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RE: MWiF Map Review - America - 5/24/2008 4:55:50 PM   
wfzimmerman


Posts: 660
Joined: 10/22/2003
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Here is this place in the world, after Norman & Jason input. Rivers & Lakes cannot be changed easily, so if they are done, this will be in the future.





So in the land of 15,000 lakes there is not a single lake visible on the map? and they pose no impediment to movement? as someone who has driven a car around that region, it does take quite a bit longer to get from point A to point B when you have to circle around a long lake to get there....

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(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 601
RE: MWiF Map Review - America - 5/24/2008 5:47:16 PM   
Norman42


Posts: 244
Joined: 2/9/2008
From: Canada
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The main concentration of lakes are represented by the swamps in the north. Most of the lakes in the region are under 2 miles across, so while they do make for a 'wet' landscape, they aren't large enough to completely block movement the way a full lake hexside would. Rainy Lake, which would be on the border hexside extending north west from the "P" in Pigeon is about the only lake large enough to cover a whole hexside and could be added I suppose.

The forests now covering the majority of the northern area is a fair enough representation of the movement difficulty through wood/lakes/moraines that any vehicles would have here.



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Post #: 602
RE: MWiF Map Review - America - 5/24/2008 6:56:40 PM   
Astarix

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 5/20/2008
From: Hampton, Minnesota
Status: offline 		The only other lake that would warrant inclusion, is Lake Peppin on the MN, WI border as it is approximately 70 km long and about 10 wide

Otherwise, Norman has described why I requested the changes that have been made to the map. While there are many lakes, the problem is one of scale. The map scale is 89km, I think I read? Which means the larger lakes; Mill Lacs, Winibigoshish, Leech, and the Upper and Lower Red Lake resevoirs, while large, are not large enough to be represented on the map. The one possible exeption would be Red Lake. None of them are over 45km long or wide, which is the requirement to appear on a hexside.

Jason

(in reply to Norman42)
Post #: 603
RE: MWiF Map Review - America - 5/24/2008 11:06:44 PM   
Froonp


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Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Astarix
You also may want to look into adding a couple of hexsides for the St. Croix river from the hexide that divides the label for St. Paul, then 1 hex to the NE and then maybe 1 more hex to the North.  The River in this area is wide enough to impede easy crossing.  The banks of the river are very steep in many places and generally are 30-40 feet above the river bed.  To the South of the Mississippi (at the hexide that divides the label for the Mississippi) you could reasonably add several Hexsides running generally SW for the Minnesota River, at least to where the location of Mankato is on a map.  The river valley in this area is wide and filled with marshy and lake filled lowlands.  In the Minneapolis-St. Paul region where it merges with the Mississippi the valley is over a mile wide with bluffs on both banks that are as much as 100ft high where it joins the Mississippi.

Jason, you depicted the St Croix River on your sketch map, but not the Minnesota River.
Would this be a correct drawing of both of them ?




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Post #: 604
RE: MWiF Map Review - America - 5/24/2008 11:30:02 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline 		Still about the USA, but Oregon this time.
We already corrected the Willamette River Mouths, so that Portland and the river are better placed, but I fear that the upstream Willamette is not properly depicted.
The Below is the Willamette as depicted on the map, and the 2 other views are the Willamette as found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willamette_River. The center map shows Willamette River watershed, and the rightmost one show the tributaries of the Willamette River. According to the center map, our drawing is wrong, but according to the rightmost map our drawing could be the better one to depict the waterways that can block movement.

So, is the Willamette River right ?

Any Oregon inhabitant here ?




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Post #: 605
RE: MWiF Map Review - America - 5/24/2008 11:33:17 PM   
marcuswatney

 

Posts: 279
Joined: 2/28/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: marcuswatney
Going back to Post 377, I think Dominica needs to be identified as CW, as it lies between two French possessions.

When the mouse is on it, there is "Dominica, British Antilles" written in the status bar of the game. Do you think that his would be enough ?

quote:

Also, who owns the islands between US Virgin and French Antilles (1 hex E and 1 hex NE of St Thomas)?

It is British Antilles too.

If inconsequential islets like St Eustatius are given an identifying '(Ned)' then I think larger islands like Dominica should be given something immediately visible without needing to hover the cursor.

But I also feel that at present the eastern Caribbean is very cluttered with large red names and many red political boundaries which all draw the eye away from the islands themselves and the terrain to be fought over.

One solution would be to perhaps keep the present red font for independent nations like Haiti and the Dominican Republic, but user a smaller one (or mixed upper and lower case) for colonies.

And why does tiny St Bathélemy appear when the dominant island in that hex is (British) Anguilla? Anguilla is an island well known to Britons of my age since we invaded it in 1969 with London bobbies. (And St Bathélemy is 100 km from Barbuda so a crossing arrow is inappropriate).

If we replaced St Bathélemy with Anguilla then the British Antilles would consist of six islands in a single sweep (plus Dominica), all a single territory whose control switches with St John's (surely not 'Saint Johns'?) That would make the map look a lot less confused.

St Kitts was called St Christopher in 1936, and St Eustatius is very close: the crossing arrow is justified, but please move the image of the island closer to St Kitts.

St Lucia is very British, yet it is identified as French because of a small amount of Martinique crossing over into its hex. St Lucia and Dominica are the same size, with Martinique just a little bit bigger. I would think all three should be one-hex islands, but if for game purposes it is desirable for Martinique to be two hexes (and there may be good reasons to invade it if it is Vichy French) then please shift the image east a little and have the second Martinique hex the one to the southeast.

The unnamed US Virgin islands are Isle de Vieques and Santa Cruz. The unnamed British Antilles islands at the northwestern end of the chain are Virgin Gorda (next to St Thomas) and Anegada.

Could we have a look at the depiction of the Bahamas and Bermuda please?


(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 606
RE: MWiF Map Review - America - 5/24/2008 11:54:43 PM   
marcuswatney

 

Posts: 279
Joined: 2/28/2006
Status: offline 		How large does the population have to be before it is eligible to be classed as a city?  I estimate Fort-de-France was about 70,000 in the forties, quite a significant size for the Caribbean.

(in reply to marcuswatney)
Post #: 607
RE: MWiF Map Review - America - 5/25/2008 12:24:15 AM   
Froonp


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From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marcuswatney
If inconsequential islets like St Eustatius are given an identifying '(Ned)' then I think larger islands like Dominica should be given something immediately visible without needing to hover the cursor.

I added "(Ned)" to St Eustatius because it was lost amongst French & British islands. I did not add the owning country's initial after all islands, because it would clutter the map too much.

quote:

But I also feel that at present the eastern Caribbean is very cluttered with large red names and many red political boundaries which all draw the eye away from the islands themselves and the terrain to be fought over.

One solution would be to perhaps keep the present red font for independent nations like Haiti and the Dominican Republic, but user a smaller one (or mixed upper and lower case) for colonies.

I prefer to have a consistent naming scheme, where a size & color means something.

quote:

And why does tiny St Bathélemy appear when the dominant island in that hex is (British) Anguilla? Anguilla is an island well known to Britons of my age since we invaded it in 1969 with London bobbies. (And St Bathélemy is 100 km from Barbuda so a crossing arrow is inappropriate).

This island was in a hex belonging to French Antilles, from the CWiF days. So, naming one of its islands for an English island looked weird. Moreover, this place is cluttered with lots of islands that the hexgrid can't show all of them properly with their rightfull owned country. So I chose to put the St Bathélemy place, that is famous at least in France for its rich visitors nowadays. I could have put St Martin too, which is in the same hex. But St Martin is both Dutch & French, so putting St Bathélemy looks OK.
The crossing arrow is not necessarily between St Bathélemy and Barbuda, it is between both hexes. It may be other islands.

quote:

If we replaced St Bathélemy with Anguilla then the British Antilles would consist of six islands in a single sweep (plus Dominica), all a single territory whose control switches with St John's (surely not 'Saint Johns'?) That would make the map look a lot less confused.

I prefer to stay minimalistic with the changes from the original map, and to leave it this way. The countries were decided in the CWiF days, and we inherited from them that way. I trust the original map designer here. His take is plausible, even if cluttered.

quote:

St Kitts was called St Christopher in 1936, and St Eustatius is very close: the crossing arrow is justified, but please move the image of the island closer to St Kitts.

On my 1940 map from the Collier Atlas, it is named St Kitts. Also it is shorter, and personaly I know it better with this name. Granted the drawn St Eustatius looks far from St Kitts, but this hex also houses Saba (not drawn) that is quite far. I think we won't redraw this just because St Eustatius is too far away.

quote:

St Lucia is very British, yet it is identified as French because of a small amount of Martinique crossing over into its hex. St Lucia and Dominica are the same size, with Martinique just a little bit bigger. I would think all three should be one-hex islands, but if for game purposes it is desirable for Martinique to be two hexes (and there may be good reasons to invade it if it is Vichy French) then please shift the image east a little and have the second Martinique hex the one to the southeast.

I think that this is too much work for little result here. I know St Lucia is British (it was French before), but the place here is quite packed tight, and shifting Martinique to the east as you describe would look weird.

quote:

The unnamed US Virgin islands are Isle de Vieques and Santa Cruz.

I'll add these names.
I have the latter as Saint Croix Island on my 1940 Collier Atlas map. Would it be good ? Saint Croix means the same as Santa Cruz.
I have the former as simply Vieques.

quote:

The unnamed British Antilles islands at the northwestern end of the chain are Virgin Gorda (next to St Thomas) and Anegada.

I'll add the former. The latter is already on the map.

Here are the Bahamas. Also they are shown in Steve's posts of page 18 in this thread. Bermuda are visible in post #515.




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Post #: 608
RE: MWiF Map Review - America - 5/25/2008 12:26:46 AM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline 		For the records, we inherited from a map that looked like that from CWiF initialy.





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Post #: 609
RE: MWiF Map Review - America - 5/25/2008 12:30:07 AM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
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From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marcuswatney

How large does the population have to be before it is eligible to be classed as a city?  I estimate Fort-de-France was about 70,000 in the forties, quite a significant size for the Caribbean.

I have populations of 46k in 1940 and 52k in 1944 (from my 1940 & 1944 Collier Map Atlases & Gazetteers).
The population needed for a city is normaly about 100k, but many WiF cities are exceptions to this. I mean, not all 100k+ cities in the world are on the WiF map, and not all WiF cities are 100k+ real world cities.

(in reply to marcuswatney)
Post #: 610
RE: MWiF Map Review - America - 5/25/2008 12:32:53 AM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

For the records, we inherited from a map that looked like that from CWiF initialy.



And we made this into that :
And the Caribbean were a hell to do compared to other places.




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< Message edited by Froonp -- 5/25/2008 12:36:04 AM >

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Post #: 611
RE: MWiF Map Review - America - 5/25/2008 12:57:07 AM   
marcuswatney

 

Posts: 279
Joined: 2/28/2006
Status: offline 		Could we just remove St Lucia then, so that hex is entirely Martinique?  It is better to choose not to show an island at all than to show it belonging to the wrong country.

Also, according to Wiki, at this time St Bathélemy was administered as part of Guadeloupe, so presumably the two are defined as one territory, with St Bathélemy falling with Basse-Terre?

< Message edited by marcuswatney -- 5/25/2008 12:59:13 AM >

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Post #: 612
RE: MWiF Map Review - America - 5/25/2008 1:19:42 AM   
marcuswatney

 

Posts: 279
Joined: 2/28/2006
Status: offline 		I see that St Eustatius is part of the territory of the Netherlands Antilles (what you call the Dutch West Indies) so presumably falls when Willemstad is captured.

Aruba was extraordinarily important as it had huge refineries that processed Venzuelan oil before shipping it on to the USA.  Until I understood this, the statistics seemed weird: a tiny island with vast imports of crude oil that seemed to disappear, and vast exports of petroleum that appeared to come from nowhere. I suppose there is no way of showing this, as a factory would benefit the Netherlands rather than the USA. But it would have been a target of considerable importance in the area.

And would it not be wise to name the 'Caribbean Sea' something more appropriate, like 'Southeastern Seabord'? I appreciate that it needs to be drawn this way so that a single convoy can get Venezuelan oil back to the USA, but it is very odd having Bermuda on the border of the Caribbean!

< Message edited by marcuswatney -- 5/25/2008 1:35:42 AM >

(in reply to marcuswatney)
Post #: 613
RE: MWiF Map Review - America - 5/25/2008 1:32:42 AM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marcuswatney
Could we just remove St Lucia then, so that hex is entirely Martinique?  It is better to choose not to show an island at all than to show it belonging to the wrong country.

This is the same case as Bornholm in the Baltic, Elba in the Med, Anguilla & St Martin here, and probably a lot more. I prefer leaving it as is than removing it.
quote:

Also, according to Wiki, at this time St Bathélemy was administered as part of Guadeloupe, so presumably the two are defined as one territory, with St Bathélemy falling with Basse-Terre?

Here St Bathélemy is part of a Territory named "French Antilles", independent from Guadeloupe.

< Message edited by Froonp -- 5/25/2008 1:34:17 AM >

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Post #: 614
RE: MWiF Map Review - America - 5/25/2008 1:54:53 AM   
Norman42


Posts: 244
Joined: 2/9/2008
From: Canada
Status: offline 		-St. Martin was the administrative center for the French Antillies(and a beautiful isle I might add, cruised there a few years back and the combined French/Dutch culture is truly unique), so I'd recommend changing St. Bartholemew, which in 1940 was very insignificant other then a few plantations, to St. Martin.  The fact that the Netherlands administrated part of the isle isn't important overall, the French took over security functions for the isle from 1919 onwards.

-The isle of Grenada has a typo, it is listed as Grenade (a very explosive place!).

-St. Croix, Virgin Isles is the better name for Santa Cruz; it has gone by St Croix for the better part of 400 years of its 500 year history, and has been known as St Croix since 1898.

-Also, having sailed to nearly every one of these isles of the Lesser Antillies, I have to wonder why only one of them is jungle. Every single one that I visited is mountainous and covered in dense greenery. From Guadaloupe southwards to Trinidad all are jungle covered mountains. Barbados was a bit more level, and clear is more reasonable. The Virgin Is east to Antigua are less dense growth but still fairly rough terrain.

-Puerto Rico, isn't really that mountainous, compared to the rest of them I think it has more flat area as a percentage of square miles.



< Message edited by Norman42 -- 5/25/2008 2:05:53 AM >

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Post #: 615
RE: MWiF Map Review - America - 5/25/2008 2:30:58 AM   
lomyrin


Posts: 3741
Joined: 12/21/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		Puerto Rico has a narrow flatland strectch along the coasts but  the interior is quite mountainous.

Lars

(in reply to Norman42)
Post #: 616
RE: MWiF Map Review - America - 5/25/2008 3:16:28 AM   
Astarix

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 5/20/2008
From: Hampton, Minnesota
Status: offline 		Patrice,

Sorry, I forgot to upload a map with the Minnesota on it. Here you go. Also added the location of Lake Peppin, in case you want it. Its big enough for inclusion, but probably isnt that important of a place.

Also, I don't know if its worth the effort or not, but you might want to consider adding the city of Fargo. The Twin Cities of the North, Fargo-Morhead was an important rail junction and central collection and shipping point for Wheat, Sugar Beats and Corn. The Sugar Beats are processed locally and the Corn and Wheat were shipped to Minneapolis for milling or to Duluth and Superior for shipment east across the lakes. 1940 census for the immediate cities and suburbs was 80,000.

3 railroads ran west through those towns. The Great Northern, The Northern Pacific and the Chicago-Milwaukee-St.Paul & Pacific. And of course the rail line that runs North-South on the North Dakota side of the Red River up to Winnepeg. If you were to add Fargo-Moorhead, I would put it in the northern half of the southern most river hex of the Red River and move the rail line to go through the same hex. Fargo is and was the largetst city in North Dakota.

Anyway here is the map with the Minnesota River. It actually runs all the way to the MN-South Dakota border, but the western most sections, although fairly wide are not that deep. The sections I've drawn in are wide, and also include a lot of bogs and lakes, in the river bottoms.






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Post #: 617
RE: MWiF Map Review - America - 5/25/2008 3:19:01 AM   
Astarix

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 5/20/2008
From: Hampton, Minnesota
Status: offline 		Those 2 hexes to the NE of the U.S. Virgin Islands are the British Virgin Islands.

Jason

(in reply to marcuswatney)
Post #: 618
RE: MWiF Map Review - America - 5/25/2008 9:57:21 AM   
Joshuatree

 

Posts: 507
Joined: 12/30/2007
From: Netherlands
Status: offline 		I've got a question about the Dutch West Indies and St. Eustatius. It says (NED) ... isn't that supposed to be "Dutch" or "Netherlands", "Neth" ?  Because "NED" is derived from the Dutch "Nederland".

(in reply to Astarix)
Post #: 619
RE: MWiF Map Review - America - 5/25/2008 10:20:10 AM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Astarix
Sorry, I forgot to upload a map with the Minnesota on it. Here you go. Also added the location of Lake Peppin, in case you want it. Its big enough for inclusion, but probably isnt that important of a place.


quote:

Anyway here is the map with the Minnesota River. It actually runs all the way to the MN-South Dakota border, but the western most sections, although fairly wide are not that deep. The sections I've drawn in are wide, and also include a lot of bogs and lakes, in the river bottoms.

I think I'll stay with only the first half of the Minnesota River depicted (see post #604), and no Pepin Lake hexside. I can't find the latter on any of my USA maps.

(in reply to Astarix)
Post #: 620
RE: MWiF Map Review - America - 5/25/2008 10:22:29 AM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
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From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Astarix
Those 2 hexes to the NE of the U.S. Virgin Islands are the British Virgin Islands.

In our map they are included in what is called British Antilles.

(in reply to Astarix)
Post #: 621
RE: MWiF Map Review - America - 5/25/2008 10:26:28 AM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joshuatree

I've got a question about the Dutch West Indies and St. Eustatius. It says (NED) ... isn't that supposed to be "Dutch" or "Netherlands", "Neth" ?  Because "NED" is derived from the Dutch "Nederland".

It was decided a long time ago to use a consistent set of abbreviations for countries, and that this abbreviation would be 3 letter long.
We took the codes from the international Olympic Committee here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_IOC_country_codes.
For those who had not code, we made it up.
For Major Powers, we kept the codes from WiF FE (Fr, CW, USA, USSR, Ch, It, Ja, Ge).

(in reply to Joshuatree)
Post #: 622
RE: MWiF Map Review - America - 5/25/2008 11:48:07 AM   
marcuswatney

 

Posts: 279
Joined: 2/28/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Norman42

-St. Martin was the administrative center for the French Antillies(and a beautiful isle I might add, cruised there a few years back and the combined French/Dutch culture is truly unique), so I'd recommend changing St. Bartholemew, which in 1940 was very insignificant other then a few plantations, to St. Martin.  The fact that the Netherlands administrated part of the isle isn't important overall, the French took over security functions for the isle from 1919 onwards.

According to the CIA World Fact Book's entry on St Barthélemy: "France repurchased the island in 1878 and placed it under the administration of Guadeloupe. St. Barthelemy retained its free port status along with various Swedish appelations such as Swedish street and town names, and the three-crown symbol on the coat of arms. In 2003, the populace of the island voted to secede from Guadeloupe and in 2007, the island became a French overseas collectivity."

My least favourite rule in WiF is the intrinsic defence strength against invasion, which may be fine along the coast of Europe but is completely senseless when it comes to barely-inhabited islands in the Pacific and Caribbean. The amount of effort these places take to capture, if you are not blessed with marines, is ridiculous. That is why I am always keen to agglomerate isolated islands into larger territories with at least one port which will determine their ownership without the need to invade.

For this reason, for game-play it does make sense that St Barthélemy be part of the Gaudeloupe territory as it was historically, falling upon the capture of Basse-Terre ... and that St Eustatius be part of the Netherlands Antilles (labelled Dutch West Indies), from where it was administered historically.

I strongly approve of the way that the Cayman Islands are shown as being part of Jamaica rather than owned by the CW, and suggest we need more of this.

< Message edited by marcuswatney -- 5/25/2008 11:55:48 AM >

(in reply to Norman42)
Post #: 623
RE: MWiF Map Review - America - 5/25/2008 11:53:23 AM   
Astarix

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 5/20/2008
From: Hampton, Minnesota
Status: offline 		Patrice,

Just make sure you move the River to the hexside I show above.  When I described it, I made a mistake in indicating which Hexside it starts in.  If left the way it shows in #604 it will be incorrect.  Not including Peppin is fine, its basically about a 60 mile long depression that the Mississippi runs through.  Its narrow enough that a lot of maps don't show it.  I just thought about it after reading another post about the lack of lakes in Minnesota.  Other than Rainy Lake its the only other one that is long enough to fill an entire hexside.

Jason


(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 624
RE: MWiF Map Review - America - 5/25/2008 12:34:20 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Astarix
Just make sure you move the River to the hexside I show above.  When I described it, I made a mistake in indicating which Hexside it starts in.  If left the way it shows in #604 it will be incorrect.

Would it be good like that Jason ?




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(in reply to Astarix)
Post #: 625
RE: MWiF Map Review - America - 5/25/2008 1:24:20 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marcuswatney
quote:

ORIGINAL: Norman42

-St. Martin was the administrative center for the French Antillies(and a beautiful isle I might add, cruised there a few years back and the combined French/Dutch culture is truly unique), so I'd recommend changing St. Bartholemew, which in 1940 was very insignificant other then a few plantations, to St. Martin.  The fact that the Netherlands administrated part of the isle isn't important overall, the French took over security functions for the isle from 1919 onwards.

According to the CIA World Fact Book's entry on St Barthélemy: "France repurchased the island in 1878 and placed it under the administration of Guadeloupe. St. Barthelemy retained its free port status along with various Swedish appelations such as Swedish street and town names, and the three-crown symbol on the coat of arms. In 2003, the populace of the island voted to secede from Guadeloupe and in 2007, the island became a French overseas collectivity."

My least favourite rule in WiF is the intrinsic defence strength against invasion, which may be fine along the coast of Europe but is completely senseless when it comes to barely-inhabited islands in the Pacific and Caribbean. The amount of effort these places take to capture, if you are not blessed with marines, is ridiculous. That is why I am always keen to agglomerate isolated islands into larger territories with at least one port which will determine their ownership without the need to invade.

For this reason, for game-play it does make sense that St Barthélemy be part of the Gaudeloupe territory as it was historically, falling upon the capture of Basse-Terre ... and that St Eustatius be part of the Netherlands Antilles (labelled Dutch West Indies), from where it was administered historically.

I strongly approve of the way that the Cayman Islands are shown as being part of Jamaica rather than owned by the CW, and suggest we need more of this.

This is already the case for St Eustatius as part of the Dutch West Indies.
We could do the same for that hex where St Martin & St Barthelemy by making it part of Guadeloupe.

This would remove the "French Antilles" label from the map, and make this hex conquered by the conquest of Basse-Terre.
I looked in the data file, and this hex 95,325 is the only hex belonging to the "French Antilles" Territory, thus this Territory (#30 in the countries list) would disappear.
Moreover, the French Antilles refers to the four territories presently under French sovereignty in the Caribbean: the two overseas departments of Guadeloupe and Martinique, plus the two overseas collectivities of Saint Martin and Saint-Barthélemy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Antilles). If Saint Martin and Saint-Barthélemy were governed from Guadeloupe (which is supported by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guadeloupe), then it is true that we do not need it.

Another solution would be to delete the Martinique & Guadeloupe Territories, and make them part of the French Antilles that would contain Guadeloupe, Martinique and Saint Martin & Saint-Barthélemy, but I'm not sure that the French Antilles were ar real world entity, so maybe it is best to simply go with the first solution.

Other opinions ?

(in reply to marcuswatney)
Post #: 626
RE: MWiF Map Review - America - 5/25/2008 3:10:08 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Astarix
Also, I don't know if its worth the effort or not, but you might want to consider adding the city of Fargo. The Twin Cities of the North, Fargo-Morhead was an important rail junction and central collection and shipping point for Wheat, Sugar Beats and Corn. The Sugar Beats are processed locally and the Corn and Wheat were shipped to Minneapolis for milling or to Duluth and Superior for shipment east across the lakes. 1940 census for the immediate cities and suburbs was 80,000.

3 railroads ran west through those towns. The Great Northern, The Northern Pacific and the Chicago-Milwaukee-St.Paul & Pacific. And of course the rail line that runs North-South on the North Dakota side of the Red River up to Winnepeg. If you were to add Fargo-Moorhead, I would put it in the northern half of the southern most river hex of the Red River and move the rail line to go through the same hex. Fargo is and was the largetst city in North Dakota.

I added Fargo as a named location (too small for city status), and reworked the railway around it. By looking at various USA maps, it is true that it is better that way, and still similar to how it is in WiF FE. Would it be good that way ?




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Astarix)
Post #: 627
RE: MWiF Map Review - America - 5/25/2008 5:18:32 PM   
marcuswatney

 

Posts: 279
Joined: 2/28/2006
Status: offline 		Patrice, I would go with the first solution.  Guadeloupe and Martinique were large enough that one would not necessarily be influenced by the other.  It is reasonable to continue with the present definition of separate territories for those two, but just add St Barthélemy to the Guadeloupe territory.

Hey! You get to reduce your number of territories by one again!  Always a desirable objective...

(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 628
RE: MWiF Map Review - America - 5/25/2008 5:23:43 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marcuswatney

Patrice, I would go with the first solution.  Guadeloupe and Martinique were large enough that one would not necessarily be influenced by the other.  It is reasonable to continue with the present definition of separate territories for those two, but just add St Barthélemy to the Guadeloupe territory.

Hey! You get to reduce your number of territories by one again!  Always a desirable objective...

If Steve agrees, I'll do that.
This hex is the only hex of this Territory, and history back this change up too, so there is no reason not to do it. There is only one thing to take into account, this is that this is a French Territory, and French Territories must be handled somewhere in the code for Vichy / Free France.

By the way, I still have had no "Go" for the "Territory of New Guinea" change (that would also reduce the number of Territories in the game).

(in reply to marcuswatney)
Post #: 629
RE: MWiF Map Review - America - 5/25/2008 6:54:26 PM   
Joshuatree

 

Posts: 507
Joined: 12/30/2007
From: Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joshuatree

I've got a question about the Dutch West Indies and St. Eustatius. It says (NED) ... isn't that supposed to be "Dutch" or "Netherlands", "Neth" ?  Because "NED" is derived from the Dutch "Nederland".

It was decided a long time ago to use a consistent set of abbreviations for countries, and that this abbreviation would be 3 letter long.
We took the codes from the international Olympic Committee here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_IOC_country_codes.
For those who had not code, we made it up.
For Major Powers, we kept the codes from WiF FE (Fr, CW, USA, USSR, Ch, It, Ja, Ge).


Ah, I see. Thank you for clearing that up.

(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 630
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