 college defense
I formation offense,  college 43 defense
I formation offense,  62 defense

Wishbone offense, 52 college defense
Wishbone offense, college 43 defense
Wishbone offense,  62 defense

T formation offense, 52 college defense
 T formation offense, college 43 defense
T formation offense, 62 defense

Im sure many people will want to create their own playbooks or modified those that come with the game.  But the additional playbooks will allow users to assign a great variety of playbooks to the teams of a league.  In testing it is interesting to see how the different defenses and offenses matchup.

(in reply to nmleague)
Post #: 21
RE: Beta testers blog - 10/4/2006 2:50:29 AM   
simmer

 

Posts: 572
Joined: 11/20/2004
From: Pittsburgh,Pa
Status: offline 		Thank you,  saves me work....Can we now release the game ?

(in reply to nmleague)
Post #: 22
RE: Beta testers blog - 10/4/2006 4:26:27 PM   
nmleague

 

Posts: 2361
Joined: 1/14/2006
Status: offline 		Here is more detail on the team/draft profiles.

Users will be able to edit a teams team/draft profile.  You will be able to edit which position will be taken for each round of the draft, and assigning the two atributes that are the main and secondary ranking to determine the player.  As it is now you can determine the draft order for only a max of 35 rounds of the draft, if the draft is longer the remaining players are draft by the computer to fill the teams profile.  So you can only set the draft specifics for 35 round, but you edit the rest of the 45 slots to get determine the number of players  for each position on the roster.  Hope that isnt to confusing.

Now for a good part, these edited team/draft profiles can then be exported, they are saved in a folder in the Maximum game folder.  These team/draft profiles can then also be imported to different teams.  As example I have created 3 custom team/draft profiles, Strong defense, Run offense, Pass offense, and have exported them, when I set up a new league I can now import a team/draft profile for every team in the league.  As long as the roster size is the same the profiles can be used for any number of teams and leagues.

Better yet, I think this correct, if you set up a league of say 16 teams with one team being human controlled.  You can import or edit a team/draft profile for that team, the computer will then randomly assign team/draft profiles for the rest of the teams using profiles that are saved in the team/draft profile folder. 

It will take a little work at first, or maybe not as a number of team/draft profiles have alreay been created by beta team users, but the system is a nice improvement over the initial release.  This should give the teams in a league much for variety and is more realistic.

< Message edited by nmleague -- 10/4/2006 4:29:08 PM >

(in reply to simmer)
Post #: 23
RE: Beta testers blog - 10/4/2006 10:37:08 PM   
Brockleigh


Posts: 418
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		A couple of things for the Beta testers when trying the Punting Return Rules in the Candian game, using mnleague's post from 10/3:

quote:

There is no fair catch in Canadian football

Yes, that's correct.
quote:

nor touch backs,

There are. They result in a single point being awarded to the punting team, and the ball being brought out to the 35 yard line.
quote:

and if the punt is live so either team can get the ball once punted.

Yes and no. Most of the punting team must respect a five yard halo around the ball until the returner touches it, but the punter (and any member of the kicking team behind the punter at the time of the kick) are onside and may recover the punted ball prior to it being touched by the return team.

For this reason, in the Canadian game, if the returner wanted to let the ball bounce into the endzone for the Single and Touchback, he'd have to retreat into the endzone and down the ball. 

(in reply to nmleague)
Post #: 24
RE: Beta testers blog - 10/5/2006 5:27:39 AM   
David Winter

 

Posts: 5158
Joined: 11/24/2004
From: Vancouver, BC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brockleigh

quote:

nor touch backs,

There are. They result in a single point being awarded to the punting team, and the ball being brought out to the 35 yard line. and if the punt is live so either team can get the ball once punted.



You're correct. I think what the poster was getting at is that they're not touchbacks in the US Football sense of the word as the ball placement is different and there is the single point aspect.

The game processes the Canadian rules in this regard properly.


< Message edited by David Winter -- 10/5/2006 7:12:41 AM >

(in reply to Brockleigh)
Post #: 25
RE: Beta testers blog - 10/5/2006 6:23:36 AM   
dreamtheatervt


Posts: 483
Joined: 4/22/2006
From: Virginia
Status: offline 		speaking of fixing rules...how feasable would it be to set the timing rules closer to the "old, better timing rules" for college football, i.e. no 1/2/3 minute warning and clock stops temporarily on first downs (like get 6-7 seconds to call the play before the clock winds in the last 5 minutes). First one seems easy, second one might be too much to ask for, but I can ask.

(in reply to David Winter)
Post #: 26
RE: Beta testers blog - 10/10/2006 10:04:47 PM   
nmleague

 

Posts: 2361
Joined: 1/14/2006
Status: offline 		"HUGE NEWS"

I know everyone is waiting for release 3 to be released, and the time is drawing near. But just so you dont think David is wasting his time. He surprised the beta team with a new build today that basically gives the PDS/game the same coverage abilities that FSP 91-98 had. You can have m2m coverage, cover backs or non backs, use speed or hands or whatever to allocate the defenders to receivers. You will be able to bump on the line, and have under, over or deep coverage shading. Something Im not sure that FPS allowed is to have one defender just assigned to the "hot" receiver. I have spent some time today editing the defenses I created, man to man, blitzes and double coverages, and I can say it is working fantistically.

The zone coverage template has not been changed. Im not sure that cant be worked around, I have created a number of zones with just 2 deep coverage. I give two DBs a move to command, deep, to locations that kind of split the field, and then give them zone coverage, it seems to work. If I recall, even though you could draw out the zones you wanted in FPS, many times it was beter to make the zone a very small box, vs a large box, so this is similar.

(in reply to nmleague)
Post #: 27
RE: Beta testers blog - 10/11/2006 2:38:19 AM   
Dark Horse


Posts: 29
Joined: 2/4/2006
Status: offline 		That IS huge news NML! Thanks for the update.

M2M sounds great. There was a game out there where you could tell a defender to cover the "hot" receiver. i can't remember if that was FPS or Playmaker... i think it was playmaker.

Too bad about the zones. Although i do remember drawing the small zones in either FPS or early (pre-consoles) Madden. It helped keep offenses from being able to flood your zones. So, if you can move a player to a particular spot and have him "sit", that won't too bad. But still i would like to be able to draw a zone in future releases, if at all possible.

_____________________________

Everytime i call it a business you call it a game. But when i call it a game you call it a business!

(in reply to nmleague)
Post #: 28
RE: Beta testers blog - 10/11/2006 3:25:10 AM   
Marauders

 

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: offline
quote:

There was a game out there where you could tell a defender to cover the "hot" receiver.


FPS98 had that ability.

There was a game out there where you could tell a defender to cover the "hot" receiver.

quote:

Although i do remember drawing the small zones in either FPS or early (pre-consoles) Madden. It helped keep offenses from being able to flood your zones. So, if you can move a player to a particular spot and have him "sit", that won't too bad. But still i would like to be able to draw a zone in future releases, if at all possible.


David has stated that he would like to get zone changes, be it templates or drawn areas, done prior to Release 4.  It is sort of on his Release 3.5 to do list, but there have been major changes in defensive logic and only so much time can be taken in one area.  As soon as I know more, I will post an update.  I believe that defensive changes in Release 3 will really help those waiting for a robust AI.


(in reply to Dark Horse)
Post #: 29
RE: Beta testers blog - 10/11/2006 8:17:37 PM   
Frenzy

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 12/20/2004
Status: offline 		Has David worked on the interface for the next version? There were a few things I noticed like on some menus you could get a drop down and others you couldn't. Another thing I hope was addressed was when viewing a roster for one team and switching to another team it would reset the view. For instance if I was viewing my QBs on my team and switched to another team I would have to reselect the QBs for that team. This made it hard to compare positions, injuries etc. I know neither of the examples is a bug but if David tweaked the interface maybe these were changed in the process?

(in reply to nmleague)
Post #: 30
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